McCarthy Traded to Texas

[Heads22]

http://www.minorleaguesplits.com/pl/433/433579logp06.html

 

Danks game log from last year. Got stronger through the season.

[Chisoxfn]

It certainly might have an impact. Other teams might shy away from him, thinking Jordan would hold out for a sox deal. You see how guys drop into the teens just because of money. No team wants to lose their 1st round pick.

Its too hard for that to happen in the draft. Danks is a talented guy and he isn't going to sit out just to come to the Sox system. We may be one of the systems he prefers but it would be assinine for him to pull a JD Drew just so he comes to the Sox system (since there are plenty of other good organizations in baseball, imo).

 

That said I'd love to get Danks bro cause they are both ridiculously talented. I still like this move, even though I'm wondering who we are going to pick up as a starter (cause i don't want two rookies in our rotation or unproven guys to break camp, unless we plan on seriously upgrading the offense somewhere).

[shipps]

I work third shift so i just found out about this right now because i sleep during the day.Iam completely stunned,to stunned to critique this trade.

[sircaffey]

I didnt know that BMAC was the key to us being in the playoff hunt.

 

"The" key? No. "A" key? Yes. It was more about the 5th SP. We all knew one of the SP were going to be traded, and that Bmac was going to step into the 5th SP. Now, we have a gapping hole at the backend of the rotation.

[Heads22]

We'd have one rookie in the rotation unless I'm missing something major.

[Chisoxfn]

Isn't Hirsh 24 or 25 already?

Danks is in another class when compared to Hirsch, imo.

[SoxHawk1980]

By the way, I think this elusive "inside information" about McCarthy which has been mentioned in this thread is dubious at best. It sounds like spin to me. Whispers about poor work ethic, attitude, etc. surround many, many players. They typically get thrown around a lot more after a trade. Whenever an organiztion trades away a popular player, we always hear a lot more about how he really was a bad seed. I call BS.

[RockRaines]

I think it is completely ridiculous to say that ANY of the pitchers in line to replace BMac would have done that. Those are the numbers of an average #3 starter in the AL. It is crazy to think that any of those pitchers (the vast majority of which appear to be not at all major league ready) can pull off #3 starter numbers in their first major league season. One should expect #5 starter numbers, and one can hope that they aren't horrible #5 starter numbers.

 

Any honest fan should expect a major downgrade in Garcia's rotation spot in 2007.

I agree with you, it would be a huge surprise for them to pitch at that level. With that said, the key would be for our remaining guys to get their collective heads out of their asses this year to make up for the downgrade int he rotation spot.

[Chisoxfn]

No. I wouldn't want Arias one bit. OBP is a problem? So is the fact that he hits for no power. He's slugged above .400 once, and just barely at .423. His OPS has topped .750 once in his minor league career. Why would I want him when we already have him.

 

 

 

No, the third guy doesn't really excite me a whole lot. He is what he is, another young arm to add to the system. Just turned 20 years old a couple of weeks ago.

 

And yes, I'd rather have another live arm in the system than Arias, because Arias isn't good. He'll probably make an okay backup. If he's starting for your team, you have lots of problems, though. And twenty-some-odd stolen bases don't change that.

 

That's not to say that I'm a huge fan of this deal. I'm excited to have two of the best lefty pitching prospects in baseball in our system, but I'm quite pissed that McCarthy is gone. I'm excited at our prospects (no pun intended) for 2008 and beyond, but 2007 is going to be very tough with Flaeger as our current fifth starter.

 

Unless, of course, they ink Clemens, which makes so much sense right now, but probably won't happen.

To add to that, those steal numbers are not impressive. Good base stealers in the minors put up ridiculous totals (see Ruddy Yan) and when I see guys like Rogowski and company getting right around 20 steals I'm not very impressed (unless I know a guy is ridiculously fast).

 

You got to be really careful about looking at certain minor league stats, in the ends stats are great in the minors but very few of them (especially offensively) deal with the tools/upside (unless we are talking about K/9Inning which is a very good indicator).

[Heads22]

To add to that, those steal numbers are not impressive. Good base stealers in the minors put up ridiculous totals (see Ruddy Yan) and when I see guys like Rogowski and company getting right around 20 steals I'm not very impressed (unless I know a guy is ridiculously fast).

 

You got to be really careful about looking at certain minor league stats, in the ends stats are great in the minors but very few of them (especially offensively) deal with the tools/upside (unless we are talking about K/9Inning which is a very good indicator).

 

Um....I think it's impressive for a guy Rogowski's size. Men that size don't exactly move that well on average.

[SoxHawk1980]

We'd have one rookie in the rotation unless I'm missing something major.

One unproven rookie who has never had major league success. We went from 6 legitimate, quality major league SP's in 2006 to 4 in 2007. So, we have a big hole in one rotation spot and no depth. What if a SP goes on the DL (not exactly a remote possibility)? Then our rotation and our team is in serious sh*t.

[dasox24]

Found a pic of the mystery man...

 

 

translated....

Wow, that is awesome. I laughed so hard when reading this. Good thing he towed 17 and swindled 9 pads in 14 attempts.

 

Oh, and Jas, are you assuming that we're gonna trade someone else when you say you don't want to rely on 2 rookies in the rotation, or did you just make a mistake? If it's the former, who do you think is gone?

Edited December 24, 2006 by dasox24

[Heads22]

One unproven rookie who has never had major league success. We went from 6 legitimate, quality major league SP's in 2006 to 4 in 2007. So, we have a big hole in one rotation spot and no depth. What if a SP goes on the DL (not exactly a remote possibility)? Then our rotation and our team is in serious sh*t.

 

I suppose I'm just a guy that's excited to see the development of a guy. People wondered where our top-10 draft pick, lefty with great stuff was. We've got him now, and he's a step away. I'm feeling pretty confident that Floyd will have the fifth spot, and it's not like he's just been up for spot starts. He didn't have a great year last year, but I'm excited to see what he can do.

 

Wow, that is awesome. I laughed so hard when reading this. Good thing he towed 17 and swindled 9 pads in 14 attempts.

 

I know. I BabelFished it and had to post.

[Chisoxfn]

I'm not saying that was it, but it made it easier than if his manager said they cannot go on without him.

You should get on AIM.

Can't, got people over....playing some call of duty online

[Heads22]

Can't, got people over....playing some call of duty online

 

 

Alright...then I'll say it in public. Get your worthless ass over to FS and do some work. I'm trying to line up an interview with one of the guys we acquired, but since you don't care enough to go on AIM, I won't say which one, even if you ask.

 

BTW, I kind of feel like I'm one of like seven people excited by Danks. Have other people just not heard of him?

[Chisoxfn]

By the way, I think this elusive "inside information" about McCarthy which has been mentioned in this thread is dubious at best. It sounds like spin to me. Whispers about poor work ethic, attitude, etc. surround many, many players. They typically get thrown around a lot more after a trade. Whenever an organiztion trades away a popular player, we always hear a lot more about how he really was a bad seed. I call BS.

Whoa whoa whoa....none of those things are true. McCarthy is a great character individual with a good work ethic and I've never heard anyone from the organization that I've ever talked to say otherwise. I can't go in depth on my stuff but it has absolutely nothing to do with the baseball side of things from a performance standpoint.

 

That said I still say we got extraordinary value for Brandon and I think a lot of people that are panicking vastly overrated the guy (and I've long been one of his biggest supporters and I think he'll have a good career) because we got more than just one arm back, we got at least one guy with more upside as a starter (But also a bit more risk since he's not quite ready for the majors) and than a guy who can be a stud reliever or potentially a pretty good starter (he has the pitches/stuff to do so).

 

I just want us to find a stopgap so we can give Floyd time to turn things around (although my guess is he'll be our 5th) while Danks/Gio/Broadway all work on being potential guys that we can turn to if anyone goes down.

[RockRaines]

BTW, I kind of feel like I'm one of like seven people excited by Danks. Have other people just not heard of him?

Oh Im pumped. I think he could be a legit #1 type of guy, which we havent really had with the exception of Contreras as some points. And I think Masset could end up being your right handed set up guy soon. He is another high-90's power guy. It hurts right now, and I really hope something happens in the near future to put an established guy in the 5th spot, but I really like the quiver of arms we have now, at a very young age.

[dasox24]

I suppose I'm just a guy that's excited to see the development of a guy. People wondered where our top-10 draft pick, lefty with great stuff was. We've got him now, and he's a step away. I'm feeling pretty confident that Floyd will have the fifth spot, and it's not like he's just been up for spot starts. He didn't have a great year last year, but I'm excited to see what he can do.

I'll second that. I think this trade (and the others too for that matter) makes us FutureSox guys happy b/c it definitely gives us more to work with regarding the minor leagues. I'm a huge minor league/prospect guy, though I never complain when we trade a prospect b/c I take a wait and see approach. I have learned never to overreact when dealing with prospects. With that said, I love the possibility of following Danks', Gio's, etc. progression next year thru the minors. I mean, during the baseball season, I may not check the big league team's box score every game, but I'm always looking to see how the minor leaguers faired. I don't know what it is, but I'm just much more interested in our daily minor league happenings than the major league stuff, which makes me thrilled to add to our depleted minor leagues.

[SoxHawk1980]

I suppose I'm just a guy that's excited to see the development of a guy. People wondered where our top-10 draft pick, lefty with great stuff was. We've got him now, and he's a step away.

I'm excited to see winning and championships, regardless of whether it involves the development of our minor league prospects or not. And I think Gio is a long step away, if it is just a step. He's never succeeded at a level higher than A-ball. He is yet to master AA. I don't think he'll be major league ready to start 2008. Maybe mid-2008, but I doubt he'll show particularly good things at that point, given his age and experience. He might be two steps away. Certainly two years. Unless of course we rush him.

I'm feeling pretty confident that Floyd will have the fifth spot, and it's not like he's just been up for spot starts. He didn't have a great year last year, but I'm excited to see what he can do.

I wish I had reason to be excited about Floyd. I'm only optimistic about him if there is something that can be fixed and that Coop manages to fix it. Floyd has never pitched well above the AA level. He's never been good in AAA or the majors. Yes, he has some major league experience -- more than just spot starts, as you said -- but he's been awful. So far he's been simply horrible in the majors. If he starts the year in the rotation, I'm going to feel horrible. I think he's going to need some time to work on things in the minors. Maybe he can get himself righted there. I don't want him wasting major league innings to figure things out.

 

Prospects are good, but they don't help you win championships this year. So far KW has taken a WS contender and taken them a step or two backwards. We needed to get better to win the division in 2007 and KW has made us worse. If we finish 3rd again, the fun of seeing prospects develop will be little solace.

[Friend of Nordhagen]

This all reminds me of the 1980's Bears -- won a title and then management decided that they had a "plan" to replace old parts with new parts. So you let a Wilber Marshall and a Willie Gault go, proclaiming to the fans not to worry -- because you've stocked up with Ron Rivera and God knows who else. But before you know it, the fans have lost guys they identified with, watched grow up and become attached to. And they were talented guys. That was bad.

 

Now, to be fair, McCarthy hadn't done a ton. But the degree to which Williams has now let the new free agent market for pitching get into his head is now clear for all to see -- because, presumably, McCarthy would be PART of a plan shaped around young, talented, under-your-control-for-many-cheap-years pitchers. But even McCarthy, apparently, doesn't satisfy the Williams plan. Instead, I gather, the plan says that it's better to get two good young, under-control arms -- even if less tested than the arm you're trading -- for the price of one young under-control arm.

 

I would imagine that if Williams could trade Danks and Masset for 3 really good AA pitching prospects, he'd do that. That would be the next logical step. Then you just repeat the process until you have 24 top-level "power arms" in rookie ball. Can't wait.

 

Strange.

[SoxHawk1980]

BTW, I kind of feel like I'm one of like seven people excited by Danks. Have other people just not heard of him?

I'm excited about Danks future. I'm much less happy about the White Sox present. The White Sox present is more important than Danks future. I think that is the nature of the unhappiness around here. We have (had) a good shot at the WS in 2007. Now those chances aren't so good.

[Heads22]

I'm excited to see winning and championships, regardless of whether it involves the development of our minor league prospects or not. And I think Gio is a long step away, if it is just a step. He's never succeeded at a level higher than A-ball. He is yet to master AA. I don't think he'll be major league ready to start 2008. Maybe mid-2008, but I doubt he'll show particularly good things at that point, given his age and experience. He might be two steps away. Certainly two years. Unless of course we rush him.

 

FWIW, I was talking about Danks. I was never as high on Gio as most, but I'll acknowledge his worth.

 

I wish I had reason to be excited about Floyd. I'm only optimistic about him if there is something that can be fixed and that Coop manages to fix it. Floyd has never pitched well above the AA level. He's never been good in AAA or the majors. Yes, he has some major league experience -- more than just spot starts, as you said -- but he's been awful. So far he's been simply horrible in the majors. If he starts the year in the rotation, I'm going to feel horrible. I think he's going to need some time to work on things in the minors. Maybe he can get himself righted there. I don't want him wasting major league innings to figure things out.

 

Prospects are good, but they don't help you win championships this year. So far KW has taken a WS contender and taken them a step or two backwards. We needed to get better to win the division in 2007 and KW has made us worse. If we finish 3rd again, the fun of seeing prospects develop will be little solace.

 

If the fifth spot costs us this year, and its not the other guys in the rotation, I will eat part of my White Sox hat and take a picture.

 

I think KW saw the chance to deal BMAC for one guy who has a higher ceiling than BMac as well as one of the top BP prospects (FWIW) in baseball. The other two guys in the deal will likely not amount to much.

[SoxHawk1980]

Whoa whoa whoa....none of those things are true. McCarthy is a great character individual with a good work ethic and I've never heard anyone from the organization that I've ever talked to say otherwise. I can't go in depth on my stuff but it has absolutely nothing to do with the baseball side of things from a performance standpoint.

Well, then I don't have any idea what this inside information is, if it has any credibility or value. So basically that info is nothing and is worthless to me and every other Sox fan.

That said I still say we got extraordinary value for Brandon and I think a lot of people that are panicking vastly overrated the guy (and I've long been one of his biggest supporters and I think he'll have a good career) because we got more than just one arm back, we got at least one guy with more upside as a starter (But also a bit more risk since he's not quite ready for the majors) and than a guy who can be a stud reliever or potentially a pretty good starter (he has the pitches/stuff to do so).

We gave up a guy who is likely to be a #3 starter for a guy who is likely to be a #2 starter. Both have the possibility to be better than that, or worse of course. And the "two arms" we got back for Brandon are prospects. Maybe Masset can upgrade the bullpen a little this year. Maybe. No one thinks Danks will help the Sox this year. Nor should they. This is a good move for the future and a horrible move for the present.

[Heads22]

I'll add in I understand what you're saying, and that was my first concern, but KW has been right more often than not, so I'll trust his judgment on Floyd.

 

Well, then I don't have any idea what this inside information is, if it has any credibility or value. So basically that info is nothing and is worthless to me and every other Sox fan.

 

Well, Jason would know better than nearly anyone on this board, and let's just say I'd trust him on this one.

 

 

EDIT: Wow, I'm trusting....

[bmags]

David Of the same country batted for 338 in the Summer League

I prospect

 

The young one outfielder Venezuelan David Of the same country was chosen to "All Stars" of the Venezuelan Summer League, which indicates the good future of Sharks.

 

By: Jose Luis Dwells.

jlmora@tiburonesdelaguaira.com.ve

 

August 11 - The Venezuelan Summer League, after finalizing campaign 2006, selected to the best players of the season position by position between which it honors the young person of the White Sox and Tiburones of the Guaira, David Of the same country.

 

Countryman (18), who played for the Baltimore-Chicago equipment was selected between the best gardeners of the season, according to informed the head into press of the salty troops Manuel Urbina.

 

The novice batted for 348 (195-66) of average in 52 games, with 13 doubles, 7 triples, 36 written down and 17 towed. Additionally, he showed good instinct to rob bases when being swindled 9 pads in 14 attempts.

 

 

- lets just all read this and feel better...ahh it gets funnier everytime