caulfield12 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) https://nypost.com/2025/06/17/sports/red-sox-internal-dysfunction-exposed-after-rafael-devers-trade/ https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/article/inside-the-absolute-s-show-that-led-to-the-boston-red-soxs-trade-of-rafael-devers-220018400.html The coaching staff has grown frustrated with the state of player development, specifically how much emphasis is placed on swing mechanics and hitting data, often at the expense of fundamentals. That imbalance, coaches believe, traces back to the Bloom era and has only accelerated under Breslow. One example cited is rookie Kristian Campbell, who has made a string of routine errors at second base since being called up. He’s not alone; as a team, the Red Sox lead all of baseball with 64 errors, one more than the Colorado Rockies and 17 more than the third-place Los Angeles Angels. Another error came during Roman Anthony’s debut, when he misplayed a ball in right field. The next day, Anthony was sent out to run outfield drills in front of the media. One team source described the message as deliberate: “This is what we still have to teach, at the big-league level.” Edited June 17 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrockway Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Helping out? Name another best player/star player in MLB history who switched positions twice in a season because the team demanded he do so. Lying shouldn't be rewarded. Being the dh isn't "switching positions", it simply isn't a position. If he didn't want to play first base or dh, he should've played better defense at third base. Bregman is also hitting better this season. It was inevitable he'd move to first base and he already got paid so there isn't a financial incentive for him to play a more challenging position. If it's about racking up stats, you rack up more WAR playing 1b than dh. This Devers saga is weird. The guy being paid hundreds of millions of dollars to play a game, it's not like it's an unreasonable request to...stand near a base and sometimes catch the ball as its thrown to you. Diva behavior. I think it's funny when things don't work out for the Red Sox though. Remember when they had Mookie Betts? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 25 minutes ago, nrockway said: Being the dh isn't "switching positions", it simply isn't a position. If he didn't want to play first base or dh, he should've played better defense at third base. Bregman is also hitting better this season. It was inevitable he'd move to first base and he already got paid so there isn't a financial incentive for him to play a more challenging position. If it's about racking up stats, you rack up more WAR playing 1b than dh. This Devers saga is weird. The guy being paid hundreds of millions of dollars to play a game, it's not like it's an unreasonable request to...stand near a base and sometimes catch the ball as its thrown to you. Diva behavior. I think it's funny when things don't work out for the Red Sox though. Remember when they had Mookie Betts? They should have started transitioning him to 1B in Spring Training (yes, I know Casas was there but they were trying to trade him and guys need a day off anyway sometimes). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) I don’t really blame Devers here and don’t feel sorry for the Red Sox. They told him you’re terrible defensively, keep the glove at home (it was pretty public) and then they go crawling back to him later. Edit: I also feel like if they kept him, he would transition to 1B not mid-season. Off-season and Spring Training which I bet happens with SF. Edited June 17 by Bob Sacamano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 53 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: https://nypost.com/2025/06/17/sports/red-sox-internal-dysfunction-exposed-after-rafael-devers-trade/ https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/article/inside-the-absolute-s-show-that-led-to-the-boston-red-soxs-trade-of-rafael-devers-220018400.html The coaching staff has grown frustrated with the state of player development, specifically how much emphasis is placed on swing mechanics and hitting data, often at the expense of fundamentals. That imbalance, coaches believe, traces back to the Bloom era and has only accelerated under Breslow. One example cited is rookie Kristian Campbell, who has made a string of routine errors at second base since being called up. He’s not alone; as a team, the Red Sox lead all of baseball with 64 errors, one more than the Colorado Rockies and 17 more than the third-place Los Angeles Angels. Another error came during Roman Anthony’s debut, when he misplayed a ball in right field. The next day, Anthony was sent out to run outfield drills in front of the media. One team source described the message as deliberate: “This is what we still have to teach, at the big-league level.” Campbell was a horrible defender in college. He is not a MLB caliber infielder - saw hes basically the worst defender in baseball. Red Sox ask their superstar 3rd baseman to move off a spot to "maximize the defensive abilities of the roster" and then stick a bad outfielder at second base and extend him. Westeddy can't name a single star in MLB history who moved off their position twice in a season but yet somehow calls to question devers leadership because he wasnt happy about it. All the while, unhappy devers was carrying the entire red sox offense. Sometimes I wonder if Eddy is watching baseball in hopes of catching a glimpse of the GM in the owners box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) 50 minutes ago, nrockway said: Being the dh isn't "switching positions", it simply isn't a position. If he didn't want to play first base or dh, he should've played better defense at third base. Bregman is also hitting better this season. It was inevitable he'd move to first base and he already got paid so there isn't a financial incentive for him to play a more challenging position. If it's about racking up stats, you rack up more WAR playing 1b than dh. This Devers saga is weird. The guy being paid hundreds of millions of dollars to play a game, it's not like it's an unreasonable request to...stand near a base and sometimes catch the ball as its thrown to you. Diva behavior. I think it's funny when things don't work out for the Red Sox though. Remember when they had Mookie Betts? Yes, being a DH is a position and its actually very challenging to do for career position players. There was nothing diva about it. The guys devers needs to trust with his career lied to his face repeatedly and then put him in a very uncomfortable media situation with zero warning. One of the "greatest" (to some) leaders in baseball history - at least cited as such - refused to move off Shortstop to allow the best shortstop in MLB to play there. Edited June 17 by Look at Ray Ray Run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 24 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Campbell was a horrible defender in college. He is not a MLB caliber infielder - saw hes basically the worst defender in baseball. Red Sox ask their superstar 3rd baseman to move off a spot to "maximize the defensive abilities of the roster" and then stick a bad outfielder at second base and extend him. Westeddy can't name a single star in MLB history who moved off their position twice in a season but yet somehow calls to question devers leadership because he wasnt happy about it. All the while, unhappy devers was carrying the entire red sox offense. Sometimes I wonder if Eddy is watching baseball in hopes of catching a glimpse of the GM in the owners box. Yeah, I've got better things to do than research some "gotcha" question you just threw at me. Very recently, Kris Bryant played all over the diamond, along with Zobrist. Pete Rose did it back in the day. I suppose they don't count because .... reasons. LOL. Carrying the offense? Hyperbole much? Devers is 2nd on his team in offensive bWAR behind Bregman, and Narvaez and Duran aren't far behind. Yes, Devers is a crybaby, and a clubhouse cancer. It's not like the Red Sox talked to one team and traded him. That paltry return is what he's worth. The Giants just picked up a hitter who knew he was bad defensively, did nothing about it, then basically went crying to TMZ when they asked him to DH, then play 1B in an emergency situation. If Devers was the DH during the Marathon bombing, he probably would have used the "it's our fucking city" opportunity to say, "It's my fucking DH position!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 It was weird going to bat so hard for Getz. I have no logical reason he should be going to bat for the Red Sox front office but here we are 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 18 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: It was weird going to bat so hard for Getz. I have no logical reason he should be going to bat for the Red Sox front office but here we are When someone has climbed up on a cross it can be hard to get them down. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: It was weird going to bat so hard for Getz. I have no logical reason he should be going to bat for the Red Sox front office but here we are If you want to talk about a snakebit organization, the Red Sox caught the bouquet on that one. I've already said they communicated poorly with Devers. It also is coming out that their development is taking a huge step backwards. They blew up their last core, and it's only a matter of time before this one is scattered. Their front office appears to be everything we accuse the White Sox FO of being. But there can be no nuance, here. One must capitulate and completely agree on every point, or else we're front office lapdogs. None of Devers' grand-children or great-grandchildren will have to work a single day of their lives. I don't really feel compelled to get seethingly angry because some 28-year-old dude is asked to do a slightly different job for 4 months at his $30M paycheck. Edited June 17 by WestEddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 9 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: When someone has climbed up on a cross it can be hard to get them down. Pro and Anti Devers. It's a phenomenon that anything said on the internet must be defended to one's death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 9 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Pro and Anti Devers. It's a phenomenon that anything said on the internet must be defended to one's death. You give me young person energy but I'm pretty sure you're around my age give or take 5 either way. Some things really just don't need to be argued imo. My posting has evolved tremendously in my 20 years here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 17 minutes ago, WestEddy said: If you want to talk about a snakebit organization, the Red Sox caught the bouquet on that one. I've already said they communicated poorly with Devers. It also is coming out that their development is taking a huge step backwards. They blew up their last core, and it's only a matter of time before this one is scattered. Their front office appears to be everything we accuse the White Sox FO of being. But there can be no nuance, here. One must capitulate and completely agree on every point, or else we're front office lapdogs. None of Devers' grand-children or great-grandchildren will have to work a single day of their lives. I don't really feel compelled to get seethingly angry because some 28-year-old dude is asked to do a slightly different job for 4 months at his $30M paycheck. You are compelled to get seethingly angry when anyone dares talk poorly about this organization. GTFOH with your self righteous bullshit like you aren’t the most hot and bothered member of this site at anytime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 12 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: You give me young person energy but I'm pretty sure you're around my age give or take 5 either way. Some things really just don't need to be argued imo. My posting has evolved tremendously in my 20 years here. I'm 61. I know I've set myself up as a person who can be trolled. I was challenged over this: Quote I think it's been reported they wanted him and his BS away from the rookie core coming up. I believe that this was the first I weighed in on this string. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Yes, being a DH is a position and its actually very challenging to do for career position players. There was nothing diva about it. The guys devers needs to trust with his career lied to his face repeatedly and then put him in a very uncomfortable media situation with zero warning. One of the "greatest" (to some) leaders in baseball history - at least cited as such - refused to move off Shortstop to allow the best shortstop in MLB to play there. Plenty of players HATED DHing and never wanted to do it. Some were even beloved White Sox. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Plenty of players HATED DHing and ever wanted to do it. Some were even beloved White Sox. Frank took a lot of heat for not wanting to DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 7 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Frank took a lot of heat for not wanting to DH. [DING] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 10 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: You are compelled to get seethingly angry when anyone dares talk poorly about this organization. GTFOH with your self righteous bullshit like you aren’t the most hot and bothered member of this site at anytime No, it's more when people barrel in and act like jerks because I'm not joining them in being pissed over something insignificant. Any sports talk anywhere is pretty miserable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 9 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Frank took a lot of heat for not wanting to DH. And I know Sox fans who will always consider him a man-baby and a clubhouse cancer. I saw his point, but it's not abnormal for fans to get pissed at a player for going to the media with their grievances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 11 minutes ago, WestEddy said: And I know Sox fans who will always consider him a man-baby and a clubhouse cancer. I saw his point, but it's not abnormal for fans to get pissed at a player for going to the media with their grievances. 29 minutes ago, WestEddy said: If you want to talk about a snakebit organization, the Red Sox caught the bouquet on that one. I've already said they communicated poorly with Devers. It also is coming out that their development is taking a huge step backwards. They blew up their last core, and it's only a matter of time before this one is scattered. Their front office appears to be everything we accuse the White Sox FO of being. But there can be no nuance, here. One must capitulate and completely agree on every point, or else we're front office lapdogs. None of Devers' grand-children or great-grandchildren will have to work a single day of their lives. I don't really feel compelled to get seethingly angry because some 28-year-old dude is asked to do a slightly different job for 4 months at his $30M paycheck. These are....contradicting thoughts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 12 minutes ago, Tony said: These are....contradicting thoughts. And I didn't get seethingly angry over Frank Thomas getting asked to DH. I think it's reasonable for a team to ask a player who isn't good defensively at his position to move to an easier position, or DH. I also think it's reasonable for a player to push back because Frank reasoned that being on the field kept his head in the game better. I could be misremembering, but I didn't feel Frank caused a huge rift over answering questions in interviews where he stated a preference for playing 1B while he was actually DHing. When a player starts arguing about being lied to, or whatnot, I also don't think it's unreasonable for fans to get tired of high-paid athletes complaining about the kind of things we all deal with on a daily basis for a lot less money. I also don't think it's unreasonable for anyone to side with the player. That doesn't preclude me from having an opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 54 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Frank took a lot of heat for not wanting to DH. Very true. Him not being willing to move to DH cost the Sox signing Mark McGuire according to Jack McDowell. Eventually he did of course when he started to have some injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champagne030 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said: It was weird going to bat so hard for Getz. I have no logical reason he should be going to bat for the Red Sox front office but here we are Yeah, he likes to plant flags in strange places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 37 minutes ago, WestEddy said: And I didn't get seethingly angry over Frank Thomas getting asked to DH. I think it's reasonable for a team to ask a player who isn't good defensively at his position to move to an easier position, or DH. I also think it's reasonable for a player to push back because Frank reasoned that being on the field kept his head in the game better. I could be misremembering, but I didn't feel Frank caused a huge rift over answering questions in interviews where he stated a preference for playing 1B while he was actually DHing. When a player starts arguing about being lied to, or whatnot, I also don't think it's unreasonable for fans to get tired of high-paid athletes complaining about the kind of things we all deal with on a daily basis for a lot less money. I also don't think it's unreasonable for anyone to side with the player. That doesn't preclude me from having an opinion. I think it's much easier for a fan base to get upset with a player who is complaining to the media about a position switch...when they aren't performing. While I don't follow the Red Sox on a daily basis, from the outside looking in, it seems as though Devers was upset the franchise told him one thing and did another. I don't care how much it happens in other walks of life, it sucks when you're a baseball player or a plumber. The biggest thing, for me, is that while Devers may have not preferred to play DH and made that known...he started every game for the Red Sox this season, and is in the middle of having one of his best seasons. He may not have been thrilled with the position the team put him in, but he's gone to work everyday and performed. As a fan, that's what I want out of my franchise player. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 34 minutes ago, Tony said: I think it's much easier for a fan base to get upset with a player who is complaining to the media about a position switch...when they aren't performing. While I don't follow the Red Sox on a daily basis, from the outside looking in, it seems as though Devers was upset the franchise told him one thing and did another. I don't care how much it happens in other walks of life, it sucks when you're a baseball player or a plumber. The biggest thing, for me, is that while Devers may have not preferred to play DH and made that known...he started every game for the Red Sox this season, and is in the middle of having one of his best seasons. He may not have been thrilled with the position the team put him in, but he's gone to work everyday and performed. As a fan, that's what I want out of my franchise player. This. Look, I don't care if you make $7.25 an hour, or $40 million a year, having your employer lie to you and then publicly s%*# on you isn't cool. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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