NO!!MARY!!! Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 7 hours ago, FloydBannister1983 said: The Cubs did outdraw in 1993 by a small amount. The Sox outdrew again in 1994 1994 was an incomplete season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 On 7/16/2025 at 1:32 AM, greg775 said: I love the word "monstrosity" in your post here. We go from lovable Comiskey to the blue lagoon. Do a youtube search of people who rate ballplayers and always give Comiskey a horrible grade on their reviews. Now there's an idea: move the Sox to Iceland! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 12 hours ago, NO!!MARY!!! said: 1994 was an incomplete season. Not sure what that proves. They played more than 2/3 of the season and the Sox significantly outdrew the Cubs in 1994 before Reinsdorf shut down the season. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox guy Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 On 7/16/2025 at 11:16 PM, FloydBannister1983 said: The Sox were outdrawing the Cubs 1991-1994. It wasn’t 1984 that broke them, it was Reinsdorf’s role in the lockout. They never recovered from the lockout. Can you post numbers to back this up, pls. Last I saw, we only outdrew them in 91, but it was back to same ol from 92 onward. Meaning, since 83, we only outdrew them once. One single solitary year in 42 years. The cubs are 41-1 since 83 in the attendance battle, last I saw. Pls post the actual stats to refute this. Nonetheless, the die was cast by the 90s. Sure. Frank and Rockin Robin gave us a much needed resurgence, but we were already pigeonholed in the #2 slot by then. You can't say it was even neck n neck from 84 to 91. We were done. Ok, you wanna say 84 didn't break us, that's fine. It knocked us down. Then 85-90 was us flailing on the canvass, trying to beat the 10 count. In 1991, we were up, ready for the next round, behind on points. Got some good shots in in 93 and 94, then came the vicious uppercut. In 1999, we were officially broken. Never was a more shellshocked, apathetic, brain dead atmosphere than 1999 in Comiskey. We weren't even self effacing anymore. Just blank stares as far as the eye could see. I don't think even the Clippers hit such rock bottom. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
77 Hitmen Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sox guy said: Can you post numbers to back this up, pls. Last I saw, we only outdrew them in 91, but it was back to same ol from 92 onward. Meaning, since 83, we only outdrew them once. One single solitary year in 42 years. The cubs are 41-1 since 83 in the attendance battle, last I saw. Pls post the actual stats to refute this. Nonetheless, the die was cast by the 90s. Sure. Frank and Rockin Robin gave us a much needed resurgence, but we were already pigeonholed in the #2 slot by then. You can't say it was even neck n neck from 84 to 91. We were done. Ok, you wanna say 84 didn't break us, that's fine. It knocked us down. Then 85-90 was us flailing on the canvass, trying to beat the 10 count. In 1991, we were up, ready for the next round, behind on points. Got some good shots in in 93 and 94, then came the vicious uppercut. In 1999, we were officially broken. Never was a more shellshocked, apathetic, brain dead atmosphere than 1999 in Comiskey. We weren't even self effacing anymore. Just blank stares as far as the eye could see. I don't think even the Clippers hit such rock bottom. You're close, but I just checked BaseballReference.com and the Sox had higher attendance in 91 and 92 and then the Cubs had higher attendance in 93. The Cubs also had higher attendance in 94, but had more home games as the Sox had a (barely) higher per-game average. But remember, in '94 the Sox were coming off a 94-win AL West title season and were cruising to another division title while the Cubs were coming off a 4th place finish and were in LAST PLACE when the season abruptly ended. The fact that the numbers were even close shows that there already were problems before the strike. https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/attend.shtml https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/attend.shtml But your point is taken. This idea that the Sox were humming along and everything was just fine and nothing pre-1994 (SportsVision, Harry becoming the ultimate Cubs PR man, threat to move, botched new stadium design) had any impact on the market share dynamics in Chicago is simply not true. 1993 - only the 3rd year of the new ballpark and they had a 94-win division title season and still couldn't outdraw the 4th place Cubs. Was the 1994 the worst of the Reinsdorf PR debacles? I'd agree YES, but it definitely didn't start there....and it didn't end there either. Edited July 20 by 77 Hitmen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 13 hours ago, Sox guy said: Can you post numbers to back this up, pls. Last I saw, we only outdrew them in 91, but it was back to same ol from 92 onward. Meaning, since 83, we only outdrew them once. One single solitary year in 42 years. The cubs are 41-1 since 83 in the attendance battle, last I saw. Pls post the actual stats to refute this. Nonetheless, the die was cast by the 90s. Sure. Frank and Rockin Robin gave us a much needed resurgence, but we were already pigeonholed in the #2 slot by then. You can't say it was even neck n neck from 84 to 91. We were done. Ok, you wanna say 84 didn't break us, that's fine. It knocked us down. Then 85-90 was us flailing on the canvass, trying to beat the 10 count. In 1991, we were up, ready for the next round, behind on points. Got some good shots in in 93 and 94, then came the vicious uppercut. In 1999, we were officially broken. Never was a more shellshocked, apathetic, brain dead atmosphere than 1999 in Comiskey. We weren't even self effacing anymore. Just blank stares as far as the eye could see. I don't think even the Clippers hit such rock bottom. The numbers we drawn from baseball reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 (edited) 12 hours ago, 77 Hitmen said: You're close, but I just checked BaseballReference.com and the Sox had higher attendance in 91 and 92 and then the Cubs had higher attendance in 93. The Cubs also had higher attendance in 94, but had more home games as the Sox had a (barely) higher per-game average. But remember, in '94 the Sox were coming off a 94-win AL West title season and were cruising to another division title while the Cubs were coming off a 4th place finish and were in LAST PLACE when the season abruptly ended. The fact that the numbers were even close shows that there already were problems before the strike. https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/attend.shtml https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/attend.shtml But your point is taken. This idea that the Sox were humming along and everything was just fine and nothing pre-1994 (SportsVision, Harry becoming the ultimate Cubs PR man, threat to move, botched new stadium design) had any impact on the market share dynamics in Chicago is simply not true. 1993 - only the 3rd year of the new ballpark and they had a 94-win division title season and still couldn't outdraw the 4th place Cubs. Was the 1994 the worst of the Reinsdorf PR debacles? I'd agree YES, but it definitely didn't start there....and it didn't end there either. On a per game average the Sox outdrew the Cubs in 1994. The Cubs, while finishing in fourth in 1993, had a fine season six games above .500 in 1993. https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/1994-misc.shtml Also nobody said that the pre-1994 botches were not problematic, where did you get that? The only thing that was said was that Reinsdorf nearly single-handedly ending the 1994 season was the driving force behind the White Sox never ever recovering. Edited July 20 by FloydBannister1983 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 Beyond ridding ourselves of Reinsdorf, we have to find a way to add power to the lineup. In particular, we got to find a way to get 20+ HRs from all the major corner spots and get couple guys who can give us 30+. I like us targeting guys who make good swing decisions and will get on base, but power wins at the Rate and we are going to need a fuckton more of it than what’s currently in the system. And to add here, I really don’t like the idea of Vargas at 1B. He feels like a guy who will max out at around 20 bombs a year and ideally 1B is a spot you should be able to get more out of. Without any obvious internal candidates, it feels like a spot we should address in free agency. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 On 7/19/2025 at 5:38 AM, soxfan49 said: Now there's an idea: move the Sox to Iceland! A lot of these politician should suggest something like this when owners threaten to leave because they can't have new stadiums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 A big reason for lack of success is the failure of Number 1 draft choices to excel. Other than Crochet, Sox have not done well. Now our two recent Number 1 left handed pitcher draft picks are both struggling in the minors. Colson is on the Sox roster, but there have been negative vibes along the way. Gonzalez hangs in there in AA. Vaughn, Madrigal, Burger.... I could go back to Courtney Hawkins. I have no problem with the Carlson pick, but he might. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt574 Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 1 hour ago, oldsox said: A big reason for lack of success is the failure of Number 1 draft choices to excel. Other than Crochet, Sox have not done well. Now our two recent Number 1 left handed pitcher draft picks are both struggling in the minors. Colson is on the Sox roster, but there have been negative vibes along the way. Gonzalez hangs in there in AA. Vaughn, Madrigal, Burger.... I could go back to Courtney Hawkins. I have no problem with the Carlson pick, but he might. We've done ok on the pitching side (especially if you go back to Sale, Rodon), but it's been way too long since we hit it big on a position player in the draft. Need to change that ASAP. Next year's pick in particular when we should have a top draft pick again. Having top 5 picks 2 years in a row and walking away with Madrigal and Vaughn was certainly a killer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 In answer to the question posed in the title of the thread. A: Keep guys like Crochet (he'd look good in a Sox uniform right now with Sale and Rodon). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 1 hour ago, greg775 said: In answer to the question posed in the title of the thread. A: Keep guys like Crochet (he'd look good in a Sox uniform right now with Sale and Rodon). Good luck with that. This is just looking at their salaries for this year and not even the total values of their contracts. That’s $52.8 million for three players. The Sox opening day payroll this year was around $80 million. Steve Cohen would need to replace Jerry as owner for you to get your wish. 2025 Salaries Crochet: $3.8 million Sale: $22 million Rodon: $27 million Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 On 7/21/2025 at 6:30 AM, oldsox said: A big reason for lack of success is the failure of Number 1 draft choices to excel. Other than Crochet, Sox have not done well. Now our two recent Number 1 left handed pitcher draft picks are both struggling in the minors. Colson is on the Sox roster, but there have been negative vibes along the way. Gonzalez hangs in there in AA. Vaughn, Madrigal, Burger.... I could go back to Courtney Hawkins. I have no problem with the Carlson pick, but he might. Looking at those names outside of Crochet is disgustingly painful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 3 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Good luck with that. This is just looking at their salaries for this year and not even the total values of their contracts. That’s $52.8 million for three players. The Sox opening day payroll this year was around $80 million. Steve Cohen would need to replace Jerry as owner for you to get your wish. 2025 Salaries Crochet: $3.8 million Sale: $22 million Rodon: $27 million $75-76 million Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt574 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 5 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Good luck with that. This is just looking at their salaries for this year and not even the total values of their contracts. That’s $52.8 million for three players. The Sox opening day payroll this year was around $80 million. Steve Cohen would need to replace Jerry as owner for you to get your wish. 2025 Salaries Crochet: $3.8 million Sale: $22 million Rodon: $27 million Obviously it's not going to happen under JR but there's really no reason a properly funded/run Sox franchise in Chicago couldn't afford those guys. MLB average payroll is around $170M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 35 minutes ago, bighurt574 said: Obviously it's not going to happen under JR but there's really no reason a properly funded/run Sox franchise in Chicago couldn't afford those guys. MLB average payroll is around $170M. I think people really underestimate how important not having a local TV contract was to the Sox this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 1 hour ago, bighurt574 said: Obviously it's not going to happen under JR but there's really no reason a properly funded/run Sox franchise in Chicago couldn't afford those guys. MLB average payroll is around $170M. And at least $145 million to be a legit WC contender... Looks like the entire division outside of Detroit is half rebuilding/retrenching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 55 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I think people really underestimate how important not having a local TV contract was to the Sox this year. Going from $70-75 million down to let's say $10-15 million (ballpark estimate) just killed any chance at a $100 million payroll, not that it would have been money well spent/allocated. For reference, lots of reports speculating the Padres are only in the $15-18 million range for local media rights this year...not sure KC Minn CLE much better off based on key players thrown around in preliminary trade talks already like Clase/Kwan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaff Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 Assuming some roster spots will be opening up with the Trade deadline who do you think will get called up from the minors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 1 hour ago, Falstaff said: Assuming some roster spots will be opening up with the Trade deadline who do you think will get called up from the minors? Robertson should be the guy in the OF. During the early days of the last rebuild I wanted us to target guys who were viewed as being AAAA types but were actually producing high end numbers in the minors. While he’s a bit older than desired, Robertson fits the billing to a T. Always has had plus power, but he has gotten his K & BB rates to a much better place and the offensive results are terrific now. Will those results translate to the majors? Probably not, but the risk is definitely worth the reward. Kyle Stowers is the exact same age with some similarities in terms of offensive profile and he has been a massive hit this year when given a shot. For a club lacking both OFs and power, this is an absolute no brainer move IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 4 hours ago, Falstaff said: Assuming some roster spots will be opening up with the Trade deadline who do you think will get called up from the minors? That might well depend on which players the Sox target in deals. Based on how they have drafted and where their kids on in the minors, they seem to be looking young, but that doesn't mean that some guys who are out of options, or up against the Rule 5 wall couldn't have some value over guys with control for teams sending out players and needing roster spots next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: Robertson should be the guy in the OF. During the early days of the last rebuild I wanted us to target guys who were viewed as being AAAA types but were actually producing high end numbers in the minors. While he’s a bit older than desired, Robertson fits the billing to a T. Always has had plus power, but he has gotten his K & BB rates to a much better place and the offensive results are terrific now. Will those results translate to the majors? Probably not, but the risk is definitely worth the reward. Kyle Stowers is the exact same age with some similarities in terms of offensive profile and he has been a massive hit this year when given a shot. For a club lacking both OFs and power, this is an absolute no brainer move IMO. I get your thinking on this, but the little I saw of Robertson left me very underwhelmed. He seems squarely in the AAAA group hopefully he can show something but the guy had a massive hole in his bat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
77 Hitmen Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 On 7/23/2025 at 9:09 AM, southsider2k5 said: I think people really underestimate how important not having a local TV contract was to the Sox this year. On 7/23/2025 at 10:03 AM, caulfield12 said: Going from $70-75 million down to let's say $10-15 million (ballpark estimate) just killed any chance at a $100 million payroll, not that it would have been money well spent/allocated. For reference, lots of reports speculating the Padres are only in the $15-18 million range for local media rights this year...not sure KC Minn CLE much better off based on key players thrown around in preliminary trade talks already like Clase/Kwan. How much does the new Comcast deal give them? I'd imagine it's not even close to what they were getting from the RSN deal a few years ago. I don't know what the answer is going forward. I'd imagine teams with huge fan bases can still make a decent amount of money from TV/RSN deals and direct-streaming subscriptions, but this is a huge problem for everyone else, including the White Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said: I get your thinking on this, but the little I saw of Robertson left me very underwhelmed. He seems squarely in the AAAA group hopefully he can show something but the guy had a massive hole in his bat Like I said before, he probably doesn’t work out, but the dude is crushing it in AAA this season. And once we move all the veteran OFs, I’d rather give him two months and see if he shows something than give someone like Fletcher another look. I do believe there is a bit of market inefficiency with guys like this because the amount of teams willing to go through growing pains for a 27 year old with question marks is incredibly slim. As such, very few of them get chances like this to see if they can adjust at the major league level. IMO, this is exactly the type of low risk, high reward move a rebuilding team should make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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