Pitchers throwing so much harder today . . . are they?

[vilehoopster]

So on last nights Dodger's game thread, Southsider posted this:

"The issue is that the average dude out of the back of a ML Bullpen in 2025 throws harder than all of those dudes.  In fact, almost every starter in baseball can bring a standard Nolan Ryan 95 mph fastball, or better.  The league average is just under 95 today.  20 years ago it was about 90.  If we get back to the 1930s when guys were going 300 innings, it was expected  to be in the low 80's.  A sorry Nick Nastrini dropped into the Babe Ruth era would be the GOAT. It's about effort, not length in 2025.  There is a reason no one ever tried to get Usian Bolt to run 9.7 pace for 26 miles, and that is it is impossible.  It's the same with starters.  If you are going to throw harder, your outings will be shorter."

 

So here's my question about how all the pitchers are throwing so much harder today, and something I remember hearing and reading that seems to be completely forgotten nowadays. 

But wasn't the reason (somewhat sudden) for the increase in pitchers's speed/ mph not really from the fact that pitchers are throwing that much (any?) harder; but it is that MLB changed from where the pitching speed is being measured. It used to be that pitching ball speed was measured from in front of the plate, but now it is measured from when it leaves the pitcher's hand. 

I googled it and that is what happened, and the reason why where the ball mph was changed by MLB was to make the measuring more uniform. And some estimate that the ball slows down between 10 or more mph in that 60 feet. I googled it (take that for what you will)

So really, by doing that, MLB was maniputating a stat, trying to make it more dramatic under the guise of making the measuring of the stat more uniform; it's the pitching equivilant of juicing the ball or moving in the fences. 

So really, they're not throwing harder (or that much harder) today. And if Nolan Ryan had had his fastball mph measured out of his hand instead of a few feet in front of home plate, it's a pretty safe bet that he was throwing well over a 100 mph. 

[Snopek]

They’re measuring it differently, but that’s only part of it, because velocity has been increasing steadily for years.

Clearly a larger part of it is advanced strength, conditioning and training, with an emphasis on velocity. Athletes are stronger today.

I don’t think any of this is much of a mystery.

[Tony]

1. Yes. 

2. This isn't just about how fast they are throwing. It's about the volume of players doing it. For example, in this 2023 article by SI: 

Quote

 

Twenty-seven pitchers hit 100 mph in April, as many as pitchers did over the entire season 10 years ago.

The number of major league pitches clocked at 100 mph and faster more than tripled over three years, from 1,056 in 2019 to 3,348 last year. The rate continues to go up this season, as shown by this recent spike that includes the prorated total for ’23:

 

10-15 years ago, a guy hitting 100 MPH on the gun was still a rare occurrence. It doesn't feel that way in 2025, with as many players that do it now. And given that they've been using the same technology to track speed since 2007, there isn't really any dispute on the subject. 

Guys are throwing harder, and there are more of them than there ever has been. 

[joejoesox]

Just an honest question regarding PEDs.  

Are there any currently banned drugs that would aid recovery for pitching related injuries? Ptatc are there any drugs you wouldn't mind getting dropped off the banned substance list? Genuinely curious

I was reading about the pros and cons of different PEDs, and there are a lot of cons.  Especially if you use them on a regular basis

[kitekrazy]

1 hour ago, Snopek said:

They’re measuring it differently, but that’s only part of it, because velocity has been increasing steadily for years.

Clearly a larger part of it is advanced strength, conditioning and training, with an emphasis on velocity. Athletes are stronger today.

I don’t think any of this is much of a mystery.

But seem more brittle.

unfortunately they are doing this increased velocity thing in kid like age 10.

[WestEddy]

41 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

But seem more brittle.

unfortunately they are doing this increased velocity thing in kid like age 10.

But like conditioning, medical tests have also progressed. In years past, guys would continue to throw on a tweaked arm, lose a couple MPH, but learn a new pitch to stay in the game. It's not that they're more brittle, but there's more ways to find problems earlier, and we have methods to slow down and let some injuries heal before they worsen.

[chitownsportsfan]

56 minutes ago, joejoesox said:

Just an honest question regarding PEDs.  

Are there any currently banned drugs that would aid recovery for pitching related injuries? Ptatc are there any drugs you wouldn't mind getting dropped off the banned substance list? Genuinely curious

I was reading about the pros and cons of different PEDs, and there are a lot of cons.  Especially if you use them on a regular basis

The chemists are usually ahead of the testers. The designer PEDs these guys have access to have levels to them us regular joes will never get. I'd assume half the league is on some form of PED, even if it's just offseason use when it's easier to not get caught (Like when guys train out of country).

[southsider2k5]

50 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

But seem more brittle.

unfortunately they are doing this increased velocity thing in kid like age 10.

Are you more likely to get hurt if you jog a mile or run a sub 4 minute mile?

[vilehoopster]

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/the-measure-of-a-fastball-has-changed-over-the-years/

So, this article shows that some of the posts after mine are correct. That yes, where the pitch is measured from makes a huge difference, but using whatever stats/ tech, baseball has been able to get a universal velocity to measure back against/ over time, and this shows for various reasons stated in those above posts, that clearly pitching speed has/ and is increasing. 

The conclusion was that since 2008, pitching speed in the majors has increased from 91.9 in 2008 to 94.2 in 2023. 

But here's a question, is that because fewer pitches are off-speed and more pitchers are just throwing it fastballs?  Is that factored in?

[southsider2k5]

15 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/the-measure-of-a-fastball-has-changed-over-the-years/

So, this article shows that some of the posts after mine are correct. That yes, where the pitch is measured from makes a huge difference, but using whatever stats/ tech, baseball has been able to get a universal velocity to measure back against/ over time, and this shows for various reasons stated in those above posts, that clearly pitching speed has/ and is increasing. 

The conclusion was that since 2008, pitching speed in the majors has increased from 91.9 in 2008 to 94.2 in 2023. 

But here's a question, is that because fewer pitches are off-speed and more pitchers are just throwing it fastballs?  Is that factored in?

It's average fastball velocity, though all pitch speeds are up.

[almagest]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Are you more likely to get hurt if you jog a mile or run a sub 4 minute mile?

Both

[Tony]

18 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/the-measure-of-a-fastball-has-changed-over-the-years/

So, this article shows that some of the posts after mine are correct. That yes, where the pitch is measured from makes a huge difference, but using whatever stats/ tech, baseball has been able to get a universal velocity to measure back against/ over time, and this shows for various reasons stated in those above posts, that clearly pitching speed has/ and is increasing. 

The conclusion was that since 2008, pitching speed in the majors has increased from 91.9 in 2008 to 94.2 in 2023. 

But here's a question, is that because fewer pitches are off-speed and more pitchers are just throwing it fastballs?  Is that factored in?

Math was never my strength, but even I can understand that volume wouldn’t have anything to do with this equation. Just because there may be more fastballs thrown doesn’t result in a higher MPH average in baseball. 
 

As others have mentioned, it’s a combination of guys getting stronger, ramping up their arms at 13-14 years old, offseason programs, etc. Again, even 20 years ago, Freddy Garcia wasn’t going to Driveline in the offseason to refine his craft. Sports performance has seen a dramatic rise over the last decade plus and we’re seeing the results of that on the field. 

[Chimpton]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Are you more likely to get hurt if you jog a mile or run a sub 4 minute mile?

Personally if I tried to jog a mile an injury is very likely!

[champagne030]

26 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/the-measure-of-a-fastball-has-changed-over-the-years/

So, this article shows that some of the posts after mine are correct. That yes, where the pitch is measured from makes a huge difference, but using whatever stats/ tech, baseball has been able to get a universal velocity to measure back against/ over time, and this shows for various reasons stated in those above posts, that clearly pitching speed has/ and is increasing. 

The conclusion was that since 2008, pitching speed in the majors has increased from 91.9 in 2008 to 94.2 in 2023. 

But here's a question, is that because fewer pitches are off-speed and more pitchers are just throwing it fastballs?  Is that factored in?

I see you're still waiting on that apology. 

I'm sorry!

Getz still sucks.

Yes, max effort every pitch isn't good for the arm.

 

[ptatc]

5 hours ago, joejoesox said:

Just an honest question regarding PEDs.  

Are there any currently banned drugs that would aid recovery for pitching related injuries? Ptatc are there any drugs you wouldn't mind getting dropped off the banned substance list? Genuinely curious

I was reading about the pros and cons of different PEDs, and there are a lot of cons.  Especially if you use them on a regular basis

The MLB ped testing has progressed quite a bit and its much more difficult for players to use them. They have instituted blood tests where they compare one sample to the next. So they dont need to find a specific drug, they can look for testosterone levels and testosterone/epitestosterone ratios. This makes it difficult to cheat. Not impossible but much more difficult.

Part of the reason for banning them is the stress they put on your internal organs, especially the liver and heart.

I wouldn't allow any of them due to the health issues.

[ptatc]

4 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

The chemists are usually ahead of the testers. The designer PEDs these guys have access to have levels to them us regular joes will never get. I'd assume half the league is on some form of PED, even if it's just offseason use when it's easier to not get caught (Like when guys train out of country).

The advantage of thr current testing procedures is they dont need to test for specific drugs any longer. With the blood tests they check the testosterone levels and testosterone/epitestosterone ratios. The dont need to know what caused the change just that there was a change.

I'm sure there are still some ways to cheat as you said the cheaters are always ahead but its much more difficult now.

[chitownsportsfan]

12 minutes ago, ptatc said:

The advantage of thr current testing procedures is they dont need to test for specific drugs any longer. With the blood tests they check the testosterone levels and testosterone/epitestosterone ratios. The dont need to know what caused the change just that there was a change.

I'm sure there are still some ways to cheat as you said the cheaters are always ahead but its much more difficult now.

Hmm, I'm not even thinking T boosting PEDs sometimes. Talking stuff like PRT, blood transfusions, HGH in offseason and probablyu exotic stuff we don't even really have in the general public eye yet.

[ptatc]

27 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Hmm, I'm not even thinking T boosting PEDs sometimes. Talking stuff like PRT, blood transfusions, HGH in offseason and probablyu exotic stuff we don't even really have in the general public eye yet.

The blood doping is easy to detect by the ratio of blood cells to plasma ratio. Once the union agreed to blood tests, it made the testing procedures much more strict.

HGH will change the T/E ratios.

What is PRT? Not familiar with that acronym.

Edited July 3 by ptatc

[WestEddy]

47 minutes ago, ptatc said:

The advantage of thr current testing procedures is they dont need to test for specific drugs any longer. With the blood tests they check the testosterone levels and testosterone/epitestosterone ratios. The dont need to know what caused the change just that there was a change.

I'm sure there are still some ways to cheat as you said the cheaters are always ahead but its much more difficult now.

In the case of someone like Clevenger, does this also go for acid usage? The baby mamma was saying how he likes to drop, and MLB has no way to test for it.

[ptatc]

17 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

In the case of someone like Clevenger, does this also go for acid usage? The baby mamma was saying how he likes to drop, and MLB has no way to test for it.

I know they test for some "drugs of abuse" but i cant say I keep up with which specific ones.

[WhiteSox2023]

3 hours ago, WestEddy said:

In the case of someone like Clevenger, does this also go for acid usage? The baby mamma was saying how he likes to drop, and MLB has no way to test for it.

This wouldn’t even be a discussion if our stupid GM would stop throwing millions at him.