beck72 Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Does anyone else sense a similar ring between the lead up to the Sox getting Garcia via trade, with the news the Sox seem intent on getting Randy Johnson? Word was the Sox were willing to "top any offer" for Freddy. Sea. went around trying to get more out of other teams. Yet went with the Sox in the end. With the Daily Southtown article, saying the Sox will be going after RJ hard, after KW tried 4 times to acquire RJ in 2004, a similar scenario makes sense that the sox will have a tough trade offer for Ariz. to decline. My guess is RJ would have two years left in his tank. Seeing how RJ has veto power over any trade, the team he'd OK being traded too would probably be the team he'd resign with for 2006. As RJ supposedly said the Sox would be a team he'd go to, if he wanted to pith again in 2006 the Sox would probably resign him [if he brought the Sox to the playoffs in 2005] I first thought Lee might be made available to Ariz. Yet it doesn't make sense for them. They only have Gonzalez and RJ set to make good moeny for 2005. Trading both to help rebuild makes sense. Their AAA team was 74-70, and the rookies who played in the majors really didn't have much of an impact. Only 3B Chad Tracy did well. 2B Scott Hairston was OK. Yet AZ's AA team was horrible--48-89. doesn't look like they'll be good for a few years. Their high A team was 86-54, though. If the Sox got RJ, a trade of Carlos Lee for prospects to another team to help rebuild those lost to Ariz. makes the most sense. Some of the big names I wouldn't trade would be Anderson, Sweeney, B-Mac, or Honel. Still I don't see many teams trading an "impact player" near the bigs for RJ, and don't think the Sox should. Maybe a 10 ten prospect from the lower levels, along with other decent prospects from the upper levels could get it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 If Arizona traded RJ to us, you can bet that one of BMac, Sweeney or Anderson would be gone. Plus others of course. I'd stay away from RJ just because I have a feeling we would end up giving up way too much for him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 I don't see why the D-Backs would trade him for someone with only 1-2 years left before free agency. They're trying to rebuild. I would imagine they'd be looking for young, cheap, good guys that will be around for at least 3-4 years. A guy like Rowand I would guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Is there some confirmation from KW that he "tried" to get Randy as hard as the papers are saying..? Because from everything I heard he called once and the conversation was not nearly as serious as they are reporting it was.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 I don't see why the D-Backs would trade him for someone with only 1-2 years left before free agency. They're trying to rebuild. I would imagine they'd be looking for young, cheap, good guys that will be around for at least 3-4 years. A guy like Rowand I would guess. Because the Unit won't be around much longer either. At least with FA eligible guys you have a chance at resigning them. When Randy goes out to pasture that is all. He Gawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 This looks like another situation where we are goin to give our young guys away again!! yea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Of Love Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 I'd stay away from RJ just because I have a feeling we would end up giving up way too much for him I'm not sure I understand that sentiment. If the Sox get RJ, they will have to give up a boatload for him....but there's a reason for that. Is there a more dominant pitcher in baseball nowadays than the Unit? If the Sox want a top 3 pitcher, they're going to have to pay through the nose for him. Also, what of the conversations KW supposedly had trying to get RJ? Were there serious talks, or are we just talkin about a phone call or two?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 I'd do this deal if the Dbacks wanted major league helped, namely Konerko and Lee. Then the Sox would have to get serious in their talks about Beltran and have him as one of the key bats in the middle. However, I think the most likely possibility would be Lee/Garland and a prospect or Konerko/Garland and a prospect. Sox then take on roughly half of RJ's costs and the Dbacks get some guys that they can market and use now and that should help them in the future. One thing I want to say is the Dbacks have absolutely ZERO interest in Joe Crede. Chady Tracey (Or Tracy) is a very good prospect, one that I'd rate higher then Joe Crede. He did good last year and is also solid defensively, so don't think that they would move him to 1B. If the Sox dealt Konerko and Lee, the reason I wouldn't mind it is because you can find guys like that. However, I think the Dbacks want to also dump payroll, which is why I think only one or the other would go. Sure they'd love Arow/Garland/Bmac or Anderson or Sweeney, but if thats what it would take i'd probably tell the Dbacks to scrwe off. Of course their is the part of me that thinks..maybe Arow is a one year wonder and he won't ever produce like he did this year...maybe Garland never lives up to his hype and then its like your giving up a prospect and two maybes for RJ. If some dream way the Sox had RJ and Beltran and didn't give up Arow or Garland, I'd be hella happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 Is there some confirmation from KW that he "tried" to get Randy as hard as the papers are saying..? Because from everything I heard he called once and the conversation was not nearly as serious as they are reporting it was.. the southtown reported [either on Sat or Sun] that KW called Ariz. four times last year, and is intent on calling them after the World series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 If Arizona traded RJ to us, you can bet that one of BMac, Sweeney or Anderson would be gone. Plus others of course. I'd stay away from RJ just because I have a feeling we would end up giving up way too much for him Well, Boston certainly didn't give up any of their top prospects to get Schilling. They gave up two fringe major league pitchers, a AA prospect and a PTBNL. If I were the Sox I would think of giving at best a Chris Young type, who would be years away but w/ other guys in front of him at his position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 I don't see why the D-Backs would trade him for someone with only 1-2 years left before free agency. They're trying to rebuild. I would imagine they'd be looking for young, cheap, good guys that will be around for at least 3-4 years. A guy like Rowand I would guess. That's what I said, that Lee prob. wouldn't be a good fit for Ariz, as they need plenty of help and not much in the top minors for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Chances are slim to none that he would come here, i don't care what the has been reportedly said. Makes no sense to trade 3-4 players that have multiple years left on their contracts for if we are lucky 1 full year of johnson. We would be greating a couple holes with the players we trade for him and we would not be able to fill them up most likely since we are gonna have trouble filling the holes we have now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 the southtown reported [either on Sat or Sun] that KW called Ariz. four times last year, and is intent on calling them after the World series. OK. I'm gonna wait till I hear something from Kenny on this though. Until then I think it's just exaggerated bologna.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Don't wanna Sacrafice the Farm for a one year player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 I'm not sure I understand that sentiment. If the Sox get RJ, they will have to give up a boatload for him....but there's a reason for that. Is there a more dominant pitcher in baseball nowadays than the Unit? If the Sox want a top 3 pitcher, they're going to have to pay through the nose for him. Also, what of the conversations KW supposedly had trying to get RJ? Were there serious talks, or are we just talkin about a phone call or two?? I was going by this article http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/ds.../pro/241sd7.htm If it's true that 4 calls were made, that seems like a strong effort to get RJ rather than just a feeler call Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 Don't wanna Sacrafice the Farm for a one year player I don't want to sacrifice the farm either. Yet the Schilling [2 pitchers like Cotts and Adkins--Fossom and Brandon Lyon--and two minor league pitchers] and the Sexton trades [only Overbay was a top 10 prospect] show that key players can be had w/o giving up an entire farm system. Yet the 2005 Sox w/ an ace like Randy Johnson would be tough. RJ should probably be had for less than both Schilling and Sexton though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Don't get me wrong, I would lose to see Johnson on the Sox, but the FA market is very deep when it comes to starting pitching. Why not sign a decent starter for about 6-7M? The Sox would save money that they can use to address other weaknesses. The pitcher they sign will certainly be younger than Johnson, in the prime of his career, and with the Sox for more than 1 year. The Sox wouldn't have to give up current players/prospects, which would create more holes. It just makes more sense(in both the long and short term) for a team like the Sox to sign a starter from the FA market opposed to trading for Johnson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 RJ should probably be had for less than both Schilling and Sexton though. You would think so but the way arizona is talking is that they want major league ready talent. And alot of it. They never said that with schilling, they just wanted to dump his salary. I don't think they care as much if they get rid of johnson because he is a big draw. Some sucker team will overpay for him he will pitch a few games and be injured for the rest of the year and then they are f***ed for a couple years that is how i see it happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 Makes no sense to trade 3-4 players that have multiple years left on their contracts for if we are lucky 1 full year of johnson. We would be greating a couple holes with the players we trade for him and we would not be able to fill them up most likely since we are gonna have trouble filling the holes we have now. Would signing a #3 SP to a long term contract [3, 4 yrs at $8 mill a yr], when the sox have 3 guys signed for the next 3 yrs, make more sense? Getting a stud #1 for one yr possibly two does make sense. Esp. if the sox don't have to trade key guys or prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 I don't want to sacrifice the farm either. Yet the Schilling [2 pitchers like Cotts and Adkins--Fossom and Brandon Lyon--and two minor league pitchers] and the Sexton trades [only Overbay was a top 10 prospect] show that key players can be had w/o giving up an entire farm system. Yet the 2005 Sox w/ an ace like Randy Johnson would be tough. RJ should probably be had for less than both Schilling and Sexton though. I think you are underestimating what Arizona got for Shilling. Sure it didn't turn out as planned, but Fossom and Lyon are not comparable to Cotts and Adkins. Fossom was a pretty talented young lefty who had some sucess in the majors mixed in with some struggles(similar to Garland). Lyon was a young power arm in the BoSox pen who had closer potential(not quite as good as Marte, but closer to Marte than Adkins). De Rosa was one of the BoSox top pitching prospects(Tracey would be a good comparison). So if you want to look at the Shilling trade for a comparison, than it would be similar to the Sox giving up Garland, Marte, and Tracey. Furthermore, Arizona will probably learn from the Shilling trade and request more PROVEN major leaguers instead, so please quit pretending that the Sox can get Johnson for a marginal prospect and a bag of balls. Like I mentioned in a previous post, you brag about how good Johnson is and would be for the Sox, than want to offer Arizona garbage in return. If he is so good, than why would they take garbage for him? Furthermore, as Rex pointed out in the other thread, this isn't a strict salary dump(although they do want to free up some money). Johnson is the only reason that fans go to Bank One Park(trust me I live in Arizona...he is also the only player that most Arizona residents can name on the team). The only way to justify trading Johnson is to improve the team in the short and long term. Finally, you have to also realize that most of the big boys will be after Johnson as well, which would make it easier for Arizona to reject the trash you think the Sox should offer them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Would signing a #3 SP to a long term contract [3, 4 yrs at $8 mill a yr], when the sox have 3 guys signed for the next 3 yrs, make more sense? Getting a stud #1 for one yr possibly two does make sense. Esp. if the sox don't have to trade key guys or prospects. Yes i would rather sign someone for the simple fact it will not create multiple holes we didn't have in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Is there some confirmation from KW that he "tried" to get Randy as hard as the papers are saying..? Because from everything I heard he called once and the conversation was not nearly as serious as they are reporting it was.. I recalled Bruce Levine talking about KW going to the owners of the Sox about getting RJ back over the summer and talking to Arizona's GM a few times. I can't recall hearing that the Sox had an offer on the table for Arizona though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 I recalled Bruce Levine talking about KW going to the owners of the Sox about getting RJ back over the summer and talking to Arizona's GM a few times. I can't recall hearing that the Sox had an offer on the table for Arizona though. If Randy wasn't interested in waving his no trade clause, there was no point in it getting to the making an offer stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 If Randy wasn't interested in waving his no trade clause, there was no point in it getting to the making an offer stage. I recall Randy being quoted as saying he was asked nothing about a trade also. Which is what makes me think this is all media hype and nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Would signing a #3 SP to a long term contract [3, 4 yrs at $8 mill a yr], when the sox have 3 guys signed for the next 3 yrs, make more sense? Getting a stud #1 for one yr possibly two does make sense. Esp. if the sox don't have to trade key guys or prospects. I'm with you on that one.... Signing another pitcher to a long term deal could really financially trap this team... MB and FG are signed for 3 more seasons, JC for 2. adding another long term contract to that would be very risky... 1) if they don't perform to expectations, you can't get rid of the contract. 2) if one of them gets injured, there's $$$ being tied up in a guy who's not even playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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