southsider2k5 Posted Wednesday at 02:48 PM Author Share Posted Wednesday at 02:48 PM 12 hours ago, SoxAce said: I'm willing to bet the Ravens had buyers remorse with the picks and backed out. And its such bad/shady business and extremely weak of them. They actually have a history of doing exactly this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted Wednesday at 02:50 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 02:50 PM 14 minutes ago, Snopek said: But…they didn’t break any rule. And if it’s an unwritten rule type of thing, well, then maybe it should be a written rule. That’s on the NFL. The only thing the Ravens should care about is doing what they feel is best for their team, which they did 🤷♂️ This is a simplistic way of looking at it. They did not break any rule, you are correct. Ethically, we're having a different conversation. And decisions have consequences. Teams will be more hesitant to trade with the Ravens. Players may be more hesitant to agree to terms with the Ravens. It also has created much more of a mess for teams than people realize. We know by reporting that multiple teams were in on Crosby. He was one of the first dominos to fall, trade was agreed to and the multiple teams that were involved in the talks pivoted to signing and agreeing to terms with other players to fill their roster. With the salary Crosby has, there has to be some planning involved in getting his contract to work with the rest of the roster. For a trade of this magnitude, and with the current injury state Crosby is in, medicals should have been reviewed before a deal was formally announced. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted Wednesday at 03:02 PM Author Share Posted Wednesday at 03:02 PM 14 minutes ago, Tony said: This is a simplistic way of looking at it. They did not break any rule, you are correct. Ethically, we're having a different conversation. And decisions have consequences. Teams will be more hesitant to trade with the Ravens. Players may be more hesitant to agree to terms with the Ravens. It also has created much more of a mess for teams than people realize. We know by reporting that multiple teams were in on Crosby. He was one of the first dominos to fall, trade was agreed to and the multiple teams that were involved in the talks pivoted to signing and agreeing to terms with other players to fill their roster. With the salary Crosby has, there has to be some planning involved in getting his contract to work with the rest of the roster. For a trade of this magnitude, and with the current injury state Crosby is in, medicals should have been reviewed before a deal was formally announced. Especially since it seems to indicate a good faith effort to "fix" whatever problem existed wasn't made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted Wednesday at 03:10 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 03:10 PM 1 hour ago, SoxAce said: You keep telling yourself that. So you're saying the physicians lied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted Wednesday at 03:13 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 03:13 PM 42 minutes ago, Snopek said: But…they didn’t break any rule. And if it’s an unwritten rule type of thing, well, then maybe it should be a written rule. That’s on the NFL. The only thing the Ravens should care about is doing what they feel is best for their team, which they did 🤷♂️ They did, if they say it was due to a failed physical and it wasn't. The physicians have to document and submit the paperwork. The physicians will need to have lied. Maybe there is an exception to the rule because the deal couldn't become official to today. Not sure about that. But in general trade and deals are denied regularly due to failing physicals. But the documents need to be verified and submitted to the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted Wednesday at 03:18 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 03:18 PM 25 minutes ago, Tony said: This is a simplistic way of looking at it. They did not break any rule, you are correct. Ethically, we're having a different conversation. And decisions have consequences. Teams will be more hesitant to trade with the Ravens. Players may be more hesitant to agree to terms with the Ravens. It also has created much more of a mess for teams than people realize. We know by reporting that multiple teams were in on Crosby. He was one of the first dominos to fall, trade was agreed to and the multiple teams that were involved in the talks pivoted to signing and agreeing to terms with other players to fill their roster. With the salary Crosby has, there has to be some planning involved in getting his contract to work with the rest of the roster. For a trade of this magnitude, and with the current injury state Crosby is in, medicals should have been reviewed before a deal was formally announced. Deals are announced pending physical all the time. Wait until the next deal is announced. It will have the qualifier of "pending physicals." Teams cant just look at medical records and make their decisions. They need to see the athlete in person. Then make the determination if its worth the price because no athlete is 100% clean. Everyone has a little issue here or there by the time they've played the sports to get to the professional level let alone actually played at the professional level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted Wednesday at 03:23 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 03:23 PM (edited) One of the more high profile "failed physical" cases was when the Astros drafted Brady Aiken number 1 overall. His wasnt even an injury. The Astros said his UCL was too small. They rescinded the offer to him. They tried to sign him for less money. He refused. I think he then went to independent ball and immediately tore his UCL. Edited Wednesday at 03:24 PM by ptatc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted Wednesday at 03:35 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 03:35 PM Honestly, I admire Baltimore for what they did. They recognized a better path forward for their team and switched course not caring one bit what everyone else thought. The difference between Hendrickson and Crosby is not worth two, first round picks. I just think to myself, how would the Bears have handled this situation? They would have honored the original trade agreement because they are an organization of integrity and the McCaskeys would never allow it. Right? How would the Ravens have handled the situation with Ian Cunningham and the draft picks? Or the Eagles? Maybe the end result would’ve been the same, but this whole good guy, follow the rules, be a model organization - sometimes it’s justified to be in the grey area. The Ravens are there now and everything is working out fine for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted Wednesday at 03:37 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 03:37 PM 33 minutes ago, ptatc said: They did, if they say it was due to a failed physical and it wasn't. The physicians have to document and submit the paperwork. The physicians will need to have lied. Maybe there is an exception to the rule because the deal couldn't become official to today. Not sure about that. But in general trade and deals are denied regularly due to failing physicals. But the documents need to be verified and submitted to the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted Wednesday at 03:50 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 03:50 PM 11 minutes ago, Tony said: Maybe its due to the fact that the deals aren't official until today. But the documentation is extensive for a failed physical if its official. That could be grounds for a grievance. Its also ignorance on their part that they dont think a player needs to be evaluated in person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted Wednesday at 04:05 PM Author Share Posted Wednesday at 04:05 PM 57 minutes ago, ptatc said: So you're saying the physicians lied. Aren't you the one who tells us that you can pretty much fail anyone on a physical if you want to when it comes to pro athletes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted Wednesday at 04:22 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 04:22 PM 18 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Aren't you the one who tells us that you can pretty much fail anyone on a physical if you want to when it comes to pro athletes? Everyone has issues. But they have to document that it's to the level of failing a physical as opposed to normal wear and tear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted Wednesday at 04:26 PM Author Share Posted Wednesday at 04:26 PM 5 minutes ago, ptatc said: Everyone has issues. But they have to document that it's to the level of failing a physical as opposed to normal wear and tear. Again, which is supposed to be easy if you want it to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted Wednesday at 04:32 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 04:32 PM 6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Again, which is supposed to be easy if you want it to be. Not necessarily. Especially if its for a specific injury. There's a difference if its for joint degeneration vs. issues from the latest surgery. The documentation needs to be detailed in a failed physical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted Wednesday at 04:34 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 04:34 PM 4 hours ago, SoxAce said: Just pure shady. Shady for sure, but they will have no problems finding suitors with the best offer on the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted Wednesday at 04:38 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 04:38 PM 47 minutes ago, ptatc said: Maybe its due to the fact that the deals aren't official until today. But the documentation is extensive for a failed physical if its official. That could be grounds for a grievance. Its also ignorance on their part that they dont think a player needs to be evaluated in person. Why would it be grounds for a grievance? The Raiders disclosed the timeline and knee issues with Crosby. The Ravens agreed, BUT that doesn't mean the Ravens waive the right to put him through a physical and fail him for the exact issues that were disclosed. It looks bad, but it's within the rules so no grievance. I think it's a shitty move, but it's obviously the right move for the Ravens if they think they're team is better. I think Hendrickson has a lot more risk and there's a real chance he could be close to washed after a year or so. I think the Ravens clearly viewed him + 2 1sts as a better path forward, but Crosby is the better player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted Wednesday at 04:50 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 04:50 PM 10 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Why would it be grounds for a grievance? The Raiders disclosed the timeline and knee issues with Crosby. The Ravens agreed, BUT that doesn't mean the Ravens waive the right to put him through a physical and fail him for the exact issues that were disclosed. It looks bad, but it's within the rules so no grievance. I think it's a shitty move, but it's obviously the right move for the Ravens if they think they're team is better. I think Hendrickson has a lot more risk and there's a real chance he could be close to washed after a year or so. I think the Ravens clearly viewed him + 2 1sts as a better path forward, but Crosby is the better player. The grievance would he for the actual assessment of the injury. If the assessment showed nothing but typical wear and tear but nothing significant. What is the grounds for failing a physical? If they truly just changed their minds that's a different issue. Again, im not sure what the rules are for the "legal tampering period" so the while discussion may not be applicable. But having gone through that process, the exam and findings are very detailed. Picture a workers comp claim where the company doesnt want to pay. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted Wednesday at 05:46 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 05:46 PM 4 hours ago, ptatc said: Slime balls? They didn't get one guy so they pivot to another? What do you mean they didn’t get one guy? They absolutely got Crosby, and if they had buyers remorse and cancelled the deal because they didn’t want to give up picks, that sucks because they went ahead and changed the entire landscape of free agency from that point forward, and now they are forcing the raiders to have to go back and figure this out after they committed a bunch of money post-trade. Legal, sure whatever it’s in the rules. But this sucks and they are slime balls for sure IF the reason is they realized that keeping the picks is better and came up with a physical for the Out 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted Wednesday at 05:53 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 05:53 PM 7 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: What do you mean they didn’t get one guy? They absolutely got Crosby, and if they had buyers remorse and cancelled the deal because they didn’t want to give up picks, that sucks because they went ahead and changed the entire landscape of free agency from that point forward, and now they are forcing the raiders to have to go back and figure this out after they committed a bunch of money post-trade. Legal, sure whatever it’s in the rules. But this sucks and they are slime balls for sure IF the reason is they realized that keeping the picks is better and came up with a physical for the Out If the reason isn’t medical then yes they are slime balls. I don't know if we will ever know for sure. However it awfully judgemental to jist go with it. If it was, they didn't get the first one and pivoted to the second Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted Wednesday at 05:57 PM Author Share Posted Wednesday at 05:57 PM 9 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: What do you mean they didn’t get one guy? They absolutely got Crosby, and if they had buyers remorse and cancelled the deal because they didn’t want to give up picks, that sucks because they went ahead and changed the entire landscape of free agency from that point forward, and now they are forcing the raiders to have to go back and figure this out after they committed a bunch of money post-trade. Legal, sure whatever it’s in the rules. But this sucks and they are slime balls for sure IF the reason is they realized that keeping the picks is better and came up with a physical for the Out Especially since the reports are that they didn't seem to try to act in good faith. They waited to request records and they sure didn't try to negotiate a fix. It's also not their first time pulling a stunt like this. It might be "legal", but it sure seems to be unethical or immoral at best. It's definitely not going to do much for their standing or trust going forward with their peers who all seem to think this is BS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted Wednesday at 06:50 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 06:50 PM Oof. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted Wednesday at 06:53 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 06:53 PM Also, Byard to Pats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted Wednesday at 06:53 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 06:53 PM Byard to the Patriots. I liked him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted Wednesday at 07:06 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 07:06 PM 18 minutes ago, Quin said: Oof. Boom. Not surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted Wednesday at 07:10 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 07:10 PM 5 minutes ago, SoxAce said: Boom. Not surprised. Yep, very sticky. Which was it. Not sure anyone will know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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