Uh-Oh, now it's MR. Gretsky

[LosMediasBlancas]

I don't follow hockey, is Wayne Rose...er I mean Gretsky already in the HOF?

Edited February 9, 2006 by LosMediasBlancas

[Mplssoxfan]

who do you think runs alot of the sports books?

One disclosure before we start. I am not anti-gambling. I am not against gambling with a bookie, either.

 

Even if there is rampant illegal influence in the Vegas books (not weighing in on it either way, mind you), there's a huge difference between wagering at a legal sports book and wagering with a bookie. In vegas, you gnerally don't get credit at the sports book, unless you're some sort of a guy who is comped heavily. The whole bookie system revolves around credit, you really can't bet without it.

 

There has been talk of alleged influence by men with alleged mob ties. That's not good. Let's say you're a goaltender for an NHL squad and you owe three times your limit to the book because of bad football bets. Someone comes to you and says, "you know that 30K you owe us? It's gone if you can help us tomorrow night."

 

Theoretical? Yes. But it certainly could happen.

 

Professional athletes should not gamble with bookies. Ever. Want to hit the track? Fine. Want to go to Atlantic City or Vegas? Cool. Not with a bookie.

[WilliamTell]

Yeah Gretzky's in the Hall of Fame and if it does turn out that he had been betting on hockey games, the whole Pete Rose question will come up again.

[The Critic]

One disclosure before we start.  I am not anti-gambling. I am not against gambling with a bookie, either.

 

Even if there is rampant illegal influence in the Vegas books (not weighing in on it either way, mind you), there's a huge difference between wagering at a legal sports book and wagering with a bookie.  In vegas, you gnerally don't get credit at the sports book, unless you're some sort of a guy who is comped heavily.  The whole bookie system revolves around credit, you really can't bet without it. 

 

There has been talk of alleged influence by men with alleged mob ties.  That's not good.  Let's say you're a goaltender for an NHL squad and you owe three times your limit to the book because of bad football bets.  Someone comes to you and says, "you know that 30K you owe us?  It's gone if you can help us tomorrow night."

 

Theoretical?  Yes.  But it certainly could happen. 

 

Professional athletes should not gamble with bookies.  Ever.  Want to hit the track?  Fine.  Want to go to Atlantic City or Vegas?  Cool.  Not with a bookie.

Agree 100%.

If you're droppin 50K in a month (the number I heard about Janet Jones-Gretzky), then you should pop for a plane out to Vegas and do it legit.

Maybe that's not as much FUN, though.....but neither is what they're going through now, I'd be willing to bet....

[illinilaw08]

Seems kinda hypocritical to get all up their asses one week after probably the biggest gambling day of the year.

Last week, gambling = OK, look at the cute office pools and point spreads.

This week, gambling = MAFIA, ILLEGAL, DEATH TO ALL WHO GAMBLE.....

 

I find it odd.

 

The issue to me is not is gambling ok, the issue is whether gambling on the sport in which you play is an issue. In my mind, I liken this to insider trading, especially if they are wagering on the NHL. I hate to sound cliche, but the integrity of the game becomes an issue. In addition to this, the Great One is the North American face of hockey. If this blows up and he becomes the new Pete Rose, I can't imagine the backlash that will result.

[Soxbadger]

This is not going to become Pete Rose, as Pete Rose originally was not supposed to be banned for life, it just became a complicated series of events, that Pete Rose himself helped to make worse.

 

Gretzky on the other hand is beloved, even if the Feds get some hair brained idea about bringing him to trail they will not get a conviction, and in any case they will most likely just want him to flip on the higher up (mobsters) or will want him to plea bargain to some slap on the wrist.

 

The feds are going to have to be really careful with this thing, because public opinion of gambling is not that it is a sin, and without a jury to convict all the evidence in the world means squat.

 

My guess is they convene a grand jury (formality for felony charges, unless its a notice state) the grand jury indicts on some of the lower charges. The feds then get plea bargains and statements they wont do it again.

 

Unless there is some evidence of either 1) throwing games, point shaving or 2) insider information there really is not much. Gambling is just not the evil it once was in American society.

 

Atleast thats my guess, I mean these guys are going to have slick defense attorneys and most Prosecutors dont want to f*** their batting average by taking on some beloved player.

 

Mav

[The Critic]

This is not going to become Pete Rose, as Pete Rose originally was not supposed to be banned for life, it just became a complicated series of events, that Pete Rose himself helped to make worse.

 

Gretzky on the other hand is beloved, even if the Feds get some hair brained idea about bringing him to trail they will not get a conviction, and in any case they will most likely just want him to flip on the higher up (mobsters) or will want him to plea bargain to some slap on the wrist.

 

The feds are going to have to be really careful with this thing, because public opinion of gambling is not that it is a sin, and without a jury to convict all the evidence in the world means squat.

 

My guess is they convene a grand jury (formality for felony charges, unless its a notice state) the grand jury indicts on some of the lower charges. The feds then get plea bargains and statements they wont do it again.

 

Unless there is some evidence of either 1) throwing games, point shaving or 2) insider information there really is not much. Gambling is just not the evil it once was in American society.

 

Atleast thats my guess, I mean these guys are going to have slick defense attorneys and most Prosecutors dont want to f*** their batting average by taking on some beloved player.

 

Mav

I dunno, they have recordings of Wayne talking about how Janet might keep from getting implicated in any scandal. As we have found out, tape recordings are the best evidence. Sometimes the ONLY evidence strong enough to sway juries.

This is getting deep.

[soxhawks]

the only reason they are trying to connect gretzky is because there is absolutely nothing else going on in sports

[Chisoxfn]

who do you think runs alot of the sports books?

The difference is in Vegas the government is getting its cut. In this ring, the gov isn't getting its money. Of course I'm not disagreeing with you about who runs a lot of the sports books.

[Chisoxfn]

LOL, I know he has a ton of loot so a few missing bucks here or there would go unnoticed, but my guess is his wife wasn't betting $20.00 in Super Bowl squares.

I think it was like 75 grand.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(IlliniKrush @ Feb 9, 2006 -> 01:11 PM)

Hockey might be a joke, but it's more popular than the NBA.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Based on what?

 

Last week both NBA games on ABC outdrew the NHL on NBC game by more than 2 to 1.

 

http://www.top5s.com/tvsports.htm

[YASNY]

I heard the Roenick was one of the 6 players involved. I think it was Brian Kilmead on FoxNews that mentioned him.

[whitesoxfan101]

I heard the Roenick was one of the 6 players involved.  I think it was Brian Kilmead on FoxNews that mentioned him.

 

Not surprising, and I hope it's true....Roenick is as big a douchebag as any athlete I've ever seen.

[Steve9347]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2324402

 

Supposedly, they have Wayne on tape.  Stay tuned.

 

 

you might even call him Mr. Gretzky

[Mplssoxfan]

This is not going to become Pete Rose, as Pete Rose originally was not supposed to be banned for life, it just became a complicated series of events, that Pete Rose himself helped to make worse.

 

Gretzky on the other hand is beloved, even if the Feds get some hair brained idea about bringing him to trail they will not get a conviction, and in any case they will most likely just want him to flip on the higher up (mobsters) or will want him to plea bargain to some slap on the wrist.

 

The feds are going to have to be really careful with this thing, because public opinion of gambling is not that it is a sin, and without a jury to convict all the evidence in the world means squat.

 

My guess is they convene a grand jury (formality for felony charges, unless its a notice state) the grand jury indicts on some of the lower charges. The feds then get plea bargains and statements they wont do it again.

 

Unless there is some evidence of either 1) throwing games, point shaving or 2) insider information there really is not much. Gambling is just not the evil it once was in American society.

 

Atleast thats my guess, I mean these guys are going to have slick defense attorneys and most Prosecutors dont want to f*** their batting average by taking on some beloved player.

 

Mav

First, isn't this a case brought by the state of New Jersey? I don't think the Feds are involved, yet. I actually don't see how the Feds cannot get involved, though. Tocchet's in AZ, the alleged ringleaders are in NJ, there's probably got to be Wire Fraud somewhere, don't you think?

 

Excellent take, BTW, SB. The only slight disagreement I have is that I think the State will indict on every concievable charge they can, then plea bargain to a lower charge. I don't think the State would have any interest in prosecuting the bettors, just the bookies. Tocchet's going down.

 

The only thing that will happen to Gretzky is that a lot of people's perception of him will change. Unless, of course, there is solid evidence that Janet or he bet on Hockey. That would be awful.

[Goldmember]

Timing of Wiretap Reportedly Backs Gretzky

By BETH DeFALCO and ANGELA DELLI SANTI, Associated Press Writers

Mon Feb 13, 5:46 AM ET

 

 

Wayne Gretzky's contention that he had no prior knowledge of an illegal gambling ring linked to his wife and Rick Tocchet appears to be supported by the timing of a wiretap conversation involving the hockey Hall of Famer.

 

A New Jersey state police-wiretapped conversation of Gretzky asking Tocchet, an assistant under Gretzky on the Phoenix Coyotes, how Gretzky's wife, Janet Jones, could avoid being named as a participant in the ring happened last Monday. That was the day after Jones allegedly won money betting on the Super Bowl, sources told The Associated Press.

 

A person with knowledge of the investigation confirmed the wiretap was recorded last Monday, the day Gretzky's lawyer said New Jersey detectives showed up at the Phoenix coach's doorstep looking to speak to his wife.

 

"Published reports that Wayne had spoken to Rick Tocchet about his concern for Janet prior to officers appearing at Wayne's house on Monday are completely ludicrous," said Gretzky's attorney, Ron Fujikawa. "It's absolute balderdash."

 

Gretzky, the executive director of Canada's Olympic hockey team, was scheduled to travel to Italy on Monday with his wife for the Turin Olympics. The Canadian team will practice Monday afternoon in Mississauga, Ontario.

 

Last Tuesday, New Jersey authorities announced charges against Tocchet, a New Jersey state trooper and another New Jersey man for running a nationwide sports gambling operation. State police said wagers — primarily on professional football — exceeded $1.7 million in the five weeks leading up to the Super Bowl.

 

Gretzky, revered as hockey's greatest player and now in his first season as Phoenix's coach, said he was unaware of any gambling accusations until Tocchet called him last Monday night.

 

But when reports surfaced that a wiretapped conversation between Gretzky and Tocchet happened within the last month, questions over whether Gretzky knew about the ring before authorities contacted him last Monday spawned a publicity firestorm for first family of hockey.

 

In all, Jones bet at least $100,000 on football, sources said. Jones hasn't been charged with any crime but is expected to be subpoenaed to testify before a grand jury investigating gambling activity, attorneys said.

 

Jim O'neal, the Coyotes' head of security, said he received a call from Gretzky last Monday afternoon saying authorities showed up asking to speak with his wife, who was at the couple's Los Angeles home.

 

"He was totally surprised," O'neal said. "He said they told him, `We're not here to see you. We just need to serve her with something.'"

 

Gretzky's attorney and O'neal denied reports that New Jersey authorities surprised Gretzky and Jones at their Arizona home on Super Bowl Sunday, as a New York newspaper reported.

 

Tocchet also learned of the criminal investigation last Monday, O'neal said, when he was served with a criminal complaint by New Jersey detectives at a Scottsdale restaurant. O'neal said he helped broker the meeting between Tocchet and authorities.

 

"I filled Wayne in. I said I was meeting the two investigators ... to serve Rick Tocchet with a summons," O'neal said." Wayne called me back and asked Rick to give him a call."

 

A message left at the office of Tocchet's lawyer, Kevin Marino, wasn't returned Sunday.

 

A handful of NHL players have been implicated in the ring, authorities say, but none have been identified or charged. Strictly speaking, it is not a crime to place a bet, but NHL players would be violating league rules if they wagered on hockey games. There's no evidence of wagering on hockey, according to the former federal prosecutor investigating the allegations on behalf of the NHL.

 

The New Jersey Attorney General's Office and state police said Sunday the agencies wouldn't comment on a pending criminal investigation.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060213/ap_on_...ng_bust_gretzky

Edited February 13, 2006 by Goldmember

[The Critic]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060213/ap_on_...ng_bust_gretzky

I wonder if the media douchebags who were quick to jump on him for "knowing all about it" will even mention this revelation?

Why do I doubt it??

[Middle Buffalo]

Not surprising, and I hope it's true....Roenick is as big a douchebag as any athlete I've ever seen.

Totally agree with your JR assessment.

 

Regarding the gambling allegations, I doubt that Tocchet financed the operation as has been reported. I think it's more likely that he brought high level clients into the ring and worked as a go between for the clients and the main bookie. For his "trouble," I'd guess that Tocchet received a percentage of the losses incurred by the clients he recruited.

 

So, say Roenick bet and lost $10K, he'd owe the bookie $10K plus an additional $1K. Of that $1K, Tocchet would receive 10-15%. This becomes a considerable amount when millions are being bet and lost.

[Middle Buffalo]

The difference is in Vegas the government is getting its cut.  In this ring, the gov isn't getting its money.  Of course I'm not disagreeing with you about who runs  a lot of the sports books.

Another difference is that in Vegas you pay up front. When you go through a bookie, you have credit. Lose enough and you can get seriously behind. When you are involved in sports, that opens the door to throwing games. I doubt that happened in this case, but that's the fear for league commisioners.

 

I think it's time that it becomes a standard part of player contracts that they refrain from gambling (even legally) on sports and from any type of illegal gambling on cards, etc.

[RockRaines]

Another difference is that in Vegas you pay up front.  When you go through a bookie, you have credit.  Lose enough and you can get seriously behind.  When you are involved in sports, that opens the door to throwing games.  I doubt that happened in this case, but that's the fear for league commisioners.

 

I think it's time that it becomes a standard part of player contracts that they refrain from gambling (even legally) on sports and from any type of illegal gambling on cards, etc.

You can use credit in any casino I have ever been in. I didnt know they are now cash-only?

[Mplssoxfan]

You can use credit in any casino I have ever been in.  I didnt know they are now cash-only?

Are you referring to a credit card, or a house account? Because at any sports book I've been to in Vegas, I've had to pay cash for my wagers.