aboz56 Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 I didn't see the game today, but one thing I noticed in Buehrle's previous two starts (Cubs, Boston) is that both teams were hacking away first pitch because they knew he was coming right in there with a strike. I'm not sure what the deal is with Buehrle, but I'm really starting to get concerned that the word is out on how to get to him and do it quickly. He definitely needs to look at making a few adjustments and maybe not be so predictable on the first pitch. Has anyone else noticed anything in his past few starts besides the fact that he's just gotten totally owned as of late. This is the toughest stretch I can ever remember for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POPPY_HIDALGO Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 I think the main problem with Buehrle is that he's been giving up alot of runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 This is only the 2nd time in his career where Mark has given up 5 runs in 3 consecutive games, so yeah, this is probably the worst stretch of his career. I haven't a clue what's wrong with him, because F***ing Fox carried the Dodgers/Cardinals game. But I will say this...his problem is not going to be people swinging at the first pitch, because if he has his good stuff and has everything working for him, people who try the "Swing at the first pitch" style wind up having Mark ace them for 9 innings. That strategy only works if Mark's pitches don't have their bite or if people know what is coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Buerhle's problem is that he is not locating. He's leaving everything right down the heart of the plate or missing the corners by a few inches for balls. When he gets his command back he'll be fine, but as long as its off a little, he's a gas can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Buerhle is at his best when he has his control, which is obvious. But especially when he runs his cutter in on the hands of righties. Pounding them in, like Mariano does to lefties. I know they dont have similiar stuff, but for Buerhle when he pounds them in with his cutter he is a much better pitcher. It opens up the outside corner for his back door breaking pitch or his changeup away. From what I see he is leaving his pitches up. He leaves his fastball up and over the middle of the plate. What he has been doing now for a month, is trying to sneak a quick fastball or breaking pitch over the plate because his control is off, so he can then use his breaking pitches to get the hitters out. What has happened is that people have figured this out, and are now hacking at the first pitch which is usually either center cut or away. They are not trying to pull the pitch, and are looking to go to right center with him. This is why you are seeing a lot of doubles to the gaps off of Buerhle. Buerhle and Coop need to figure out what is causing him to leave them up. He needs to get his command and control back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 04:14 PM) Buerhle's problem is that he is not locating. He's leaving everything right down the heart of the plate or missing the corners by a few inches for balls. When he gets his command back he'll be fine, but as long as its off a little, he's a gas can. ^^^ He's definitely leaving pitches up and not hitting the corners like he usually does. Also, the Cubs were sitting on first-pitch fastball in the first inning of the last game of the series at Wrigley. When A.J. began calling first-pitch breaking ball, he was much more effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Ozzie: "Right now, the way I see it is the cutter is not cutting, the changeup is not changing and the fastball is not fast," said Guillen of Buehrle, whose ERA jumped to 4.43. "When you are facing a team like that, you have to bring those pitches down and make pitches. If Buehrle stays up, he's going to get killed. That's not his style." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 QUOTE(TLAK @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 06:55 PM) Ozzie: "Right now, the way I see it is the cutter is not cutting, the changeup is not changing and the fastball is not fast," said Guillen of Buehrle, whose ERA jumped to 4.43. "When you are facing a team like that, you have to bring those pitches down and make pitches. If Buehrle stays up, he's going to get killed. That's not his style." He damn well better find those qualities, and quick. What we're witnessing these last several starts is what happens when someone with a sub 90 fastball and limited deception has no location. He's absolutely killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Mark: "If I miss my spot, they hit it. If I hit my spot, they hit it," Buehrle said. "I have to figure something out." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 I'm just wondering if we're seeing the effects from last season. guys throwing all those innings, all those complete games in October. The mileage adds up. One less month off. they could be wearing down. Freddy has lost velocity. Cliff is toast. Buehrle is off. just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxin' Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Maybe because he has been pitching out of his mind for his entire career and he is in no way shape or form an ace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 I think Buehrle isn't pitching inside enough... seems like everything is up and outside. They don't even seem to worry about the inside pitch with him. IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojimthome Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 07:02 PM) He damn well better find those qualities, and quick. What we're witnessing these last several starts is what happens when someoneGlendon Rusch with a sub 90 fastball and limited deception has no location. He's absolutely killed. Fixed. That's what Mark is when he can't toss the ball exactly where he wants it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 QUOTE(whitesoxin @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 05:19 PM) Maybe because he has been pitching out of his mind for his entire career and he is in no way shape or form an ace. So, he's just been lucky for the past five years? Since he's not throwing a Mulder-esque 80 mph fastball, we can most likely rule out an arm injury. And that's good news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxin' Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 07:23 PM) So, he's just been lucky for the past five years? Since he's not throwing a Mulder-esque 80 mph fastball, we can most likely rule out an arm injury. And that's good news. He's never been that great IMO. Obviously he is not going to pitch this awful all year, but I would be suprised if his ERA dipped below 4 the rest of the season. IMO Buehrle is very over rated by White Sox fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 QUOTE(winninguglyin83 @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 12:19 AM) I'm just wondering if we're seeing the effects from last season. guys throwing all those innings, all those complete games in October. The mileage adds up. One less month off. they could be wearing down. Freddy has lost velocity. Cliff is toast. Buehrle is off. just a thought. I agree, and it makes me appreciate that we capitalized on our opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hurtin Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 QUOTE(POPPY_HIDALGO @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 07:03 PM) I think the main problem with Buehrle is that he's been giving up alot of runs. Thanks for the insight Joe Morgan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 QUOTE(whitesoxin @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 07:25 PM) He's never been that great IMO. Obviously he is not going to pitch this awful all year, but I would be suprised if his ERA dipped below 4 the rest of the season. IMO Buehrle is very over rated by White Sox fans. Mark Buehrle has a career 128 ERA+, Roy Halladay 127. Their career numbers are incredibly similar and I doubt you'll be calling Roy Hallday overrated. I could make a long winded post full of numbers and s*** comparing him to other accomplished pitchers of the past decade but I'm thinking that might just be a waste of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxin' Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 07:32 PM) Mark Buehrle has a career 128 ERA+, Roy Halladay 127. Their career numbers are incredibly similar and I doubt you'll be calling Roy Hallday overrated. I could make a long winded post full of numbers and s*** comparing him to other accomplished pitchers of the past decade but I'm thinking that might just be a waste of time. ERA+.... Anyways, I'm not trying to fight with anyone, you can all love Buehrle as much as you want, but I've never really liked him and never will. That's just my opinion so leave me alone and don't throw a bunch of worthless stats in my face. By the way, Vazquez has 4 fewer losses this year than Buehrle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Buehrle may be not be in the highest pitching tier (Santana, Pedro, Clemens, etc.), but he's sitting right at the top of the next tier. QUOTE(whitesoxin @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 05:37 PM) ERA+.... Anyways, I'm not trying to fight with anyone, you can all love Buehrle as much as you want, but I've never really liked him and never will. That's just my opinion so leave me alone and don't throw a bunch of worthless stats in my face. By the way, Vazquez has 4 fewer losses this year than Buehrle Who cares what the stats say? Personal prejudice is what really matters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 07:38 PM) Buehrle may be not be in the highest pitching tier (Santana, Pedro, Clemens, etc.), but he's sitting right at the top of the next tier. Who cares what the stats say? Personal prejudice is what really matters! Buehrle doesn't have the intangibles Edited July 16, 2006 by StrangeSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxin' Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 07:38 PM) Buehrle may be not be in the highest pitching tier (Santana, Pedro, Clemens, etc.), but he's sitting right at the top of the next tier. Who cares what the stats say? Personal prejudice is what really matters! In picking the players that I like, yes personal prejudice is what matters. I don't like Buehrle, I love the White Sox. I like Vazquez. Is that so wrong? And btw, I think all stats are worthless in baseball. ERA, ERA+, RBI, ect. It was beat like a dead horse last year, but wins is the only thing that matters. Baseball is a game where the slightest change in the path of a ball, the speed of the ball, the hand eye cordination of the batter, and so on can change everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misplaced_Sox Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Stats can be misleading.... if you asked GM's around the league who would they rather have they would pick Halladay over Buerhle in a land slide. The two are not even compartive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 QUOTE(whitesoxin @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 07:44 PM) In picking the players that I like, yes personal prejudice is what matters. I don't like Buehrle, I love the White Sox. I like Vazquez. Is that so wrong? And btw, I think all stats are worthless in baseball. ERA, ERA+, RBI, ect. It was beat like a dead horse last year, but wins is the only thing that matters. Baseball is a game where the slightest change in the path of a ball, the speed of the ball, the hand eye cordination of the batter, and so on can change everything. So what were the determining factors when you decided you dislike Buehlre but like Vazquez? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 QUOTE(whitesoxin @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 05:44 PM) In picking the players that I like, yes personal prejudice is what matters. I don't like Buehrle, I love the White Sox. I like Vazquez. Is that so wrong? Nope, just don't go around saying that Buehrle "isn't that good" when the stats show that isn't the case. And btw, I think all stats are worthless in baseball. ERA, ERA+, RBI, ect. It was beat like a dead horse last year, but wins is the only thing that matters. So, Pods must be a better player than Barry becauase he's won more championships, right? QUOTE(Misplaced_Sox @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 05:44 PM) Stats can be misleading.... if you asked GM's around the league who would they rather have they would pick Halladay over Buerhle in a land slide. The two are not even compartive. There are other, less "misleading" stats that clearly show that Halladay has been more dominant than Buehrle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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