Trade w NSiders

[upnorthsox]

The Pabst Blue Ribbon crowd is more like it.

 

 

Well you can take the boy out of the trailer but you can't take the trash out of the..................

 

[LosMediasBlancas]

I can't believe this is even a discussion, NO way the Cubs would trade Lee for Shingo.

I wouldn't take LaToya on this team if he came for free. NO THX.

[Wedge]

Jabroni, you stole my old avatar from when I was "MoreCowbell"

 

And to answer the poll: NO! You never trade a cheap and capable bull-pen arm, much less an established closer.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Wow! Did this thread spiral out of control quickly? Who said anything about Karsay to the WSox? Hell No!

 

This was very simple:

The Cubs have a GG 1B who can hit for both average & power with better than average speed to avoid GIDPs in one Derrick Lee. They have this locked up to a reasonable contract (below his market value) for several yrs.

 

The White Sox have a proven closer in Shingo & a proven HR hitter in Konerko. However; Shingo is an RFA & Koney is UFA in 2006. Yes this trade helps the Cubs but only for this season. Whereas the trade helps the WSox for several seasons.

 

Koney would have to fall off his career #'s badly not to get a Sexson or Drew like contract. His next contract is a 5yr deal & I don't see the WSox paying that.

 

Shingo is no longer cheap either. The Shingo bashing needs to stop.

He now has 8 SV's following a yr where he had 19 SV's. He was the best 15 pitch man in the AL in 2004. His 2005 #'s are misleading. He's faced 4 teams (CLE, DET, KC, MIN, SEA). He had trouble w CLE & MIN in 2004 & still has trouble with them. But he's handled DET & KC w/out a problem.

He's on a pace for 40 SV's & if he reaches that we're talking a 20M+/3yr deal.

 

So as I view them they are essentially rental players. The White Sox could offer them arbitration (Type A) to get compensation picks for them at the end of the season. If I were KW I would do just that. I would have done it for Maggs as well. I've never had a problem with retaining stars 1 yr at a time through Type A arbitration. A compensation pick from the Tigers is a high pick.

 

So if we were to trade for D Lee now it would likely cost us 2 compensation picks plus Shingo & Konerko. Maybe the Cubs should sweeten the deal. Not Hawkins. He's over-priced for a setup man & everyone incl Minny knew he didn't have the mindset to be a closer. They tried him & he failed.

I don't want any of their struggling or garbage players either. It's D Lee or no trade.

 

Keep in mind that the WSox are in the driver's seat in this trade. Their need for D Lee is far smaller than the Flubs need for Shingo. We dictate terms. I pity their injuries but they have no closer & are going no where until they get one.

 

My life long dream has always been for the White Sox to sweep the Flubs in the World Series.

[TLAK]

My life long dream has always been for the White Sox to sweep the Flubs in the World Series.

I don't ever want to see the blue vermin in the Series, even against the White Sox. I hope they continue to lose every single game left in the season, and the stupider they do it the better.

[GoodAsGould]

Maybe this will help people like the trade more. Dont think of Derrick Lee as being a cubby, think of him being part of the world champion Marlins who beat the cubs in the playoffs and prevented them from winning a WS.

[JUGGERNAUT]

I didn't read the fine print of D Lee's contract. It appears he got a $2M signing bonus spread over 3 yrs on top of his base.

2005: $7.7M or $1.283M/mo

2006: $8.6M

 

2005: Koney + Shingo = $11.25M or $1.875M/mo. If the WSox were to make this trade in Jun (before NL play) they would save about $2.4M this year. Is that worth 2 compensation picks? Probably not. The Cubs should throw in a good ml arm as well.

 

Again we don't have to make this trade. It's a trade you make to help you in the future as much as it helps you now.

 

Assuming he's healthy I think A Munoz could take Shingo's place in the pen:

A Munoz 3.15ERA, 20.0IP 6W, 20K's, 1 SV

 

I know he had a rough time the last time he was brought up but Charlotte is a hitter's park & he's still got great K/BB numbers.

 

To replace Munoz I want the Cub to throw in either

25 yr old J Van Buren 2.77ERA, 13IP, 10W, 17K's, 1 SV or

26 yr old R Rohlicek 2.38ERA, 11.1IP, 9W, 14K's, 1 SV

Edited May 7, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT

[Soxfest]

No way Scrubs do that Lee is worth alot more than a FA to be closer, you might do that in fantasy with a buddy only.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ May 7, 2005 -> 03:57 PM)

Maybe this will help people like the trade more.  Dont think of Derrick Lee as being a cubby, think of him being part of the world champion Marlins who beat the cubs in the playoffs and prevented them from winning a WS. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I like him just fine. I think he is a good 1st baseman. However, I am not trading Paulie and Shingo for him.

[White Sox Josh]

Wow!  Did this thread spiral out of control quickly?  Who said anything about Karsay to the WSox?  Hell No!

 

This was very simple:

The Cubs have a GG 1B who can hit for both average & power with better than average speed to avoid GIDPs in one Derrick Lee.  They have this locked up to a reasonable contract (below his market value) for several yrs.

 

The White Sox have a proven closer in Shingo & a proven HR hitter in Konerko.  However; Shingo is an RFA & Koney is UFA in 2006.  Yes this trade helps the Cubs but only for this season.  Whereas the trade helps the WSox for several seasons.

 

Koney would have to fall off his career #'s badly not to get a Sexson or Drew like contract.  His next contract is a 5yr deal & I don't see the WSox paying that.

 

Shingo is no longer cheap either.  The Shingo bashing needs to stop.

He now has 8 SV's following a yr where he had 19 SV's.  He was the best 15 pitch man in the AL in 2004.  His 2005 #'s are misleading.  He's faced 4 teams (CLE, DET, KC, MIN, SEA).  He had trouble w CLE & MIN in 2004 & still has trouble with them.  But he's handled DET & KC w/out a problem.

He's on a pace for 40 SV's & if he reaches that we're talking a 20M+/3yr deal. 

 

So as I view them they are essentially rental players.  The White Sox could offer them arbitration (Type A) to get compensation picks for them at the end of the season.  If I were KW I would do just that.  I would have done it for Maggs as well.  I've never had a problem with retaining stars 1 yr at a time through Type A arbitration. A compensation pick from the Tigers is a high pick.

 

So if we were to trade for D Lee now it would likely cost us 2 compensation picks plus Shingo & Konerko.  Maybe the Cubs should sweeten the deal.  Not Hawkins.  He's over-priced for a setup man & everyone incl Minny knew he didn't have the mindset to be a closer.  They tried him & he failed.

I don't want any of their struggling or garbage players either. It's D Lee or no trade.

 

Keep in mind that the WSox are in the driver's seat in this trade.  Their need for D Lee is far smaller than the Flubs need for Shingo.  We dictate terms.  I pity their injuries but they have no closer & are going no where until they get one.

 

My life long dream has always been for the White Sox to sweep the Flubs in the World Series.

Shingo will be Arb eligable because he will be in the top 20% at his position. I'm guessing he will make somewhere between $2.5-$3 million.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Shingo will be Arb eligable because he will be in the top 20% at his position.  I'm guessing he will make somewhere between $2.5-$3 million.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not a chance. He's making $2.5M now. If he's in the top 20% he's doubling that.

[DABearSoX]

I would trade Shingo and Kong for Dlee and Hawkins... i would trade them for just Dlee,  Im sick of hearing all this Konerko is a our leader crap... You can be a leader all you want but when your hitting .190 your not helping your team.  Derrick Lee would rejunivate our offense not to mention bring a great glove at 1st,  Shingo would probably pitch really well in the NL too since most teams havent seen him.

 

Yes it would help the cubs out,  but dont forget Derrick Lee was the one who got them in the position to win in the 1st place, so w/out him there would be no hawkins talk anyway.

 

It really gets to me when people hate on someone thats in a slump, there is no way paulie is gonna hit this badly all season.....it would be like ripping on you if you were in a pussy slump......(sorry ladies)

[Cerbaho-WG]

This thread, and Juggernaut's posts, are devoid of any reason whatsoever and are merely fantasy league trades. With the Cubs several games under .500, and the main problem of their team being their starting pitching and injuries, why the hell would the Cubs trade an excellent 1B who is locked up for several years in exchange for a somewhat flukey closer and a streaky 1B who will be a free agent?

 

This trade makes sense only for the White Sox and no sense whatsoever for the Cubs. This is merely a wet dream fantasy league trade and nothing more.

[thomsonmi]

I actually appreciate JUGS posts. But, I recognize them for what they generally are -- good statistical analysis that does not even remotely take into consideration things like team chemistry.

 

The reason not to make this trade is team chemistry. Konerko is one of our leaders and right now we are the best team in baseball. It would be moronic to make such a huge change in the clubhouse right now.

 

Note to JUGS: Keep up the good analysis though. It's always informative.

[RockRaines]

we will never trade with the cubs again, mark it

[southsider2k5]

we will never trade with the cubs again, mark it

 

Honestly with KW as GM, I would think we are more likely than ever to do a trade with the Cubs. Kenny has shown that he isn't afraid to make a deal, and if he feels he is getting what he needs from the Cubs, there is no doubt in my mind he will pull the trigger.

 

I will say that right now I don't think we match up well, unless the Cubs go into meltdown mode. As of right now both teams would be looking to add major league capable players for this year, and neither would want to give up those kinds of players. Now if we get to the end of July, and the Cubs are 10 games out, these teams could come together.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Do you honestly believe that D Lee would somehow upset the chemistry of this team if Koney were traded?

 

As for calling Shingo a flukey closer I would wager that Shingo will have more saves the entire Cub team for the remaining month of May. Doing that vs the AL is not flukey.

 

Just reminder D Lee is not locked up for several years. I was mistaken about that as well. He's a FA in 2007. Though with his numbers he's sure to qualify for Type A & give the Cubs/WSx the option of offering arbit.

 

If not the WSx what other team is going to offer the Cubs a trade for a closer? Pitts? Oak? You don't think they won't ask for D Lee either?

Are they going to be able to offer a Koney in return?

 

It's a fantasy trade in your mind only because you're looking at Koney's current slump & saying the Cub are getting a raw deal. That's pure BS.

Who's more likely to hit more HR this year? D Lee or Koney. I'll put my $ on Koney. The Cub are desperate for a closer. Hawkins is not it. He never will be. Minny knew it & the Cub continue to learn that fact. Nor is there any one else in the organization healthy enough to fill that role.