A thread you HAVE to see.....(McCarthy)

[whitesoxfan101]

That's right, here it is. For the first time since....well ever, I am going to *gasp* defend Ozzie Guillen.

 

Look, we DID NOT trade Brandon McCarthy because Ozzie doesn't like him. That is ignorant to say, end of story. It's pretty obvious that one of three reasons are why this happened:

 

1. Kenny has been playing poker about McCarthy all along, and was blown away that he could get a lefty with better stuff in Danks, as well as another pretty good prospect in Nick Masset, for him. A classic case of peak value trade. And based on comments I've heard about what the organization thinks of B-Mac's 2 seamer, and KW basically saying that he thinks Danks has a higher ceiling alone than B-Mac (along with getting Masset), that is the most likely senario.

 

2. Kenny has lost his mind, and will soon either kill himself or become a Cubs fan. I think this one is pretty unlikely, but I've been wrong before.

 

3. Some of these stockpiled prospects are going to be used to make a significant trade. We have so many, in fact, that we could use some to get a really good player, and still keep a good one or two (which is amazing since as of a month ago, we had the worst system I can remember us having). This senario is also likely I would assume, but not as much as #1.

 

Overall, let's wait until opening day to see how this works out. Our GM has proven that he can, you know, build a World Champion and all that, so he deserves at least a chance for us to wait until the season starts, then look at the roster, before we burn him at the stake. We do have two ELITE LEFTY pitching prospects in Danks and Gio now too (plus I like Masset and Floyd), so even if we only go 1 for 2 with them, lefty's that can ball are hard to find. The whole key here is that somebody has to step up and do something in the #5 spot, and to be honest, I think that will happen. I'm more worried about The Count staying healthy though....

[Heads22]

I dunno, Ozzie thinks we treat the kid like he's "Cy f***ing Young", so I don't know if he's sold on his super duper ability.

 

FWIW, Danks was the top Rangers prospect coming into this year, per BA. The fact he throws with his left hand helps, but he's 21 and in AAA, so he's still got room to grow.

[SoxFan1]

This is wierd. We still have a solid ML team, but we also have a boatload of pitching prospects. This is Flash's ultimate off-season.

 

Danks

Masset

Gonzalez

Floyd

Broadway

Phillips

 

Wow.

[Buehrle>Wood]

This is wierd. We still have a solid ML team, but we also have a boatload of pitching prospects. This is Flash's ultimate off-season.

 

Danks

Masset

Gonzalez

Floyd

Broadway

Phillips

 

Wow.

Flash was not too fond of either deal, I don't believe.

[Heads22]

Phillips isn't a really big prospect, and Masset is a BP arm.

[bmags]

KW has proven to get the better end of the deals when trading prospects for proven talent. But, i mean what is his record for proven ( i know with bmac this is loose but he is going to pitch right away) talent for prospects? I mean i have to trust him but when we were talking about not trading for crawford because mccarthy was so valuable then trading him away for 2 prospects neither of which are Elite enough for the Rangers to keep...i'm just kind of blown away by this trade in the worst way.

[whitesoxfan101]

I dunno, Ozzie thinks we treat the kid like he's "Cy f***ing Young", so I don't know if he's sold on his super duper ability.

 

I'm aware of how good Danks is, he's legit. As for Ozzie.....I think KW felt the same way about B-Mac that Ozzie does. They know more than we do, and the "more than we do" that they know, they don't seem to like.

[Whitewashed in '05]

1. You can have the best stuff in the world, and dominate in the minors (which Danks hasn't exactly done) and still be crap in the majors (Rauch.) Bmac has already transitioned at least decently. There are no guarantees with Danks.

 

2. You don't know that these prospects will be packaged.

 

3. Saying Ozzie is to blame for bmac leaving isn't realistic, but saying he had a big hand in it is.

 

4. For a team that supposedly is competing for a title in 07 we have done nothing to improve ourselves this season other than minor moves. We have no one "ready" to step in the 5th spot. We have potential 5th starters none of which are shoe-ins. This really weakens our 07 squad.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

This is wierd. We still have a solid ML team, but we also have a boatload of pitching prospects. This is Flash's ultimate off-season.

 

Danks

Masset

Gonzalez

Floyd

Broadway

Phillips

 

Wow.

 

 

Don't forget our knuckleballer !

[RockRaines]

Phillips isn't a really big prospect, and Masset is a BP arm.

His value went up when we switched to the BP and is being called a set up man of the future.

[Heads22]

Bullpen pitchers are the plantains of the pitching market. There may be some delicious ones in there, but as was once said on "Family Guy"

 

Chris: Hey, mom, look at these bananas.

Peter: Why you smart little bastard.

Lois: Now Chris, these are called "plantains". In fact, most women prefer them to normal size bananas because they're exotic and flavorful.

Peter: Yeah, Lois, I see all the sorority girls clamoring for the plantain section.

 

[Baines3]

That's right, here it is. For the first time since....well ever, I am going to *gasp* defend Ozzie Guillen.

 

Look, we DID NOT trade Brandon McCarthy because Ozzie doesn't like him. That is ignorant to say, end of story. It's pretty obvious that one of three reasons are why this happened:

 

1. Kenny has been playing poker about McCarthy all along, and was blown away that he could get a lefty with better stuff in Danks, as well as another pretty good prospect in Nick Masset, for him. A classic case of peak value trade. And based on comments I've heard about what the organization thinks of B-Mac's 2 seamer, and KW basically saying that he thinks Danks has a higher ceiling alone than B-Mac (along with getting Masset), that is the most likely senario.

 

2. Kenny has lost his mind, and will soon either kill himself or become a Cubs fan. I think this one is pretty unlikely, but I've been wrong before.

 

3. Some of these stockpiled prospects are going to be used to make a significant trade. We have so many, in fact, that we could use some to get a really good player, and still keep a good one or two (which is amazing since as of a month ago, we had the worst system I can remember us having). This senario is also likely I would assume, but not as much as #1.

 

Overall, let's wait until opening day to see how this works out. Our GM has proven that he can, you know, build a World Champion and all that, so he deserves at least a chance for us to wait until the season starts, then look at the roster, before we burn him at the stake. We do have two ELITE LEFTY pitching prospects in Danks and Gio now too (plus I like Masset and Floyd), so even if we only go 1 for 2 with them, lefty's that can ball are hard to find. The whole key here is that somebody has to step up and do something in the #5 spot, and to be honest, I think that will happen. I'm more worried about The Count staying healthy though....

 

I am more apt to think #3, but let's wait and see how things develop before we try to run KW out of town.

[SoxFan1]

Now that I think about it, signing Clemens would make so much sense right now. Sign him for 1 year, fill him in as our 5th starter as a "stopgap" and when he leaves after 2007, we use the money to extend Garland's contract. This is what we would look like in 2008:

 

Garland (thru 2008)

Contreras (thru 2009)

Danks

Floyd

Haeger

Gonzalez

Phillips

Broadway

 

Depending on the Crede situation, we could trade him for some prospects as well, possibly some OF help. Then, in 2008, Fields steps in at 3B.

 

I must be high on something, because the youth and talent of our prospects all of the sudden makes me very happy. Sweeney, Fields, and all those pitchers...wow.

[JDsDirtySox]

I saw in this thread Masset being talked about as strictly a Pen Guy.

While that is where he was penciled in for Texas, don't be suprised if the Sox make him a starter. I have a family member involved in another MLB organization, and he made mention to me that they really wanted Masset (to make a starter).

[Heads22]

I saw in this thread Masset being talked about as strictly a Pen Guy.

While that is where he was penciled in for Texas, don't be suprised if the Sox make him a starter. I have a family member involved in another MLB organization, and he made mention to me that they really wanted Masset (to make a starter).

 

 

That could be. The natural spot for him would be the pen, but we've been surprised lately, so who knows.

[greg775]

I think anybody with a brain thinks we coulda got more for BMac.

I appreciate the logic but wouldn't yu all agree with me on that?

That makes this a bad trade.

[kevo880]

I think anybody with a brain thinks we coulda got more for BMac.

I appreciate the logic but wouldn't yu all agree with me on that?

That makes this a bad trade.

 

Exactly, it's not that I'm not happy with Danks and Masset because I have wanted Danks all long. It's that I feel like we should have gotten at least a proven player for a guy like BMac. There was so much hype for him the last two years about getting him into the rotation and then we make a trade to put him in there and we trade him and now have a hole at the #5 spot. I realize it's not opening day yet and KW could still make another move to fill the spot in the roatation or another hole in the line-up but moving McCarthey is the one thing I wouldn't of done this offseason.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Good lord is Brandon McCarthy overrated on this site. And I was a big fan of the guy.

[RME JICO]

Good lord is Brandon McCarthy overrated on this site. And I was a big fan of the guy.

I think it was just a shock to most people, so there was the initial knee jerk reaction. I am sure that mentality will subside pretty soon.

 

I am a fan of B-Mac, but with all the speculation about Garland, Buehrle, and Vazquez being traded, it just came as a big surprise to me.

 

Also, the timing of it was pretty odd as well, right before Christmas on the weekeend?

 

If you take this trade and couple it with the other offseason moves, it doesn't seem so bad.

 

Losses -

Freddy Garcia

Brandon McCarthy

Neal Cotts

Ross Gload

David Paisano

David Riske

Sandy Alomar Jr.

Cliff Politte

 

Gains -

Gavin Floyd

Gio Gonzalez

David Aardsma

John Danks

Nick Masset

Jacob Rasner

Toby Hall - FA

Andrew Sisco

Carlos Vasquez

 

Some of the losses can actually be considered addition by subtraction.

[AWhiteSoxinNJ]

Once again, Gavin Floyd sucks and shouldn't be counted for future plans.

[beck72]

I think anybody with a brain thinks we coulda got more for BMac.

I appreciate the logic but wouldn't yu all agree with me on that?

That makes this a bad trade.

I don't agree.

 

BMac profiles as a #3 SP. Danks profiles as a #2, possibly a #1. Masset profiles as a top set up guy, throwing in the high 90's now that he isn't a SP [though he could still be a SP]. Though BMac will probably more in the majors in 2007 than Danks and Masset, over the course of all their careers the sox should get more out of their new guys.

 

Just taking pitching into account, the sox could hardly get "more" for BMac. IMO, it's a good deal for 2007 and definitely for the long term future.

 

Once again, Gavin Floyd sucks and shouldn't be counted for future plans.

Did Floyd beat your dog or something?!

 

I'll give the sox scouts the benefit of the doubt. They've done well with other teams castoffs.

[daa84]

Did Floyd beat your dog or something?!

 

I'll give the sox scouts the benefit of the doubt. They've done well with other teams castoffs.

yeah seriously....hes been posting crap about floyd ever since we got him, its a case of a guy from jersey whos seen floyds struggles personally and knows he has sucked so far so he will never give him a chance. i think all of sox nation did that for a while with garland and crede too. im not saying floyd will blossom like those guys did but to say that hes worthless is dumb, because i guarantee you if he was placed on waivers 29 other teams would scoop him up in a heartbeat

[Princess Dye]

anyone who says 'dont count on Floyd for anything' should also realize to him/herself that you cant count on Brandon for anything more than a #4 starter. count on.

 

 

the only thing Kenny is counting on to come out of this: that someone in the organization can be a decent #5 starter. everyone's right to say that spot is unfilled right now; but if you can add very good prospects - and make that your only hole.... isnt it worth it?

 

 

part of Kenny's job is to compete for future seasons as well as 2007. the question is -- are we totally morgaging 2007 with what we've done this offseason. the answer is no: we lost Garcia (arm falling off) and McCarthy (nearing 25 years of age, at peak trade value). to me those actually arent that shocking...that you would move them and still keep your chances of being 90+ wins.

 

you cant say we tore up this team, as much as it feels like it right now.

Edited December 24, 2006 by Princess Dye

[Princess Dye]

umm... hm.

Edited December 24, 2006 by Princess Dye

[Baines3]

Heck, I'm still in a state of shock after losing Bmac. I miss that guy already.