Let me get this straight. The residents of Bridgeport are upset that a ....freight yard.... is going to be turned into a ...more modernized indoor maintenance facility? Lol

34 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Looking back it wasn't "legal" that was used, my bad. The larger point, besides the one word, is correct. You aren't going to NIMBY away a project that a railroad wants. Maybe you get a concession or two for window dressing, but the larger project WILL happen if groups like Metra, BNSF, Amtrak, etc want it to happen. The law was quite literally written by them, for them. Any anger gymnastics are a waste.

lol, in my experience, being a nimby is people showing up to a planning meeting to oppose an old folk's home, not being mad about putting an industrial site smack dab in the middle of a residential neighborhood. This isn't the 1950s anymore as much as you and Trump may wish it still was.

5 minutes ago, nrockway said:

lol, in my experience, being a nimby is people showing up to a planning meeting to oppose an old folk's home, not being mad about putting an industrial site smack dab in the middle of a residential neighborhood. This isn't the 1950s anymore as much as you and Trump may wish it still was.

You have lost your mind.

5 minutes ago, Paulie4Pres said:

Let me get this straight. The residents of Bridgeport are upset that a ....freight yard.... is going to be turned into a ...more modernized indoor maintenance facility? Lol

Pretty much, although you’re missing that the levels of activity/pollution (mostly light and noise, potentially some air) will increase exponentially, and that the process is coming along quickly despite the fact that details are being shared slowly.

1 hour ago, nrockway said:

lol, in my experience, being a nimby is people showing up to a planning meeting to oppose an old folk's home, not being mad about putting an industrial site smack dab in the middle of a residential neighborhood. This isn't the 1950s anymore as much as you and Trump may wish it still was.

It’s also not exactly Chernobyl or Bhopal.

Josh Nelson talks about the public meeting on Fox 32.

The first half of this Sox Machine video gives a good overview of the Amtrak and (potentially) new stadium plans. It includes a couple of maps of the rail area between Lots C and G as well as the Amtrak and BNSF properties at 14th St. to highlight the areas being impacted (though they don't include a map of the 2nd rail yard parcel Amtrak is looking to utilize between 26th and 29th St at Canal St.).

Jim and Josh also give a pretty good overview of the Sox ownership sale dynamic between Reinsdorf and Ishbia and why that has led to a little disconnect on White Sox involvement in this effort. They also make reference to public meetings on Parks and Rec and how those always went sideways.😄

A few thoughts from the 2 videos above:

• In the first video, Nelson doesn't say he thinks the project should be stopped. He says that Amtrak needs to do a better job of reaching out to the community to discuss their concerns and need to be better prepared for the next meeting.
  

• He very succinctly sums up the mixed feelings about all of this: The possibility of building a PNC/Petco-type park with a skyline backdrop and along an expanding riverwalk is very exciting. But, then there's the issue of what they would be leaving behind in Bridgeport.
  

• He floats the idea that they could possibly add a BNSF Metra stop at the site if they build a stadium there. Wow, that would be awesome. That's a direct pipeline to LaGrange, Western Springs, etc. and southern DuPage all the way out to Aurora. The Metra Southwest Service runs along those tracks too and that services SW Suburbs like Orland Park.

Look at the CN rail yard in Harvey. Put that right next to Armor Park and the neighborhood there? A 4 story train warehouse right on 35th street? As Hawk might say, you have got to be bleepin' me

Consider the 120 year history of the Daniel Burnham designed Armor Park (put a train yard right next to that) and the historical home of the White Sox home of their defeat of the Chicago Cubs at South Side park in 1906. Baseball is largely tied to tradition. There is no tradition at the train yard.

The Petco Park analogy is absurd. The views from the park are largely unimportant, as they are at Wrigley. An open air stadium no longer makes sense in Chicago. The canal is a joke and the condition may get worse over time. (see the ongoing Brandon lock project which hopefully will prevent flying Asian carp and other invasive species from getting into the Great Lakes). This isn't the Three rivers. It's a gross, mucky, shallow canal that still gets sewage overflow.

What does Ishbia, a Detroit native and Winnetka resident, know (or care) about the South side? Nothing.

Why did/would the ISFA sell anything to Ishbia? It is clearly against their interests. Oh, also bought and paid for.

Why are majority stock owners including Mellody Hobson Lucas and the Reinsdorfs allowing this guy to do whatever he wants? I guess they are bought and paid for like the Mayor and Alderman.

Look, this entire thing is driven by an entitled billionaire that is propelling his boyhood dream to own a baseball franchise and a new stadium and now he is proceeding like a runaway freight train.

I suspect that with all the money Ishbia has, he has hired a few shills to promote this. Nice try with the sale job, but I'm not buying it.

It does appear that no one can stop this guy and I am aware of that. But it doesn't mean I am going to hold back my feelings about this as someone who has been a White Sox fan all my life and knows Chicago.

Edited 3 hours ago3 hr by tray

5 minutes ago, tray said:

Look at the CN rail yard in Harvey. Put that right next to Armor Park and the neighborhood there? A 4 story train warehouse right on 35th street? As Hawk might say, you have got to be bleepin' me

Consider the 120 year history of the Daniel Burnham designed Armor Park (put a train yard right next to that) and the historical home of the White Sox including their defeat of the Chicago Cubs at South side park in 1906. Baseball is largely tied to tradition. There is no tradition at the train yard.

The Petco Park analogy is absurd. The views from the park are largely unimportant, as they are at Wrigley. An open air stadium doesn't make sense in Chicago. The canal is a joke and the condition may get worse over time. (see the ongoing Brandon lock project which hopefully will prevent SAsian carp and other invasive species from getting into the Great Lakes). This isn't the Three rivers. It's a gross canal that still gets sewage overflow.

What does Ishbia, a Detroit native and Winnetka resident, know (or care) about the South side? Nothing.

Why did/would the ISFA sell anything to Ishbia? It is clearly against their interests. Oh, also bought and poaid for.

Why are majority stock owners including Mellody Hobson Lucas and the Reinsdorfs allowing this guy to do whatever he wants? I guess they are bought and paid for like the Mayor and Alderman.

Look, this entire thing is driven by an entitled billionaire that is propelling his boyhood dream to own a baseball franchise and a new stadium and now he is proceeding like a runaway freight train.

I suspect that with all the money Ishbia has, he has hired a few shills to promote this. Nice try with the sale job, but I'm not buying it.

It does appear that no one can stop this guy and I am aware of that.

I can only speak for myself in this matter but all I care about is what he does for the White Sox.

Period, end of story.

Anything else is of little to no concern of mine.

I don't care where he's from, what businesses he owns, what his political feelings are or what religion he is.

If he's willing to invest the time and most importantly the money to reverse the rot that has infused in this franchise from top to bottom over the last almost 20 years, I'm all for the guy 100%...no make that 110%

Hopefully there will be an attorney or two representing fans and residents opposed to this. Right now this looks like a one sided ass-kicking. Lay down and take it from this guy, right?

2 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I can only speak for myself in this matter but all I care about is what he does for the White Sox.

Period, end of story.

Anything else is of little to no concern of mine.

I don't care where he's from, what businesses he owns, what his political feelings are or what religion he is.

If he's willing to invest the time and most importantly the money to reverse the rot that has infused in this franchise from top to bottom over the last almost 20 years, I'm all for the guy 100%...no make that 110%

What did this billionaire do at the trade deadline to fund (in his way to borrow/finance) acquisition of two pitchers at the trade deadline to help this team?

This is ALL about the billionaire. Watch how much it costs to get to the train yard, buy tickets and concessions.

2 minutes ago, tray said:

What did this billionaire do at the trade deadline to fund (in his way to borrow/finance) acquisition of two pitchers at the trade deadline to help this team?

This is ALL about the billionaire. Watch how much it costs to get to the train yard, buy tickets and concessions.

😢😭

20 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Honestly? A few of you need to read up on property law and how much influence the railroads had on things like immement domain and the legal authority has to seize private property and call it "improvement" so it's perfectly legal. It's been codified by the Supreme Court in recent decades too.

If a railroad wants to do something it is legally near impossible to stop.

Excellent point and factually true, then toss in that the funding is Federal and in place.

27 minutes ago, tray said:

Look at the CN rail yard in Harvey. Put that right next to Armor Park and the neighborhood there? A 4 story train warehouse right on 35th street? As Hawk might say, you have got to be bleepin' me

Consider the 120 year history of the Daniel Burnham designed Armor Park (put a train yard right next to that) and the historical home of the White Sox home of their defeat of the Chicago Cubs at South Side park in 1906. Baseball is largely tied to tradition. There is no tradition at the train yard.

The Petco Park analogy is absurd. The views from the park are largely unimportant, as they are at Wrigley. An open air stadium no longer makes sense in Chicago. The canal is a joke and the condition may get worse over time. (see the ongoing Brandon lock project which hopefully will prevent flying Asian carp and other invasive species from getting into the Great Lakes). This isn't the Three rivers. It's a gross, mucky, shallow canal that still gets sewage overflow.

What does Ishbia, a Detroit native and Winnetka resident, know (or care) about the South side? Nothing.

Why did/would the ISFA sell anything to Ishbia? It is clearly against their interests. Oh, also bought and paid for.

Why are majority stock owners including Mellody Hobson Lucas and the Reinsdorfs allowing this guy to do whatever he wants? I guess they are bought and paid for like the Mayor and Alderman.

Look, this entire thing is driven by an entitled billionaire that is propelling his boyhood dream to own a baseball franchise and a new stadium and now he is proceeding like a runaway freight train.

I suspect that with all the money Ishbia has, he has hired a few shills to promote this. Nice try with the sale job, but I'm not buying it.

It does appear that no one can stop this guy and I am aware of that. But it doesn't mean I am going to hold back my feelings about this as someone who has been a White Sox fan all my life and knows Chicago.

It is laughable that you think Jerry Reinsdorf, Mr PE Real Estate King himself, isn't 110% on board with this if it is happening under his watch. He'll I am waiting for Ludacris himself to pop out and confirm.

In the end the Amtrak maintenance yard property is getting sold and relocated with or without Ishbia's involvement.

18 hours ago, nrockway said:

lol, in my experience, being a nimby is people showing up to a planning meeting to oppose an old folk's home, not being mad about putting an industrial site smack dab in the middle of a residential neighborhood. This isn't the 1950s anymore as much as you and Trump may wish it still was.

The nimbyest post of all time actually

21 minutes ago, bmags said:

The nimbyest post of all time actually

For some unknown reason, liberals now hate zoning and love letting real estate developers do whatever they want, thinking it's like a 'progressive' point of view. Reagan and friends did a number on people's brains.

3 minutes ago, nrockway said:

For some unknown reason, liberals now hate zoning and love letting real estate developers do whatever they want, thinking it's like a 'progressive' point of view. Reagan and friends did a number on people's brains.

It's def an interesting area of politics with a lot of brain rot on both ends. In general development is good. There are cases where it's too much too fast, but in general without development cities would decay over time or at best stagnate. I've been part of it for the last 20 years of my life first in Brooklyn now in Seattle, it is disruptive at times, but I sure wouldn't want to live in neighborhoods going the other way. I saw Detroit, Flint, and the entire SE MI area depopulate growing up you don't want that!

51 minutes ago, nrockway said:

For some unknown reason, liberals now hate zoning and love letting real estate developers do whatever they want, thinking it's like a 'progressive' point of view. Reagan and friends did a number on people's brains.

I have to give you this. If you don't have an argument, you sure can make up one to get mad about. Again, this isn't about zoning, planning, or anything else typical. This is property law as it applies to railroads, who have been granted near absolute power in this country by virtue of rewriting property law in the late 19th century to seize land to go cross continent and create company towns. You can turn it into a values judgment if you like, but I am stating facts and history here, from first hand experience. My hometown is on the tail end of almost 20 years of dealing with a railroad expansion where despite sitting through dozens of community meetings, studies, environmenal impact statements, etc, they were presented with much smaller impact alternatives, they went forward with exactly what they said they would seizing a few hundred houses and properties through a center swath of town, putting up hideous walls as a barrier along the route so they could increase speeds, closing off a couple of dozen crossings, including a few vital routes for fire and emergency response teams with no care for anything but their bottom line over any community concerns, including literal life and death ones. This wasn't a unique experience either. Towns all up and down this corridor saw the exact same thing play out, regardless of political affiliation, socioeconomic background, or anything other than being in the way of the ideal path.

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

It's def an interesting area of politics with a lot of brain rot on both ends. In general development is good. There are cases where it's too much too fast, but in general without development cities would decay over time or at best stagnate. I've been part of it for the last 20 years of my life first in Brooklyn now in Seattle, it is disruptive at times, but I sure wouldn't want to live in neighborhoods going the other way. I saw Detroit, Flint, and the entire SE MI area depopulate growing up you don't want that!

It's a rough half century in the rust belt.

In other stadium news it looks like the Rays are finally going to get their new stadium in Tampa just south of Raymond James Stadium.

Edited just now1 min by The Mighty Mite

3 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

In other stadium news it looks like the Rays are finally going to get their new stadium in Tampa just south of Raymond James Stadium.

Yea I saw that, looks pretty nice for them. Doubt they will draw many more but having a real air conditioned dome is a big issue and they finally will have it from what I read.