3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

We heard that at the deadline too.

And they took on quite a bit of money in the Castillo trade.

5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He doesn’t pay the players if there is a labor impasse. He’s been gifted a dirt cheap lease arrangement for his stadium. What is all the cost he has to endure if there is a long lockout?

Money that could have been earned through ticket sales, parking, concessions, merchandise and advertising.

Remember we are talking about JR here and what matters most to him are finances. No games played means he can't MAKE money.

Plus if there is a long impasse or God forbid basically no season, teams won't be allowed to do anything anyway as long as an agreement isn't reached.

16 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

We heard that at the deadline too.

And they took on money. They weren't spending prospects. Different thing.

8 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Money that could have been earned through ticket sales, parking, concessions, merchandise and advertising.

Remember we are talking about JR here and what matters most to him are finances. No games played means he can't MAKE money.

Plus if there is a long impasse or God forbid basically no season, teams won't be allowed to do anything anyway as long as an agreement isn't reached.

Yeah, I don’t agree with this take at all. You’ve painted him out to be Bob Nutting, whose primary focus is to make a buck. Jerry wants to win, but is risk adverse and doesn’t want to take a loss. We have seen his spending behavior for years. The payroll will ebb & flow with prior year attendance and the next season’s expectations (see chart below). He is a shitty owner for many reasons, but acting like his primary goal is to make money simply isn’t true.

9 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

And they took on quite a bit of money in the Castillo trade.

They dumped a bad contract to do it, and still gave up a prospect to defray the costs instead of taking on the whole thing

I remember really early in the season on one of the podcasts and Peters was mentioned. It was basically who was he and where he came from, basic 101 stuff. He was described as a 26yrs old, plus fielder with good speed but no bat, not enough MLB experience to evaluate.

I look at Doyle, 28 yrs old, 2 GG, great speed, with a previous season 3.9 WAR. I think the risk/reward is worth working on getting his bat back on track. At the very worse you have a stud OF late inning defensive replacement.

1 hour ago, Falstaff said:

I remember really early in the season on one of the podcasts and Peters was mentioned. It was basically who was he and where he came from, basic 101 stuff. He was described as a 26yrs old, plus fielder with good speed but no bat, not enough MLB experience to evaluate.

I look at Doyle, 28 yrs old, 2 GG, great speed, with a previous season 3.9 WAR. I think the risk/reward is worth working on getting his bat back on track. At the very worse you have a stud OF late inning defensive replacement.

Even if he is a bench/platoon player, a GG capable centerfielder for late inning defense on a team that may have Antonacci (also .598 OPS vs LHP) and Bonemer in the outfield isn't the worst thing to have available.

11 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t understand these payroll doomer posts. Jerry has almost always rocked mid tier payrolls when semi competitive. When we were actual contenders, we rocked very higher payrolls. How we spent that money sucked, but the reality is he isn’t nearly as cheap in terms of absolute dollars as some here let on.

The Sox are sitting on a projected $98M payroll for next year. That’s for 26 dudes included all Arb eligible guys. The median Opening Day payroll in the MLB this year was $170M. I’d be SHOCKED if we were below $150M next year and in a normal year we’d be at the median. Regardless, $50M can get you two SPs including one legit TOR guy plus bring back Newcomb & Grichuk (or replace them with comparable talents). There will be at least one big free agent added next year…no doubt about it.

It’s not a doomer post. They aren’t likely going to spend on any position players after adding Doyle and Bart, whom they can bring back next season, along with the players they have coming up next (Bonemer and Roch).

They have already added what they likely believe to be an ace / #2 quality starter in Castillo and a normally solid late innings reliever in Brazoban.

They still have young starters that they will want to give a shot to next year in Schultz, Thorpe, and even Shane Smith to a lesser extent. They will also have other pitchers to fill either a rotation or bullpen role in Hagen Smith, McDougal, etc.

I truly think the trade deadline acquisitions were half of Getz’s next offseason. I could see them signing a cheap veteran starter and some bullpen arms, but I don’t see where they are going to spend all of this money as you stated.

Edited 5 hours ago5 hr by WhiteSox2023

1 hour ago, Falstaff said:

I remember really early in the season on one of the podcasts and Peters was mentioned. It was basically who was he and where he came from, basic 101 stuff. He was described as a 26yrs old, plus fielder with good speed but no bat, not enough MLB experience to evaluate.

I look at Doyle, 28 yrs old, 2 GG, great speed, with a previous season 3.9 WAR. I think the risk/reward is worth working on getting his bat back on track. At the very worse you have a stud OF late inning defensive replacement.

It is fair to say that even Chris Getz doesn't even really believe in Peters, as he has lined up two potential replacements very quickly in Doyle and moving Bonemer to CF.

27 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

It is fair to say that even Chris Getz doesn't even really believe in Peters, as he has lined up two potential replacements very quickly in Doyle and moving Bonemer to CF.

It's smart to do so. Peters has zero track record and his Savant data does not support this performance. He's more like a .700 OPS guy, which is just fine with his defense in a platoon.

5 minutes ago, almagest said:

It's smart to do so. Peters has zero track record and his Savant data does not support this performance. He's more like a .700 OPS guy, which is just fine with his defense in a platoon.

I am not arguing that at all. I don't blame them. I think he has some definite regression coming.

24 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

It’s not a doomer post. They aren’t likely going to spend on any position players after adding Doyle and Bart, whom they can bring back next season, along with the players they have coming up next (Bonemer and Roch).

They have already added what they likely believe to be an ace / #2 quality starter in Castillo and a normally solid late innings reliever in Brazoban.

They still have young starters that they will want to give a shot to next year in Schultz, Thorpe, and even Shane Smith to a lesser extent. They will also have other pitchers to fill either a rotation or bullpen role in Hagen Smith, McDougal, etc.

I truly think the trade deadline acquisitions were half of Getz’s next offseason. I could see them signing a cheap veteran starter and some bullpen arms, but I don’t see where they are going to spend all of this money as you stated.

This offseason is going to be interesting for sure with the uncertainty of how CBA talks shake out and the implications baked therein.

Just as interesting will be potential conversations which open up with other organizations who match up well with us in trades and potential free agents.

Like you said, we’re pretty damn well set on the positional side of the game and using that strength to try matching up with teams who are somewhat hopeless with an ace is what I’m dreaming on.

Pittsburgh and Skenes is the pipe dream and Seattle’s stable of rotation arms is another team which will likely be a focus. How cool would it be for us to be able to bring Skenes in for a number of reasons, one of which being Grant Taylor’s history with him at LSU where they were 1 and 2 in that rotations. ( Taylor was their number 1. )

Skenes is a guy I’d be willing to stand with the Pirates and talk eye to eye on almost any player in or org. Colson, Bonemer, Chase, Psycho Sam, Schultz, Hagen, yada yada.

* Note the use of the term “pipe dream”.

In addition to those paths, we also have discussions that could be had regarding the future of the rotation with guys who are currently in our pen. Grant Taylor, Sean Newcomb, Hagen Smith, etc.

The positional side of this team is diverse and is locked in with intentionally padded fluidity. The rotation will need to be solidified and there are multiple avenues of accomplishing that next goal.

It’s likely we see additions and changes from each of the categories, with them bringing in arms via trade, free agency, and internal promotions from bullpen arms.

We may have 6 months to talk it over to death… we may have 12 months or more even. I’d rather watch paint dry… so please CBA talks… go quickly.

( They won’t. ) 😆

2 hours ago, almagest said:

It's smart to do so. Peters has zero track record and his Savant data does not support this performance. He's more like a .700 OPS guy, which is just fine with his defense in a platoon.

a .700 OPS is still firmly a starting CFer.

1 hour ago, hi8is said:

This offseason is going to be interesting for sure with the uncertainty of how CBA talks shake out and the implications baked therein.

Just as interesting will be potential conversations which open up with other organizations who match up well with us in trades and potential free agents.

Like you said, we’re pretty damn well set on the positional side of the game and using that strength to try matching up with teams who are somewhat hopeless with an ace is what I’m dreaming on.

Pittsburgh and Skenes is the pipe dream and Seattle’s stable of rotation arms is another team which will likely be a focus. How cool would it be for us to be able to bring Skenes in for a number of reasons, one of which being Grant Taylor’s history with him at LSU where they were 1 and 2 in that rotations. ( Taylor was their number 1. )

Skenes is a guy I’d be willing to stand with the Pirates and talk eye to eye on almost any player in or org. Colson, Bonemer, Chase, Psycho Sam, Schultz, Hagen, yada yada.

* Note the use of the term “pipe dream”.

In addition to those paths, we also have discussions that could be had regarding the future of the rotation with guys who are currently in our pen. Grant Taylor, Sean Newcomb, Hagen Smith, etc.

The positional side of this team is diverse and is locked in with intentionally padded fluidity. The rotation will need to be solidified and there are multiple avenues of accomplishing that next goal.

It’s likely we see additions and changes from each of the categories, with them bringing in arms via trade, free agency, and internal promotions from bullpen arms.

We may have 6 months to talk it over to death… we may have 12 months or more even. I’d rather watch paint dry… so please CBA talks… go quickly.

( They won’t. ) 😆

Only concern with Skenes is his velocity is down this year, which seems to be making his offspeed ineffective so he's getting hit harder. He's pitching more like a #2 or #3 this year (at least by ERA). If Pittsburgh is worried about his health then they might be open to trading him, otherwise it'd be unlikely IMO they'd trade him during a down year.

Baseball Savant for the comparison between 2025 and 2026

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

a .700 OPS is still firmly a starting CFer.

For sure. He struggles against lefties though so he's still best in a platoon. Finding a good partner there for him is the right move, and you also have some insurance if he regresses further back to what he was before his Banana Renaissance.

3 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

It’s not a doomer post. They aren’t likely going to spend on any position players after adding Doyle and Bart, whom they can bring back next season, along with the players they have coming up next (Bonemer and Roch).

They have already added what they likely believe to be an ace / #2 quality starter in Castillo and a normally solid late innings reliever in Brazoban.

They still have young starters that they will want to give a shot to next year in Schultz, Thorpe, and even Shane Smith to a lesser extent. They will also have other pitchers to fill either a rotation or bullpen role in Hagen Smith, McDougal, etc.

I truly think the trade deadline acquisitions were half of Getz’s next offseason. I could see them signing a cheap veteran starter and some bullpen arms, but I don’t see where they are going to spend all of this money as you stated.

I mean, I just laid it out. At minimum, we’re adding one TOR starter, Newcomb or replacement, and Grichuk or replacement. Those three alone will likely cost you $40M to $45M. That puts the payroll well below the league medium, which is where Jerry normally operates in semi-competitive seasons. It’s possible they add another depth SP or a better backup C than Bart or Quero.

Rotation next year should be:

1. Burke

2. Free Agent

3. Castillo

4. Kay / Davis

5. Schultz / McDougal / Sandlin / Thorpe / S. Smith

Bullpen should be:

• CL: Taylor

• SU: Newcomb*

• SU: Hicks

• SU: H. Smith*

• MR: Brazoban

• MR: Hudson*

• MR: Murphy*

• LR: Kay / Davis

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

It is fair to say that even Chris Getz doesn't even really believe in Peters, as he has lined up two potential replacements very quickly in Doyle and moving Bonemer to CF.

"Believing" in a player doesn't mean not planning for injury or fall-off.

13 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

"Believing" in a player doesn't mean not planning for injury or fall-off.

Deploying real trade deadline resources and rerouting your top hitting prospect into this position at the same time, does.

34 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I mean, I just laid it out. At minimum, we’re adding one TOR starter, Newcomb or replacement, and Grichuk or replacement. Those three alone will likely cost you $40M to $45M. That puts the payroll well below the league medium, which is where Jerry normally operates in semi-competitive seasons. It’s possible they add another depth SP or a better backup C than Bart or Quero.

Rotation next year should be:

1. Burke

2. Free Agent

3. Castillo

4. Kay / Davis

5. Schultz / McDougal / Sandlin / Thorpe / S. Smith

Bullpen should be:

• CL: Taylor

• SU: Newcomb*

• SU: Hicks

• SU: H. Smith*

• MR: Brazoban

• MR: Hudson*

• MR: Murphy*

• LR: Kay / Davis

Don't forget Vasil will be back

32 minutes ago, DoUEvenShift said:

Don't forget Vasil will be back

He will, but my guess that’s more of a mid season thing if how the rehabs for Adams, Thorpe, Fry (if he alive?), & Berroa (is he alive?) went.

4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

It is fair to say that even Chris Getz doesn't even really believe in Peters, as he has lined up two potential replacements very quickly in Doyle and moving Bonemer to CF.

Or the quick look at Doyle is telling them that Doyle is not an option

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I mean, I just laid it out. At minimum, we’re adding one TOR starter, Newcomb or replacement, and Grichuk or replacement. Those three alone will likely cost you $40M to $45M. That puts the payroll well below the league medium, which is where Jerry normally operates in semi-competitive seasons. It’s possible they add another depth SP or a better backup C than Bart or Quero.

Rotation next year should be:

1. Burke

2. Free Agent

3. Castillo

4. Kay / Davis

5. Schultz / McDougal / Sandlin / Thorpe / S. Smith

Bullpen should be:

• CL: Taylor

• SU: Newcomb*

• SU: Hicks

• SU: H. Smith*

• MR: Brazoban

• MR: Hudson*

• MR: Murphy*

• LR: Kay / Davis

I’m going slightly less than you…

1.) Older former TOR starter (along the lines of a Castillo, Ray, etc. that will demand a decent AAV but only for a couple years.)

2.) Newcomb or replacement

3.) Grichuk or replacement

Edited 38 minutes ago38 min by WhiteSox2023

18 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I’m going slightly less than you…

1.) Older former TOR starter (along the lines of a Castillo, Ray, etc. that will demand a decent AAV but only for a couple years.)

2.) Newcomb or replacement

3.) Grichuk or replacement

#1 is more realistic given the parameters JR insist on forcing his organization to abide by regarding pitchers.

It is what it is - Kenny Williams.

2 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

#1 is more realistic given the parameters JR insist on forcing his organization to abide by regarding pitchers.

It is what it is - Kenny Williams.

I’m also guessing the spending will be around $30 million, maybe $35 million at the most.

Just now, WhiteSox2023 said:

I’m also guessing the spending will be around $30 million, maybe $35 million at the most.

I am guessing that Jerry's spending depends a lot on how much in concessions that Jerry and the Hardliners extract from the players. The worse it is, the more likely he is to spend before spending picks up again.