11 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

When it becomes apparent. Suffice it to say, I'm judging the TDL on different criteria than you. I've laid out my feelings on this multiple times.

I’s respect that, yo. Just call me Jesse Pinkman.

5 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I’s respect that, yo. Just call me Jesse Pinkman.

I mean, reality - Castillo has sucked, and Doyle's been such a non-factor, it doesn't even look like they're platooning him. It wouldn't have mattered if Colson, Mune, Vargas, Meidroth and others hadn't fallen off the table. A few have called it cocky to have brought in projects at the TDL. I don't disagree with any of that, but it looks like the plan was to ignore wherever this team was, and plow forward with the rebuild. It would be nice to still have Mason Adams and Boston Smith, but that's where we are.

4 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I mean, reality - Castillo has sucked, and Doyle's been such a non-factor, it doesn't even look like they're platooning him. It wouldn't have mattered if Colson, Mune, Vargas, Meidroth and others hadn't fallen off the table. A few have called it cocky to have brought in projects at the TDL. I don't disagree with any of that, but it looks like the plan was to ignore wherever this team was, and plow forward with the rebuild. It would be nice to still have Mason Adams and Boston Smith, but that's where we are.

How is trading away prospects for washed up projects plowing forward with the rebuild.

I love a little September slump. Makes for a better October.

Not wondering when we play next.

48 minutes ago, Green Line said:

How is trading away prospects for washed up projects plowing forward with the rebuild.

Especially if as stated many of these guys are in their first year and are "gassed." I think that's the case, which meant getting productive players to help these kids was EVEN MORE imperative at the deadline.

49 minutes ago, Green Line said:

How is trading away prospects for washed up projects plowing forward with the rebuild.

Do you seriously not understand my comment, or are you just trying to get me to respond so you can argue with whatever I post? Plowing forward with the rebuild means they didn't trade any of their top prospects who most probably would have been the price for Reid Detmers. And unless Detmers is an .850 OPS outfielder, I'm not sure what difference he would make.

4 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Especially if as stated many of these guys are in their first year and are "gassed." I think that's the case, which meant getting productive players to help these kids was EVEN MORE imperative at the deadline.

I understand we can argue in theory, but getting "productive players to help these kids" would mean trading for a starting infield, adding two catchers and 3 starting pitchers. I suppose a good GM could just pick all that up for cash considerations and minor leaguers you're about to release.

1 minute ago, WestEddy said:

I understand we can argue in theory, but getting "productive players to help these kids" would mean trading for a starting infield, adding two catchers and 3 starting pitchers. I suppose a good GM could just pick all that up for cash considerations and minor leaguers you're about to release.

Actually in my opinion they just needed two starting pitchers and a hitter. It didn't even have to be a catcher but please continue with your notion of having to basically replace everyone. 😆

Getz f@#$%^ up big time...you know it, I know it and I'm guessing in his heart of hearts he knows it. Although as I've stated to be fair, we don't know what restrictions JR may have placed on him.

15 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Actually in my opinion they just needed two starting pitchers and a hitter. It didn't even have to be a catcher but please continue with your notion of having to basically replace everyone. 😆

Getz f@#$%^ up big time...you know it, I know it and I'm guessing in his heart of hearts he knows it. Although as I've stated to be fair, we don't know what restrictions JR may have placed on him.

The entire offense sucks right now. Maybe Detmers and Clay Holmes pick up a couple of wins for them, but they'd cost Bonemer and more. Beyond them, pitchers at the deadline are a coinflip.

If Vargas, Colson, Meidroth and Mune weren't in the toilet for a few weeks, now, they're running away with the division. I understand why people are unhappy with the TDL, but "f@#$%^ up big time" is a bit much. He took on Castillo's salary. I think the restrictions he placed on himself were "don't spend on rentals, and don't give up top prospects". You know, you could just talk about a TDL that didn't work out as intended without shoe-horning in your favorite conspiracy theory that Reinsdorf gave orders to mess up so he could keep more money to rub all over his body.

27 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Actually in my opinion they just needed two starting pitchers and a hitter. It didn't even have to be a catcher but please continue with your notion of having to basically replace everyone. 😆

Getz f@#$%^ up big time...you know it, I know it and I'm guessing in his heart of hearts he knows it. Although as I've stated to be fair, we don't know what restrictions JR may have placed on him.

Honestly he didn't. This team wasn't THAT good. He knew it, which is why he didn't really add, and did the minimum

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Honestly he didn't. This team wasn't THAT good. He knew it, which is why he didn't really add, and did the minimum

You may be right but if that's the case he better hope that sentiment doesn't go public because the fan base will be after him with pitchforks for wasting a possible playoff opportunity. (To say nothing for how the players would react...)

I use the term that the Sox make the playoffs about as often as Republicans win the Mayorship of Chicago.

When you get half a chance to do so, you have to take it.

4 hours ago, WestEddy said:

Do you seriously not understand my comment, or are you just trying to get me to respond so you can argue with whatever I post? Plowing forward with the rebuild means they didn't trade any of their top prospects who most probably would have been the price for Reid Detmers. And unless Detmers is an .850 OPS outfielder, I'm not sure what difference he would make.

I seriously dont understand your comments. If you think that was obvious it wasnt.

10 hours ago, Snopek said:

I think Autumn Dreamin is one of the best posters on the site. Everyone on here has their share of god awful takes. To each their own I guess.

I don't get it. This is a White Sox fan site right ? I mean we're supposed to be White Sox supporters. I find it so odd and genuinely disturbing that certain people thrive or appear to be in their element when their favorite team is going through a rough stretch. Is there a point to calling out people who basically root for the team all the time ?

13 hours ago, WestEddy said:

The entire offense sucks right now. Maybe Detmers and Clay Holmes pick up a couple of wins for them, but they'd cost Bonemer and more. Beyond them, pitchers at the deadline are a coinflip.

If Vargas, Colson, Meidroth and Mune weren't in the toilet for a few weeks, now, they're running away with the division. I understand why people are unhappy with the TDL, but "f@#$%^ up big time" is a bit much. He took on Castillo's salary. I think the restrictions he placed on himself were "don't spend on rentals, and don't give up top prospects". You know, you could just talk about a TDL that didn't work out as intended without shoe-horning in your favorite conspiracy theory that Reinsdorf gave orders to mess up so he could keep more money to rub all over his body.

Your post is basically a bunch of excuse-making for Getz and his deadline moves.

1.) You don’t know what other starting pitchers would have cost but are throwing out names like Bonemer. There were also cheaper rentals available that were moved. If Getz only targeted non-rentals, that’s on him. Afterall, does anyone even want to see Castillo or Doyle next season? Everyone is wishing they were rentals right about now.

2.) GM’s add additional players at the deadline to account for their deficiencies, including factoring in slumps by players. Afterall, isn’t that one of the reasons Getz acquired Doyle? Because Peters was in a horrible slump?

In any case, Getz’s deadline moves have been an unmitigated disaster and I have no idea how you can keep trying to excuse it. Post-deadline winning percentage was the first excuse. Then it was that the Sox are still in first place once their winning percentage fell to under .500 post-deadline. What’s the next excuse of these deadline trades? That they just won a game against the Cardinals?

Yes, "f@#$%^ up big time" is accurate.

Edited 8 hours ago8 hr by WhiteSox2023

23 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Yeah, her analysis was so spot on, calling PCA an overrated bust that wasn’t worth his contract extension. Questioning that his contract extension would be worth it. Oops. Good prediction there on the NL MVP. 🤣

She literally had a grudge against a prospect that she watched in the minors, and admitted to such. That’s why I laugh and have pretty much ignored her posts going forward.

My man…this is terrible

Angels:

• SS Arjun Nimmala (top prospect)

• OF Eddie Micheletti Jr.

• RHP Angel Rivero

Why were the ONLY choices Detmer and Holmes?

For example, would this above-highlighted return have killed the farm system for Jose Soriano, much younger, with an explosive FB and under contract TWO more years?

Mahle went to the Braves for very little...there's yet another choice.

Robbie Ray didn't cost a king's ransom, for example. They had the 30th ranked system, the Sox around 15th. SD still managed to keep Ethan Salas, their top prospect, who is only 0/14 but a superlative defender at least.

(They're also getting away with Dustin Harris and Austin Hays in the OF to the tune of 11 games over .500 now.)

Caleb Bonemer was the only Sox prospect teams were interested in...really? Him or nothing?

Well we know that's not true because of Boston Smith and Mason Adams,not to mention SS Vielma.

Getz has made moves that got this team to .500 a couple years faster than many here thought. For the first time in years we were buyers at the trade deadline and his moves didn't pan out. They were risks and I'm certain the organization knew they were risks. You can make good decisions and have them not work out. Like the lotto tickets I just threw away.

I am interested in what the organization can do with Castillo when they have an entire off season to prepare for next year. It will tell a lot about the organization if they can turn him around. It's been two decades since this sort of project worked out regularly for the team.

7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Angels:

• SS Arjun Nimmala (top prospect)

• OF Eddie Micheletti Jr.

• RHP Angel Rivero

Why were the ONLY choices Detmer and Holmes?

For example, would this above-highlighted return have killed the farm system for Jose Soriano, much younger, with an explosive FB and under contract TWO more years?

Mahle went to the Braves for very little...there's yet another choice.

Robbie Ray didn't cost a king's ransom, for example. They had the 30th ranked system, the Sox around 15th. SD still managed to keep Ethan Salas, their top prospect, who is only 0/14 but a superlative defender at least.

(They're also getting away with Dustin Harris and Austin Hays in the OF to the tune of 11 games over .500 now.)

Caleb Bonemer was the only Sox prospect teams were interested in...really? Him or nothing?

Well we know that's not true because of Boston Smith and Mason Adams,not to mention SS Vielma.

I'm picking two examples to not write a novel.

The supposed goal was to not trade Bonemer or sell low on Carlson. So yes, the Nimmala package would have put a serious dent in our farm system. Robbie Ray's post-deadline work would have everyone screaming that Castillo was available.

Boston Smith, Mason Adams and Vielma aren't the same level of prospect as Bonemer.

7 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Hertz has made moves that got this team to .500 a couple years faster than many here thought. For the first time in years we were buyers at the trade deadline and his moves didn't pan out. They were risks and I'm certain the organization knew they were risks. You can make good decisions and have them not work out. Like the lotto tickets I just threw away.

I am interested in what the organization can do with Castillo when they have an entire off season to prepare for next year. It will tell a lot about the organization if they can turn him around. It's been two decades since this sort of project worked out regularly for the team.

So your normal time frame for being "competitive" (3-7 games over .500) in the AL Central is actually 4-5 seasons and not three to show major progress...keeping in mind Chris GEtz was also at least partially responsible for putting them in that position in the first place?

Baseball has proven time and time again that flying near the top and sustaining it like the Brewers and Rays (Astros and Padres too) is much much difficult than what the Baltimore Orioles, Royals/Tigers or 2019-21 White Sox accomplished.

Not to mention Houston is still fired their GM Brown and likely manager Joe Espada too will go in a matter of weeks.

Edited 6 hours ago6 hr by caulfield12

11 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I'm picking two examples to not write a novel.

The supposed goal was to not trade Bonemer or sell low on Carlson. So yes, the Nimmala package would have put a serious dent in our farm system. Robbie Ray's post-deadline work would have everyone screaming that Castillo was available.

Boston Smith, Mason Adams and Vielma aren't the same level of prospect as Bonemer.

Then they don't have as much of a farm system as you thought.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/player/gamelog/_/id/32175/robbie-ray

Team is 3-4 over his 7 SD starts and an EXPIRING contract and that is 100x better than being stuck with him next year.

Nobody would lay their starts/appearances down next to each other and choose Castillo head to head.

But we can also compare Mason Adams to Doyle, too. That's even more one sides since Adams is 1/50th the cost in a more difficult pitching environment.

Edited 6 hours ago6 hr by caulfield12

Just for you @caulfield12 I even feel like fully processing this response. I believe you will be delighted in the reference. I've been waiting to use it.

I’ll concede that Getz has made mistakes, but I’m thoroughly enjoying this season. After the last few years, being a White Sox fan had become positively Beckettian: endless waiting, diminishing expectations, and the nagging suspicion that the thing we were waiting for might not exist.

And yet, here we are in September, playing meaningful baseball.

Apparently Godot showed up. He’s just a couple of years late and has questionable roster-construction skills.

5 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Just for you @caulfield12 I even feel like fully processing this response. I believe you will be delighted in the reference. I've been waiting to use it.

I’ll concede that Getz has made mistakes, but I’m thoroughly enjoying this season. After the last few years, being a White Sox fan had become positively Beckettian: endless waiting, diminishing expectations, and the nagging suspicion that the thing we were waiting for might not exist.

And yet, here we are in September, playing meaningful baseball.

Apparently Godot showed up. He’s just a couple of years late and has questionable roster-construction skills.

He's made JR 35-40% more revenue this season...so there's definitely that to consider.

Outside of the literary references.

(And One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest with Mike Shirley.)

Better than The Bell Jar of 2023-25!!!

2 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Your post is basically a bunch of excuse-making for Getz and his deadline moves.

1.) You don’t know what other starting pitchers would have cost but are throwing out names like Bonemer. There were also cheaper rentals available that were moved. If Getz only targeted non-rentals, that’s on him. Afterall, does anyone even want to see Castillo or Doyle next season? Everyone is wishing they were rentals right about now.

2.) GM’s add additional players at the deadline to account for their deficiencies, including factoring in slumps by players. Afterall, isn’t that one of the reasons Getz acquired Doyle? Because Peters was in a horrible slump?

In any case, Getz’s deadline moves have been an unmitigated disaster and I have no idea how you can keep trying to excuse it. Post-deadline winning percentage was the first excuse. Then it was that the Sox are still in first place once their winning percentage fell to under .500 post-deadline. What’s the next excuse of these deadline trades? That they just won a game against the Cardinals?

Yes, "f@#$%^ up big time" is accurate.

Wait, I don't know that the ask for other, more controllable pitchers was cost-prohibitive, but you know of other pitchers that were available for cheaper? Let's have that list and what those teams were asking. This is all the same "We coulda had Keaschal!!!!" BS. The FO picks a direction, then you get to crow all of the paths not taken. They have Jesus Bart, now. Why didn't they clinch yet? I'd love to hear your excuse for that.

No, "f@#$%^ up big time" is just another excuse from the glum excuse crowd.

Waiting for a move to play out before I start screaming like a child isn't "making excuses".

16 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Then they don't have as much of a farm system as you thought.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/player/gamelog/_/id/32175/robbie-ray

Team is 3-4 over his 7 SD starts and an EXPIRING contract and that is 100x better than being stuck with him next year.

Nobody would lay their starts/appearances down next to each other and choose Castillo head to head.

But we can also compare Mason Adams to Doyle, too. That's even more one sides since Adams is 1/50th the cost in a more difficult pitching environment.

WTF are you even talking about, "as you thought"? They promoted most of their top 10 of a not-very-deep middle third system, and are probably bottom third now. They have the exact farm system as I thought.

San Diego's 3-4 in Robbie Ray's starts because their offense isn't hitting .100 over the month of September.

Mason Adams is a pitcher, and Doyle is an OF, so I'm not sure what the comparison is.