It seems like the players really like him and it's hard to argue with the production, but some of his in-game managing is full of bone headed decisions IMO.

1. Bunting. What more needs to be said? The guy fucking loves the bunt. We all know how stupid that is in this day and age. It needs to happen less.

2. Pinch hitting and defensive subs. I don't always agree with his pinch hitting and when he does it. Then his defensive subs make our defense actively worse. Just look at the defense at the end of today's game.

3. Insisting that one of the best defensive shortstops in the game constantly play 3rd base. I don't know that I've ever seen something like this. We have one of the best defensive shortstops in the game. Why do we constantly find reasons to move him off SS?

4. Bullpen management. I get that it's easy to backseat management the bullpen, but I'm not a big fan of his management.

If this team wasn't winning I think a lot of us would be calling for his head.

Edited Saturday at 08:08 PM1 day by ron883

Venerable doesn’t know how to manage (use) a pitching staff. Let Bove take complete control of all pitching decisions. Venerable is a neophyte manager. He doesn’t know what he doesn’t know.

He's actually really good at getting production out of his pinch hit decisions.

Additional inning for Rock seemed gratuitous
It isn't easy - the pen is 50% org guys.

3 minutes ago, Autumn Dreamin said:

He's actually really good at getting production out of his pinch hit decisions.

Excuse me this thread is for armchair managing, not facts and data.

4 minutes ago, Snopek said:

Excuse me this thread is for armchair managing, not facts and data.

That just means our players have performed well in pinch hitting opportunities. That doesn't mean Venable has made sound pinch hitting decisions. The players have saved his ass.

8 minutes ago, Autumn Dreamin said:

He's actually really good at getting production out of his pinch hit decisions.

All of this right here. And yeah there can be a bit too much bunting at times, but this team utilizes it well and has turned it into an advantage. Hes doing fine.

7 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Additional inning for Rock seemed gratuitous
It isn't easy - the pen is 50% org guys.

I'd like to see Newcombe go longer with how well he was pitching.

7 minutes ago, ron883 said:

That just means our players have performed well in pinch hitting opportunities. That doesn't mean Venable has made sound pinch hitting decisions. The players have saved his ass.

So you’re saying the player’s ability ultimately determines how successful a move is? Ok, now apply that logic to the bullpen moves too.

22 minutes ago, Autumn Dreamin said:

He's actually really good at getting production out of his pinch hit decisions.

0.9 fWAR from our pinch hitters, which is the best in baseball. But hey, that shouldn’t stop anyone from ripping the manager of a currently playoff bound that was never expected to be this good and is riddled with injuries.

And to be clear, the bunting is a problem. This defense whining is mostly a function of the roster Venable has inherited.

17 minutes ago, ron883 said:

I'd like to see Newcombe go longer with how well he was pitching.

He’s not stretched out to go longer.

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He’s not stretched out to go longer.

He's thrown more pitches than today multiple times this season. He reached 51 in his 2nd game of the season.

13 minutes ago, ron883 said:

He's thrown more pitches than today multiple times this season. He reached 51 in his 2nd game of the season.

It's not just raw pitch count, it's also the number of "ups"

Even someone more stretched out would typically need more than 2 days rest to go for a 4th inning

18 minutes ago, ron883 said:

He's thrown more pitches than today multiple times this season. He reached 51 in his 2nd game of the season.

You mean twice? The other being two holes pitches more than today.

4 hours ago, ron883 said:

It seems like the players really like him and it's hard to argue with the production, but some of his in-game managing is full of bone headed decisions IMO.

1. Bunting. What more needs to be said? The guy fucking loves the bunt. We all know how stupid that is in this day and age. It needs to happen less.

2. Pinch hitting and defensive subs. I don't always agree with his pinch hitting and when he does it. Then his defensive subs make our defense actively worse. Just look at the defense at the end of today's game.

3. Insisting that one of the best defensive shortstops in the game constantly play 3rd base. I don't know that I've ever seen something like this. We have one of the best defensive shortstops in the game. Why do we constantly find reasons to move him off SS?

4. Bullpen management. I get that it's easy to backseat management the bullpen, but I'm not a big fan of his management.

If this team wasn't winning I think a lot of us would be calling for his head.

1) Bunting is part of the game. I understand it's popular to cry about bunting, like yelling "Do Freebird!!" at any random live show gets a cheap laugh. People scream about bunting when playing for 1 run in the 8th inning. That inning of suicide squeeze bunts last week was dumb. That's about the only time I disagreed with bunting. When the 3B is back and Peters sees a good opportunity for a free hit, I'd say take it. That's his job.
2) The pinch hitting works well.
3) Monty playing 3B occasionally is not an issue. Monty at SS and Acuña at 3B is more of a drop-off than Monty at 3B and Acuña at SS. It's a great decision on Will's part to keep Monty fresh at 3B, and to keep the team versatile for the pinch hitting that works well.
4) The bullpen is the guys he has. Venable is also developing as a manager, and has to learn the game, learn his players, what he can get out of them in different situations. Complaining about Taylor of Hudson opening has no merit. 1st inning outs mean as much as 8th inning outs. The logic behind having the starting pitcher start with the 4th or 7th hitter of the order has been explained multiple times. When people say "it makes zero sense", what they're really saying is "I don't have the capacity to process sound reasoning".

The team is winning because Will Venable is a great manager. People were still picking this team to lose 100 games this year. Will has this team playing 11 wins better than that pace. The team isn't winning because of the angry posts in game threads. They're winning because of Venable's moves, the lineups, the bullpen usage and the offense.

Edited yesterday at 12:00 AM1 day by WestEddy

Can't give less than a C for a guy leading a team performing well beyond expectations, but also can't help but think he's holding them back a little bit at the same time.

38 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

1) Bunting is part of the game. I understand it's popular to cry about bunting, like yelling "Do Freebird!!" at any random live show gets a cheap laugh. People scream about bunting when playing for 1 run in the 8th inning. That inning of suicide squeeze bunts last week was dumb. That's about the only time I disagreed with bunting. When the 3B is back and Peters sees a good opportunity for a free hit, I'd say take it. That's his job.
2) The pinch hitting works well.
3) Monty playing 3B occasionally is not an issue. Monty at SS and Acuña at 3B is more of a drop-off than Monty at 3B and Acuña at SS. It's a great decision on Will's part to keep Monty fresh at 3B, and to keep the team versatile for the pinch hitting that works well.
4) The bullpen is the guys he has. Venable is also developing as a manager, and has to learn the game, learn his players, what he can get out of them in different situations. Complaining about Taylor of Hudson opening has no merit. 1st inning outs mean as much as 8th inning outs. The logic behind having the starting pitcher start with the 4th or 7th hitter of the order has been explained multiple times. When people say "it makes zero sense", what they're really saying is "I don't have the capacity to process sound reasoning".

The team is winning because Will Venable is a great manager. People were still picking this team to lose 100 games this year. Will has this team playing 11 wins better than that pace. The team isn't winning because of the angry posts in game threads. They're winning because of Venable's moves, the lineups, the bullpen usage and the offense.

Did the 2005 White Sox win because Ozzie was a great manager?

I have no issue with the pinch hitting. I think Venable has actually been pretty good in that regard by putting his hitters in favorable situations. I think the bunting has also been scaled way back of late, which is a good thing.

The way he manages a pitching staff is the biggest concern to me. It seems he has no feel. Case in point, leaving Fedde in the game to face Carpenter yesterday and letting Rock die out there today.

40 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Did the 2005 White Sox win because Ozzie was a great manager?

Partially.

5 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Partially.

A team winning doesn't automatically mean the manager is "great". They won because their pitchers were basically unhittable.

13 minutes ago, ron883 said:

A team winning doesn't automatically mean the manager is "great". They won because their pitchers were basically unhittable.

He's certainly helped create an atmosphere where the young players can prosper and be themselves without worrying about veterans swatting them down. He's using the pitching staff he's been given. It's not like he has 5 Cy Young starters, and he's slotting Acuña in there as a 3-inning opener. He's playing the platoons well. He's probably working with the stats department on the lineups, matchups, openers. The players have to execute. Guys like Trevor Richards and Brandon Eisert aren't best in the game. You get what they can give that day.

"The logic behind having the starting pitcher start with the 4th or 7th hitter of the order has been explained multiple times..."

Almost impossible to get it right all the time with the overall lack of quality from the last 3 bullpen options.

That said, there's a massive correlation between winning and scoring/giving up the first run of the game.

Would/should have worked in the Friday night Fedde game vs. Skubal. Just bad luck with the Peters misplay.

15 hours ago, Lightly Folded said:

Venerable doesn’t know how to manage (use) a pitching staff. Let Bove take complete control of all pitching decisions. Venerable is a neophyte manager. He doesn’t know what he doesn’t know.

Dope.

It's hard to argue with success and he seems very steady but some of his line ups leave me shaking my head. Miedroth batting third? Vargas leading off?