rangercal Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 QUOTE(WhiteSox2005MB @ Apr 7, 2005 -> 05:16 PM) Let's take it to the Live Chat everyone! FIELD TRIP!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Ill hold off from chatting with 12 year olds in chat rooms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Ill hold off from chatting with 12 year olds in chat rooms <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why? It's great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighHeat45 Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 The java thing wont load in the chat for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Master Buehrle Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 We have a retard on board, I see. :banghead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 I dont want to get in trouble like last time I chatted with a 12 year old in a chat room Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 QUOTE(rangercal @ Apr 7, 2005 -> 05:18 PM) Ill hold off from chatting with 12 year olds in chat rooms Its good clean fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 QUOTE(rangercal @ Apr 7, 2005 -> 05:20 PM) I dont want to get in trouble like last time I chatted with a 12 year old in a chat room gross! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Apr 7, 2005 -> 05:19 PM) Why? It's great! Maybe this time It might be great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 QUOTE(rangercal @ Apr 7, 2005 -> 05:21 PM) Maybe this time It might be great thats it! go for it! take risks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 This is all shingos fault! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 This is all shingos fault! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He gets 3 angry's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 I didn't see this one so I'm Just looking at the play-by-play log The loss falls on Vizcaino's & Ozzie's shoulders. Why is Cotts pitching the 7th when it was determined last year or ST that Politte was most effective as a 7th IN man. The game was probably lost right here, because it gave CLE hope. Cotts left Politte a RON (1,3) w 1 out. Politte gave up a SF & was replaced with Marte. Marte got the final out. CLE 2, CWS 5 Then Ozzie relieves Marte with Hermanson in the 8th. Again why did he do this? Marte looked good in the 7th & he's the highest paid arm in our pen. He's accomplished more as a CWS than Herm has. All of the numbers say leave Marte in to pitch the 8th. Herm pitched a scoreless 8th. Oz used up Cotts, Politte, Marte, & Herm to get to the 9th. Leaving Shingo, Vizc, & Garland left. I say Garland because the off day left Oz with the flexibility of skipping a Garland start. CLE 2, CWS 5 Top 9th: Cleveland - R. Gload at first - S. Takatsu relieved D. Hermanson - C. Blake homered to deep left CLE 3, CWS 5 - G. Sizemore struck out looking, J. Bard flied out to center 2OUTS - C. Crisp homered to deep right CLE 4, CWS 5 STOP RIGHT HERE. CARDINAL RULE: YOU DO NOT LEAVE A PEN GUY IN THE GAME AFTER HE HAS SERVED UP TWO HR's & THE TYING RUN COMES TO THE PLATE. - R. Belliard homered to deep left CLE 5, CWS 5 - T. Hafner walked - V. Martinez singled to center, T. Hafner to second 2 out, RON (1,2) - L. Vizcaino relieved S. Takatsu - A. Boone popped out to shallow right VIZC goes on to get the next 4 outs. CLE 5, CWS 5 Top 11th: Cleveland - J. Hernandez walked - J. Hernandez caught stealing, catcher to shortstop - C. Crisp singled to pitcher STOP RIGHT HERE. Vizc is clearly struggling. Despite Ozzie's mishandling of the pen up to this point he can still relieve Vizc with Garland. The off day gives him that option. The rest is history. Vizc goes on to give up 6 RUNS before retiring the side. WHAT OZ SHOULD HAVE DONE: - 7th IN : relived Contreras w Politte (THAT'S HIS ROLE!) If he gets in trouble you can bring in either Cotts or Marte. If using Marte DO NOT make him a 1 out pitcher. -8th IN: If Marte is used in the 7th let him pitch the 8th. Otherwise Herm. The bottom line being either Marte or Herm being avail in the 9th. -9th IN: When the tying run came to the plate after Shingo had served up 2 HR's, you replace him. Pick one from Vizc, (Herm/Marte). -11th IN: Vizc clearly was laboring. You have the benefit of the off day to start Buerhle in Minn. Replace him with Garland or Herm/Marte if they are still available. THIS LOSS CLEARLY LIES ON OZZIE's SHOULDERS. WE HAVE BEEN TOLD ALL OFF-SEASON LONG ABOUT CLE'S LINEUP BEING ARGUABLY THE 2ND BEST in the AL this year. YOU DON'T LEAVE SHINGO IN AFTER WHAT HE DID & YOU DON'T LEAVE VIZC IN AFTER WHAT HE DID AT THE TOP OF THE 11TH. BAD BAD BAD BAD. SOMEONE KICK THE WIZARD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 I don't understand how Viz can shoulder any of the blame. Yes, he gave up the winning runs, but he should never be out there that long. Ozzie messed up by hooking the relievers that do have the ablilty to go longer, way earlier than he ever should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 (edited) If you're a closer you shouldn't blow a 3 run lead in 1 inning. Oz had his closer in 3 run lead, 3 outs to get. AND he had a reliever to back him up. No, Shingo s*** his damn pants and gave up 3 runs with 3 outs. That's horrible. Edited April 8, 2005 by WHarris1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 (edited) Can someone interesting in compiling statistics research how many pitchers with 30+ saves gave up three home runs in one inning. Then, how many below 30 (minimum 20) gave up three home runs in one inning. Edited April 8, 2005 by Flash Tizzle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Apr 7, 2005 -> 07:37 PM) Can someone interesting in compiling statistics research how many pitchers with 30+ saves gave up three home runs in one inning. Then, how many below 30 (minimum 20) gave up three home runs in one inning. No one's interested in doing that -- Well maybe jugger, but that's another story. -- About 95% of Innings have 3 or less runs. That should answer your question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 Let's see where the numbers lie in today's game. Top 7th: Cleveland: Sizemore, Peralta, Crisp, Belliard/Cora, Hafner Do you use Politte or Cotts? vs Sizemore, Peralta: adv Politte vs Crisp: adv Cotts vs Belliard:adv Politte vs Cora: adv Politte vs Hafner: adv Politte Start w Politte & use Cotts if he gets in trouble. Top 8th: Cleveland: Martinez, Boone, Broussard vs Belliard: adv Marte vs Cora: adv Herm vs Hafner: adv Marte vs Martinez: adv Herm vs Boone: adv Herm vs Broussard: adv Marte Start with Hermanson & use Marte if he gets in trouble. You go with Shingo in the 9th because he's the closer, but after the 2nd HR w the tying run at the plate you have to take him out. Top 9th: Cleveland: Belliard, Hafner, Martinez, Boone Having saved Marte he can now come in & face Belliard & Hafner. Two guys where the numbers favor Marte. This is a very tough loss because Oz managed away a quality/dominant start by Jose Contreras. I hope he realizes that & learns from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 For those wishing to give Oz the benefit of the doubt consider this: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/pitchi...Type=2&type=std What you see in the numbers is that Marte dominated CLE more than Shingo last year. What's more if you look at the game logs CLE got to Shingo in the 2nd 1/2 last year (3ER in 1 ball game). Did we not start the year with doubts that Shingo could hold the closer position? Were those doubts not furthered by a weak ST by Shingo? A good manager takes this in consideration & says I need to save Marte to backup Shingo. It's the logical thing to do. You can sit there & say if Shingo does his job then Oz did nothing wrong. That's BS. A manager does NOT manage a team hoping or expecting for his guys to get the job done. He's suppose to think worst case. He's suppose to use the pen based on the odds presented to him. Oz clearly did not do that today. Maybe he forgot he only had 6 arms in the pen. If you need someone to blame point the finger at the Wizard. I'm pretty pissed off by this loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 Jugg, jmho, but I think you should put down your stat horn until you have some concept of 'sample size' and 'significant difference'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 Jugg, jmho, but I think you should put down your stat horn until you have some concept of 'sample size' and 'significant difference'. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> IMHO, you should think before you write. When I give an adv to a pitcher I don't base it on a sample size of < 10 AB. Which in this case was the norm. I base it on overall performance, splits, situations, & how a relief pitcher has performed in a specific role. That's what determines the significant difference. Here's a question for you to ponder to see how much you know about how momentum plays a role in a baseball game. Are the ChiSox more likely to win this game if Politte relieves Contreras? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 Ozzie blew this game... well maybe not but his bullpen moves were horrid. This most definitely needs to be improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 Why Oz should have started the 7th with Politte: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...ching&year=2004 Politte 04: Pitches 1-15 132AB .250 .286 .424 .710 Pitches 16-30 53AB .226 .382 .302 .684 Pitches 31-45 13AB .538 .625 .846 1.471 Cotts 04: Pitches 1-15 133AB .203 .291 .263 .555 Pitches 16-30 82AB .329 .415 .695 1.110 Pitches 31-45 27AB .222 .300 .556 .856 Pitches 46-60 5AB .200 .333 .800 1.133 What does that tell you? That Cotts is at best a situational arm in the pen. There's enough there to make that assessment. He should never be the first arm out of the pen in the 7th inning when the team is winning. Do I believe the ChiSox win this game if Oz has Politte pitch the 7th? Yes. It could have stiffled that momentum which would have made it much more difficult for CLE to come back in the 9th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 QUOTE(WhiteSox2005MB @ Apr 7, 2005 -> 06:00 PM) What is Bizarro Soxtalk? Its what all you little boys sit and obsess about. You just can't handle being away from us. All you do is think of ways to try to get back on here, and that is so darned cute. Even with your own little made up world, you still have to be posessed with what is going on here. I can understand though because this is so much better than the alternative. And of course you agree or you wouldn't take the time to make up new emails so that you can register and post here over and over again. We'll see you all soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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