22 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Keith Law had the Sox with the 8th best system in baseball which was their highest ranking from what I saw. This has nothing to do with him not being high on the prospects. 

Getz has already deserved to be fired once, at minimum. The victory laps over Chris Getz this off-season have been wild! Further proof and evidence that if you lower the bar so low, people will claim you're dominating when you're just don't basic things.

I don't think anyone is doing victory laps. I think most say its improving but is still bad. They were all positive moves. Building through development takes time. There really isn't an alternative when they have a restrictive budget.

Edited February 2Feb 2 by ptatc

13 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I don't think anyone is doing victory laps. I think most say its improving but is still bad. They were all positive moves. Building through development takes time. There really isn't an alternative when they have a restrictive budget.

The Sox have always had a budget.

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The Sox have always had a budget.

But they've spent more, sometimes significantly more, in past seasons.  Trouble was, they typically spent money on the wrong players.  Now they have a very small budget but are spending the money a little more smartly.

10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The Sox have always had a budget.

Correct. In  2022 it was 192 million. In 2023, it was 158 million This year it appears to be around 90 million.

Edited February 2Feb 2 by ptatc

31 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What did he deserve to be fired for?

For being a part of the previous failed regime, obviously. 

30 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What did he deserve to be fired for?

There's a group here who, while complaining about perpetual rebuilds, want everybody fired, all systems thrown out, and to start from point zero yet again. Yippie!!

Or, if they think that a new guy should just build upon the good things Getz put in place, why not just leave Getz in? They're seriously offended that Getz was hired the way he was and will never cop to any general positivity. 

It's seriously engagement bait, at this point. 

12 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Correct. In  2022 it was 192 million. In 2023, it was 158 million This year it appears to be around 90 million.

Luckily no one associated with the team now played any part in that.

30 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I don't think anyone is doing victory laps. I think most say its improving but is still bad. They were all positive moves. Building through development takes time. There really isn't an alternative when they have a restrictive budget.

The positives and the wait-and-see people get happy over the front office doing something clever or at least doing what they said they were going to do. The negatives, however, take victory laps over shoe-horning any move into their narrative, regardless of whether it fits or not. So basically, somebody signaling approval is a victory lap, which must be mocked, because how dare they?!? Continuously dunking on a low-level trade that didn't work 2 years ago is just acknowledging reality. 

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Luckily no one associated with the team now played any part in that.

I think you were referring to Getz performance and the fact that he operates under the same budget restrictions that the Sox have always had. I dont think that's accurate based on the budgets of recent years.

8 minutes ago, T R U said:

For being a part of the previous failed regime, obviously. 

You don’t automatically fire everyone simply because they were part of the previous regime.  Plenty of smart, talented people have worked for extremely poor leaders.  Everything should be evaluated on a case by case basis.

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You don’t automatically fire everyone simply because they were part of the previous regime.  Plenty of smart, talented people have worked for extremely poor leaders.  Everything should be evaluated on a case by case basis.

Amazingly, nobody here will admit to going to the higher ups after a boss was fired, and asking to be let go, as they were also part of a failed program. 

40 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I don't think anyone is doing victory laps. I think most say its improving but is still bad. They were all positive moves. Building through development takes time. There really isn't an alternative when they have a restrictive budget.

That's all I see.  Honestly, it is the reason every conversation turns into this.  It feels like Getz can do no wrong, and if he did, it is someone else's fault.  Bring up the past, and you are "dunking" on someone.  Anytime Getz gets questioned, the thread turns into this.

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

That's all I see.  Honestly, it is the reason every conversation turns into this.  It feels like Getz can do no wrong, and if he did, it is someone else's fault.  Bring up the past, and you are "dunking" on someone.  Anytime Getz gets questioned, the thread turns into this.

Also, anyone that can recognize that Getz has had a pretty good offseason should also be able to acknowledge how absolutely brutal his first offseason was.

9 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

There's a group here who, while complaining about perpetual rebuilds, want everybody fired, all systems thrown out, and to start from point zero yet again. Yippie!!

Or, if they think that a new guy should just build upon the good things Getz put in place, why not just leave Getz in? They're seriously offended that Getz was hired the way he was and will never cop to any general positivity. 

It's seriously engagement bait, at this point. 

The process that led to Getz’s hire was garbage.  And whether he’ll end up a good GM or not is too early to say.  But the idea that everyone in the Sox was terrible at their job is not true.  Shirley is an example of a talented employee who Getz has smartly kept.  That being said, Getz has fired a fuckton of former Sox employees who he felt weren’t good at their jobs and not because of KW or Hahn.  Haber gone.  Paddy gone.  KW Jr gone.  Koenig and the former analytics group…gone.  Pro scouting staff…mostly gone.  The list goes on and on.  Again, Getz may ultimately prove bad, but his performance as GM should not be defined by his results as our Player Development lead.

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The process that led to Getz’s hire was garbage.  And whether he’ll end up a good GM or not is too early to say.  But the idea that everyone in the Sox was terrible at their job is not true.  Shirley is an example of a talented employee who Getz has smartly kept.  That being said, Getz has fired a fuckton of former Sox employees who he felt weren’t good at their jobs and not because of KW or Hahn.  Haber gone.  Paddy gone.  KW Jr gone.  Koenig and the former analytics group…gone.  Pro scouting staff…mostly gone.  The list goes on and on.  Again, Getz may ultimately prove bad, but his performance as GM should not be defined by his results as our Player Development lead.

This is the way I look at it. He is doing something different and that is welcome. Whether or not it works will determine how long he should stay. I know I have more patience than most but it is intriguing.

3 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Also, anyone that can recognize that Getz has had a pretty good offseason should also be able to acknowledge how absolutely brutal his first offseason was.

Candidly speaking, his overall trade record is bad.  Many of his early moves were garbage.  I have liked most of what he has done over the past 16 months, but there have been some stinkers in there.  Obviously no GM is perfect, but we need a much longer runway before we can determine if he’s good or bad at player acquisition.  I do think it’s clear he’s making significant improvements to the org’s foundation, which automatically makes him an upgrade over KW & Hahn.

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The process that led to Getz’s hire was garbage.  And whether he’ll end up a good GM or not is too early to say.  But the idea that everyone in the Sox was terrible at their job is not true.  Shirley is an example of a talented employee who Getz has smartly kept.  That being said, Getz has fired a fuckton of former Sox employees who he felt weren’t good at their jobs and not because of KW or Hahn.  Haber gone.  Paddy gone.  KW Jr gone.  Koenig and the former analytics group…gone.  Pro scouting staff…mostly gone.  The list goes on and on.  Again, Getz may ultimately prove bad, but his performance as GM should not be defined by his results as our Player Development lead.

I agree. I wouldn't call his hire "garbage", but I wasn't happy when he was announced and understand why he started way behind the starting line of popular opinion because of it. As I said earlier, I don't feel my opinion is weighted with untold amounts of baseball acumen. So, I won't go on and on if a move occurs and it doesn't seem like the best way forward. He's doing all the things everybody thinks the organization should be doing. He seems to have a better percentage of success with moves than previously. 

7 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Also, anyone that can recognize that Getz has had a pretty good offseason should also be able to acknowledge how absolutely brutal his first offseason was.

True. However the circumstances are different. At the first stage, the purpose was just to clear out the bad players and lose to get better drafts. They are at the point now where winning games is becoming more of a priority especially with being able to pick no higher than 10 in 2027. Winning is still not the highest priority as development is but its moving up the ladder.

The time to spend is when they have a good nucleus of developed players and they need only a couple to put them over the top.

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Candidly speaking, his overall trade record is bad.  Many of his early moves were garbage.  I have liked most of what he has done over the past 16 months, but there have been some stinkers in there.  Obviously no GM is perfect, but we need a much longer runway before we can determine if he’s good or bad at player acquisition.  I do think it’s clear he’s making significant improvements to the org’s foundation, which automatically makes him an upgrade over KW & Hahn.

And I realize this is "not blaming Getz" enough, but a trade like Mena for Fletcher - I wouldn't call garbage. Obviously, it didn't work. I don't know if it was bad scouting, or that the Sox didn't have the infrastructure in place to facilitate a trade like that. I would expect Pereira or Acuña to work out better, just for the support systems he's put in place. 

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What did he deserve to be fired for?

He lost the 4th most games in baseball history over a three year span and made horrible trades and signings as gm, was in charge of one of the worst minor league systems in baseball, and did nothing but agree with the owner moving towards historic cheapness.

Edited February 2Feb 2 by Look at Ray Ray Run

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

This is a pretty ridiculous take.  Getz is in his third year as GM.  He inherited a completely broken organization.  He has been given very little resource at the major league level to work with.  His amateur LatAm signings remain locked in from the previous regime.  What accomplishments were you expecting exactly?

I can’t tell if you’re actually judging him exclusively by farm system rankings in this post or not, but that is also an absurd thing to do.  Lots of prospects lost prospect eligibility last year.  The LatAm function continues to provide almost nothing, which is killing the depth of system.  Having a couple decent drafts when you have only overseen two is a pretty good accomplishment and probably best thing we have to evaluate him on.

Take it up with Keith.

He addresses the graduating prospects. He also agrees the system should be better. 

I'm not going to repeat everything we've been discussing for the past three years, but i obviously agree with Keith. Getz didnt do his homework for 2 years and now he's doing it but at a C level. I'm not going to applaud that. People are thrilled about a team with a 66ish win forecast. Couldn't be me.

Maybe it works out, because randomness is what makes baseball great, but Getz hasn't reinvented anything here. 

I'm not going to get into you claiming he's a better GM than Kenny Williams. 

46 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Take it up with Keith.

He addresses the graduating prospects. He also agrees the system should be better. 

I'm not going to repeat everything we've been discussing for the past three years, but i obviously agree with Keith. Getz didnt do his homework for 2 years and now he's doing it but at a C level. I'm not going to applaud that. People are thrilled about a team with a 66ish win forecast. Couldn't be me.

Maybe it works out, because randomness is what makes baseball great, but Getz hasn't reinvented anything here. 

I'm not going to get into you claiming he's a better GM than Kenny Williams. 

I dont necessarily disagree with most of what you said. The ine i do disagree with is the loses. They were tanking  to rebuild. They were trying to lose. So in that respect it is a positive as he did it better than anyone. 

You can disagree with the plan to tank and  rebuild but that's what they were doing and got the 1-1 pick this year.

Edited February 2Feb 2 by ptatc

How the hell did this thread turn into this bullshit again? 

3 minutes ago, Baron said:

How the hell did this thread turn into this bullshit again? 

You're right. Sorry, done.

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

You're right. Sorry, done.

It's not your fault. Just the usual suspects plus a mod that have their ears perk up like a german sheppard if something positive is uttered and here we go down memory lane.