Who will be the best QB in the league this year?

[ZoomSlowik]

Since we're talking about Moss...is it possible that he's lost his "title"(or whatever you want to call it) as a top 2 receiver in the league?

 

I didn't watch him play much last year, but in his last year in Minnesota, he seemed to be a pretty mediocre receiver, and a lot of that had to do with a hamstring injury. To relate injuries from one sport to another, Scott Podsednik has not been the same player, period, since his hamstring injury late last year. For those who watched Moss play in Oakland last year, was he a little more ineffective due to a little loss in speed?

 

I don't really watch the Raiders, so I can't really comment on the speed. However, I don't think you can definitely make judgements based on one season, just like I don't think you can definitively say that Steve Smith is #1 right now because of a great year last year. He still had over a thousand yards and 8 TDs. Consistency is the key.

 

Right now I'd say the top 5 in no particular order is Moss, Harrison, Johnson, Boldin and Owens. Torry Holt just misses, and Larry Fitzgerald and Steve Smith can solidy a spot with another solid year. Antonio Gates also probably belongs in the discussion.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Aug 9, 2006 -> 03:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't really watch the Raiders, so I can't really comment on the speed. However, I don't think you can definitely make judgements based on one season, just like I don't think you can definitively say that Steve Smith is #1 right now because of a great year last year. He still had over a thousand yards and 8 TDs. Consistency is the key.

 

Right now I'd say the top 5 in no particular order is Moss, Harrison, Johnson, Boldin and Owens. Torry Holt just misses, and Larry Fitzgerald and Steve Smith can solidy a spot with another solid year. Antonio Gates also probably belongs in the discussion.

 

Moss' last 2 seasons have been mediocre, not consistent at all. He had 767 yards and 13 TDs in 2004 and 1005 yards and 8 TDs in 2005. Before that he was awesome. If you want consistency look at Torry Holt's last 3. 1696 and 12 TDs in 2003, 1372 and 10 TDs in 2004, and 1331 and 9 TDs last year. This year he will have Scott Linehan calling the plays, which may suit him even better than Martz. There has not been a better more consistent WR than Torry Holt over the past 3 seasons. Chad Johnson and Terrell Owens are right up there with him. But definitely not Boldin or Moss. I wouldn't even include Harrison in the same category as Torry Holt. He has been good, but not Torry Holt/Terrell Owens/Chad Johnson good.

 

Plus to include Antonio Gates would be determined on what kind of list this is. If it is any position that catches passes then I agree he belongs, but then so does Brian Westbrook. If it is a list of WRs, then he doesn't belong because he is a TE.

 

My top 5 WRs would be

(1) Torry Holt

(2) Terrell Owens

(3) Chad Johnson

(4) Larry Fitzgerald

(5) Steve Smith

 

The second tier is where you will find Moss, Boldin, and Harrison, not in this top 5. Boldin may replace someone after this year, but not now. Harrison has seen better days and no longer belongs there. Moss is a head case, who knows about him.

[southsideirish]

I'll say (1) Palmer, (2) P. Manning, (3) Brady, (4) Hasselbeck, (5) Delhomme

[Palehosefan]

Moss' demise is overexaggerated. Even in 2004 when he only had 767 yards, he still had 13 TD's. Last year playing with Kerry Collins, he only had 60 catches, but still managed over 1,000 yards again.

 

Here's Randy's average professional season.

1268 yards, 12.25 TD's, 16 yards per catch. Randy will have a real QB throwing him the ball this year and other receivers that can take double coverages away from him.

 

Randy belongs in the top 5, as does Torry Holt, Chad Johnson, Steve Smith, and Hines Ward.

 

Hines has averaged 1,098 yards the past 5 years, with 8.2 TD's a year and dominating blocking to help the run game. He has never been in a high flying offense, yet puts up a thousand each year including the tough catches and yards, and is the best blocking WR in the game.

Edited August 9, 2006 by Palehosefan

[Rowand44]

Chris Chambers and Larry Fitzgerald will both be top 5 wr's this year.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Palehosefan @ Aug 9, 2006 -> 04:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Moss' demise is overexaggerated. Even in 2004 when he only had 767 yards, he still had 13 TD's. Last year playing with Kerry Collins, he only had 60 catches, but still managed over 1,000 yards again.

 

Here's Randy's average professional season.

1268 yards, 12.25 TD's, 16 yards per catch. Randy will have a real QB throwing him the ball this year and other receivers that can take double coverages away from him.

 

Randy belongs in the top 5, as does Torry Holt, Chad Johnson, Steve Smith, and Hines Ward.

 

Hines has averaged 1,098 yards the past 5 years, with 8.2 TD's a year and dominating blocking to help the run game. He has never been in a high flying offense, yet puts up a thousand each year including the tough catches and yards, and is the best blocking WR in the game.

 

 

 

Randy Moss' last 2 years does not match the top 5 receivers in the game and definitely does not match up with Torry Holt, Chad Johnson, or Terrell Owens. No way does Hines Ward make it ahead of Terrell Owens, Larry Fitzgerald, or Steve Smith. He is a great blocker for a WR, but that does not make him a top 5. Hines Ward is good, but not top 5. 1098 yards receiving over 16 games is not that great and does not put him in the top 5. Sorry.

 

 

 

Aaron Brooks is not a real QB. He may be worse than Kerry Collins if that is possible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Aug 9, 2006 -> 05:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chris Chambers and Larry Fitzgerald will both be top 5 wr's this year.

 

 

 

Fitz will. Chambers is possible, but Culpepper won't be back until midway possibly. You trust Joey Harrington getting him the ball?

[Rowand44]

Fitz will. Chambers is possible, but Culpepper won't be back until midway possibly. You trust Joey Harrington getting him the ball?

Culpepper is going to start game 1.

[T R U]

Fitz will. Chambers is possible, but Culpepper won't be back until midway possibly. You trust Joey Harrington getting him the ball?

 

Culpepper has already been cleared and has been participating in camp 100%

 

The only thing I can see is POSSIBLY missing the opener if they hold him out of Pre Season but as of right now Culpepper is ready to go right now as far as I know..

[Palehosefan]

Randy Moss' last 2 years does not match the top 5 receivers in the game and definitely does not match up with Torry Holt, Chad Johnson, or Terrell Owens. No way does Hines Ward make it ahead of Terrell Owens, Larry Fitzgerald, or Steve Smith. He is a great blocker for a WR, but that does not make him a top 5. Hines Ward is good, but not top 5. 1098 yards receiving over 16 games is not that great and does not put him in the top 5. Sorry.

 

 

 

Aaron Brooks is not a real QB. He may be worse than Kerry Collins if that is possible.

 

So, I thought we were talking about the best receivers in the league, I didn't see the part where it said "the best receivers in the league over the last two years".

 

Yes Hines belongs on the list.

Hines last 5 years, 1,098 yards

Fitzgeralds two years, 1,095 yards.

Smiths 3 healthy years, 1,182

 

Neither Larry or Steve come anywhere close to blocking as well as Hines. Hines plays in a run dominated offense and helps pave the way for top 5 rushing clubs each year. He hasn't played in an open offense since 02-03 when he also happened to average 1246 yards and 11 TD's.

 

Holt has played in "the greatest show on earth" his entire career, but belongs in the top 5 easily. Owens has put up great numbers regardless of the QB, and I can see his place. Chad Johnson now has enough of a track record to say he belongs as well. After that, it's very sketchy.

 

You can say Steve Smith was the best receiver in the league last year, but doesn't have the track record of Moss, Hines, Marvin Harrison, and is even comparable to guys like Santana Moss, Rod Smith, and Derrick Mason. Same with Fitgerald and Boldin in Arizona, not enough track record.

 

You can put Holt, Owens, and Johnson there safely, and Randy still has the talent, good QB, and is healthy again and will put up over 1,200 yards, 10 TD's, I guarantee it. The rest are very arguable.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Palehosefan @ Aug 9, 2006 -> 10:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, I thought we were talking about the best receivers in the league, I didn't see the part where it said "the best receivers in the league over the last two years".

 

Yes Hines belongs on the list.

Hines last 5 years, 1,098 yards

Fitzgeralds two years, 1,095 yards.

Smiths 3 healthy years, 1,182

 

Neither Larry or Steve come anywhere close to blocking as well as Hines. Hines plays in a run dominated offense and helps pave the way for top 5 rushing clubs each year. He hasn't played in an open offense since 02-03 when he also happened to average 1246 yards and 11 TD's.

 

Holt has played in "the greatest show on earth" his entire career, but belongs in the top 5 easily. Owens has put up great numbers regardless of the QB, and I can see his place. Chad Johnson now has enough of a track record to say he belongs as well. After that, it's very sketchy.

 

You can say Steve Smith was the best receiver in the league last year, but doesn't have the track record of Moss, Hines, Marvin Harrison, and is even comparable to guys like Santana Moss, Rod Smith, and Derrick Mason. Same with Fitgerald and Boldin in Arizona, not enough track record.

 

You can put Holt, Owens, and Johnson there safely, and Randy still has the talent, good QB, and is healthy again and will put up over 1,200 yards, 10 TD's, I guarantee it. The rest are very arguable.

 

 

 

Now that really isn't a fair comparison is it? Lets compare fair numbers. Hines Ward's first 3 years in the league his combined numbers were 1556 yards and 11TDs. Larry Fitzgerald's 2nd year in the league alone he had 1409 and 10 TDs. He is better than Hines Ward was in his second year. He is better than Hines Ward at the moment. Steve Smith's first 3 years he had 2136 yards receiving and 10 TDs. He is better than Hines Ward was at that point in his career and he is better than him now. Just because they have not played in the league for many years does not mean that they are not better. That is a truly ridiculous statement to make. Thomas Jones, Cadillac Williams, and Ronnie Brown are AT THIS MOMENT better RBs than Curtis Martin and Corey Dillon at this moment. Do they have the same track record as they do? HELL NO. But they are better. Track record is really a meaningless point to bring up. Give me the last 2 to 3 years of a player or compare them at certain points in their career. Harrison is sliding each year. I will take Fitz and Steve Smith over him if I was starting a team today. No doubt. I would take both over Moss as well.

 

 

 

Since when is Aaron Brooks a good QB? Since when? Do you mean Andrew Walter? If so, then where is his track record. I will agree he can be good and will most likely be better than Brooks is and ever was, but that is a big assumption to make. Plus I really doubt Moss is healthy. The past 2 years tell me he can't stay healthy and he doesn't take care of himself.

 

 

 

I say it is a no brainer that Fitz and Steve Smith belong in today's top 5. 2 or 3 years ago Moss and Harrison were in it. Not any longer. Hines Ward was never in it. He never had top 5 WR talent or an offense to take advantage of the talent he did/does have.

 

 

 

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Aug 9, 2006 -> 09:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Culpepper is going to start game 1.

 

 

 

I am not doubting you, but I will believe it when I see it. Plus Culpepper didn't look very good without Randy Moss and Scott Linehan. I have my doubts about how good he actually is. He was a pro bowler in the same exact system with the same exact players that made Jeff George, Randall Cunningham at age 35, and Brad Johnson look great. None of them proved to be great away from that afterwards. So I think Culpepper is a system QB, especially after his big time struggles last year. I am not as optimistic about his future as you guys are. Nor am I excited if I am a Chris Chambers fan that this guy is throwing to him.

[ZoomSlowik]

Hines has averaged 1,098 yards the past 5 years, with 8.2 TD's a year and dominating blocking to help the run game. He has never been in a high flying offense, yet puts up a thousand each year including the tough catches and yards, and is the best blocking WR in the game.

 

I'll admit, I gave Ward some consideration. However, his numbers aren't quite as spectacular as the others. He's a bit more of a possession receiver as well. He's certainly a solid receiver, but I wouldn't call him top 5. He may be the most balanced as well.

[Chisoxfn]

TOM "I'm Chisoxfn's Man Crush" BRADY

[ZoomSlowik]

Randy Moss' last 2 years does not match the top 5 receivers in the game and definitely does not match up with Torry Holt, Chad Johnson, or Terrell Owens.

 

Moss definitely had a down year last season, but I wouldn't call 2004 one. For one, he still scored 13 touchdowns. Two, he wasn't 100% for a good chunk of the year. He missed 3 games, missed most of two others where he had no catches, and was still somewhat limited when he came back. That's kind of like calling Owens' 2005 as a down year because he got suspended.

 

I'm leaving him in the top 5 because unless he's lost a step, he's the most physically gifted of the group.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Aug 10, 2006 -> 01:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Moss definitely had a down year last season, but I wouldn't call 2004 one. For one, he still scored 13 touchdowns. Two, he wasn't 100% for a good chunk of the year. He missed 3 games, missed most of two others where he had no catches, and was still somewhat limited when he came back. That's kind of like calling Owens' 2005 as a down year because he got suspended.

 

I'm leaving him in the top 5 because unless he's lost a step, he's the most physically gifted of the group.

 

Oh, I am not trying to change your mind Zoom. You are entitled to your opinion. I understand and respect that and you make good points. He, had a really good year in 2004 until he was hurt. He has not been the same since that injury. He was also selfish that year. The reason he started those 2 games that he had no catches in was because he had a consecutive game streak going that he didn't want stopped. So he would go out there and be a decoy for a quarter or a half and then come out. Plus he will never go over the middle and always tries to get out of bounds or just falls down. That irks me. He is a remarkable talent and if he can get his head straight and his body in shape then he will show that. If he doesn't then he won't.

 

Terrell Owens was having a great year and then was suspended. He didn't play in another game and never had a chance to come back from it. I know how you are trying to compare the two, but they aren't exactly the same. They aren't even the same type of athletes or players. Terrell Owens wants to be the best every single time he is out there. Randy Moss makes it seem as if he couldn't care less. I still put Holt, C Johnson, Owens, Fitzgerald, and Steve Smith ahead of Moss, but Moss would be my 6th.

Edited August 10, 2006 by southsideirish

[Palehosefan]

Now that really isn't a fair comparison is it? Lets compare fair numbers. Hines Ward's first 3 years in the league his combined numbers were 1556 yards and 11TDs. Larry Fitzgerald's 2nd year in the league alone he had 1409 and 10 TDs. He is better than Hines Ward was in his second year. He is better than Hines Ward at the moment. Steve Smith's first 3 years he had 2136 yards receiving and 10 TDs. He is better than Hines Ward was at that point in his career and he is better than him now. Just because they have not played in the league for many years does not mean that they are not better. That is a truly ridiculous statement to make. Thomas Jones, Cadillac Williams, and Ronnie Brown are AT THIS MOMENT better RBs than Curtis Martin and Corey Dillon at this moment. Do they have the same track record as they do? HELL NO. But they are better. Track record is really a meaningless point to bring up. Give me the last 2 to 3 years of a player or compare them at certain points in their career. Harrison is sliding each year. I will take Fitz and Steve Smith over him if I was starting a team today. No doubt. I would take both over Moss as well.

 

 

 

Since when is Aaron Brooks a good QB? Since when? Do you mean Andrew Walter? If so, then where is his track record. I will agree he can be good and will most likely be better than Brooks is and ever was, but that is a big assumption to make. Plus I really doubt Moss is healthy. The past 2 years tell me he can't stay healthy and he doesn't take care of himself.

 

Hines first two years in the league he was transitioning from his college QB position to learning the WR position. He's the most complete WR in the game. He gets 1,000+ yards each year in a run dominated offense.

 

Lets take a look at some teams passing numbers from last year.

Arizona, passed the ball by far the most in the NFL, with 44 more attempts than the next closest team. Passed the ball 670 times.

St. Louis, 4th on the list with 599 passing attempts.

Cincinatti, 12th in the league in pass attempts with 538.

Pittsburgh? Last in the league in passing attempts, 10 away from the next closest. 379 attempts.

 

Arizona threw the ball 44% more of the time than Pittsburgh, St. Louis 37% more, Cincy 30% more. Yet Hines still almost managed another 1,000 yard season. Hines accounted for 33.3% of his teams passing totals.

 

Compared to Holt's 32.9%, Fitzgerald's 31.8%, Johnson's 37.5%, and Smith's ridiculous 47%.

 

Hines compares very well.

 

You can't possibly be saying that Ronnie Brown, Cadillac Williams, or Thomas Jones are top 5 RB's in the NFL are you? Hines Ward is barely 30 years old, he's not exactly a geezer on his way down.

 

As for Aaron Brooks, have you ever actually watched him play QB? Take a look at 4 of his last 5 years, not counting last year when he was without any running game, and a banged up Joe Horn for most of the year.

 

2001-2004 average season for Brooks.

3,690 yards, 57% completions, 25 TD's, 15 INT's, 240 rushing yards, 2.3 TD's

 

Compare to say, Donovan McNabb

Donovan McNabb's 4 best seasons.

3,422 yards, 58% completions, 24 TD's, 11 INT's, 422 rushing yards, 3.5 TD's

 

Not bad huh?

[GoodAsGould]

So let me get this straight. The Steelers fan thinks Hines Ward is a top5 reciever and the Dolphin fan thinks Culpepper has better weapons in Miami than when he had Carter/Moss.... interesting

[Heads22]

So let me get this straight. The Steelers fan thinks Hines Ward is a top5 reciever and the Dolphin fan thinks Culpepper has better weapons in Miami than when he had Carter/Moss.... interesting

 

 

And the Colts fan says Peyton Manning is the best QB in the league.

[Balta1701]

And the Colts fan says Peyton Manning is the best QB in the league.

J.P. Losman sucks.

[whitesoxfan101]

And the Colts fan says Peyton Manning is the best QB in the league.

 

And from September through December, that is an undeniable fact.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I've got an even tougher question for you guys. Who the hell do you take out of LJ, LT and Alexander with the #1 pick in fantasy?

[MHizzle85]

I've got an even tougher question for you guys. Who the hell do you take out of LJ, LT and Alexander with the #1 pick in fantasy?

 

LT, why have people started to overlook him for LJ?

[Jordan4life_2007]

LT, why have people started to overlook him for LJ?

 

Well, LJ did have like 1400 yards and 13 TDs in 9 starts last year.

[GoodAsGould]

Well, LJ did have like 1400 yards and 13 TDs in 9 starts last year.

 

Yeah but he has lost 2 important blockers going into this season which might hurt. But than again LT has a rookie QB so its all gravy.

[Palehosefan]

LJ is supposedly bigger and faster than ever, so it should be interesting to see what he does. I would take LT as well, as Rivers will likely depend on LT out of the backfield when he gets in any kind of trouble. Philip also lived off of the short pass at NC State to set his records, so I would expect Gates and LT to have huge years again.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Aug 10, 2006 -> 06:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've got an even tougher question for you guys. Who the hell do you take out of LJ, LT and Alexander with the #1 pick in fantasy?

 

It is easily LJ in my opinion. Shaun Alexander lost Hutchinson. I have had LT for 2 straight years and he hurt me in the playoffs/championship both times. He wears down towards the end of the season and has pathetic games. Larry Johnson is an absolute stud and like another poster said, he had 1400 yards and 13 TDs in 9 games last year. I don't care that he lost Roaf because from all accounts Turley has looked very good.