The Sopranos

[Kalapse]

Tony's dead. Remember he said that your mind goes blank before you die. He just got shot

 

The screen blacked out from the audience point of view. It is not over for Tony, it is over for us, the viewers. The Sopranos live.

This is just what David Chase wanted and exactly why I thought it was an amazing finale.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

I say the whole series was just the thoughts and imaginations of an autistic boy...

[The Ginger Kid]

BTW, I am going to watch it again at 11, but when the screen went black, was there any sound? I thought I might I heard a voice say something, but I wasn't sure.

that was me screaming horse s***.

[KipWellsFan]

Not that it really matters but interestingly the early media reaction is positive.

[southsider2k5]

f*** I hate artistic license

[southsider2k5]

So I'm the only one that thought it was outstanding? Tony is about to be indicted and probably go to prison but everything is just peachy to him because he's on top, he won. His family is safe from danger, healthy and well on their way to big things and even more importantly legitimate big things. He makes it through the biggest war yet with his family fully intact and proporous.

 

The tension created in the final scene was epic, amazing work.

 

It was literally the worst possible episode. Let me put it like this... If you are taking your final, and you leave the most important question blank, you are probably going to fail that test, no matter how well you did on the rest of it. That's this episode for me. It was great up until the end, but that completely ruined it for me. Its almost like David Chase wrote the whole episode, and then brought in the Sox middle relievers to finish it.

[retro1983hat]

I am David Chase. And you're not.

 

Series finales are tough, but with all the speculation and making people wait two years between seasons, and also having to pay for premium service, I felt Chase owed the fans something definitive.

[FlaSoxxJim]

It was literally the worst possible episode. Let me put it like this... If you are taking your final, and you leave the most important question blank, you are probably going to fail that test, no matter how well you did on the rest of it. That's this episode for me. It was great up until the end, but that completely ruined it for me. Its almost like David Chase wrote the whole episode, and then brought in the Sox middle relievers to finish it.

 

You have my wife's back in this debate. We are bitterly divided on the last episode. I liked it, and I like the final scene more and more the more I think about it. My wife strongly disagrees.

 

The last scene was like a perfectly set up Hitchcock scene, like the orchestra hall scene from the Man Who Knew Too Much remake. Everything is set in motion and all of the players and elements of the scene are established through the quick cuts. The suspense builds toward some inevitable climax with random elements fueling the tension (Meadow's problems parking the car, the mystery guy at the counter, the random hoodlums at the juke box, and the table conservation between Tony and AJ centered on the importance of focusing on the positives.

 

Now for me at this stage, the predictable climax would have been to see Tony get clipped right there. And the weak limp off would have been to have Meadow sit down with them, have the counter guy and the thugs walk out and to fade to black. For me, the unexpected cut to black just before any sort of resolution to the tension IS the climax. Life continues on pins and needles for Tony and his family. He's heading off for a stretch in jail or he'll get killed, or he'll have a heart attack in two years, but resolution in that scene would have been forced.

 

Maybe the imminent indictment could have been moved up to have taken place in the body of the episode. But it wouldn't have made sense for Tony to get clipped once Phil was out of the picture. The handshake deal that let the Jersey crew do what they had to do to get at Phil was order being restored to the two syndicates - everybody's business was going to continue to suffer until order was restored. The New York crew agreeing to stand down for the sake of restoring order took the target off of Tony's back. Him being killed after that wouldn't have made sense unless it was completely random or a doublecross. Tony being hauled off to jail on the other hand. . .

[Steff]

Jim, I agree almost word for word with you. I loved it and felt that spelling out an ending would have been a complete disservice to the show and it's 9+ year fans. I got it immediately when Chase chose not to gift wrap "the future", and, IMO, was clear in showing that Tony will always live in fear, as he always has. Wrapping up AJ, Meadow, and Carm was more than enough, and if Chase would have kept going and given everyone an "ending" I would have called BS and thought the episode sucked. He's never done that before. It would have been a sellout to start now. I also loved "Don't stop.. " playing. Left open, but I'm going to take it as a "hang in there Sopranos fans.. I might not be done with this family just yet.."

 

I'm still laughing about the guy spitting his drink as Phil's head was squashed. Leave it to Chase to make a morbid scene funny.

[tonyho7476]

The more I think about it the more I liked this ending and final episode. The cat and Paulie was great, Phil's death was great, and the tension at the end was great. Life will go on for Tony with his family or the screen going black was a shot in the back of Tony's head. Whatever. I prefer to think Tony pulled a Tony Accardo and never gets killed or spends a stretch in jail...just dies of old age. That's my ending.

[tonyho7476]

Just read this somewhere....

 

Remember when he was speaking with Bobby...basically

> saying that you don't see it coming?

>

> So here is what I found out. The guy at the bar is

> also credited as Nikki Leotardo. The same actor

> played him in the first part of season 6 during a

> brief sit down concerning the future of Vito. That

> wasn't that long ago. Apparently, he is the nephew of

> Phil. Phil's brother Nikki Senior was killed in 1976

> in a car accident. Absolutely Genius!!!! David Chase

> is truly rewarding the true fans who pay attention to

> detail.

>

> If you pay attention to the history, you will find that all

> the answers lie in the characters in the restaurant.

> The trucker was the brother of the guy who was robbed

> by Christopher in Season 2. Remember the DVD players?

> The trucker had to identify the body. The boy scouts

> were in the train store and the brothas at the end

> were the ones who tried to kill Tony and only clipped

> him in the ear (was that season 2 or 3?).

>

> Absolutely incredible!!!! There were three people in

> the restaurant who had reason to kill Tony and then

> it just ends. This was Chase's way of proving that he

> will not escape his past. It will not go on forever

> despite that he would like it to "don't stop". Not

> the fans!!! Tony would like it to keep going but just

> as we have to say goodbye, so does he.

[RockRaines]

Brilliant Tony thanks

[tonyho7476]

Brilliant Tony thanks

 

I want to find out about this Nicky Leotardo thing...I'm going to watch the episode from last year, and last night's again. If its true, my ending with be that Tony gets whacked by Phil's nephew.

[Kalapse]

the brothas at the end

> were the ones who tried to kill Tony and only clipped

> him in the ear (was that season 2 or 3?).

So one of them is a zombie?

[FlaSoxxJim]

So one of them is a zombie?

 

Ah-ha!! There's the twist. He ate Tony's brains.

 

I gotta say, I never saw that coming.

 

[tonyho7476]

So one of them is a zombie?

 

Yeah, the important thing in that was the Nicky Leotardo stuff.

[Steff]

Yeah, the important thing in that was the Nicky Leotardo stuff.

 

 

 

I don't see how. They have regurgitated actors in the past. In last night's credits he was not credited as "Nicky Leotardo" he was credited as "guy at the bar" (sic). If he was credited as NL, then this theory holds water. He was not.

[Jenksismyhero]

I'm still debating whether I liked it. I think right now I disliked the episode in general, but loved how it was wrapped up in the end. Some of my thoughts:

 

- AJ's sudden change seemed forced. We've spent 3-4-5 episodes now building up this plot about AJ and his depression/suicide, his hate for American culture, the war, etc. And his story arc ends in 15 minutes when he says he's going to the Army and then his parents suddenly pull some strings and get him a job. Why didn't they do this years ago? The storyline all makes sense and fits with the show, but it just seemed forced and thrown together in the last minute. This should have taken an episode or two IMO.

 

- I thought the scene with Tony and Junior was great. Tony walks in, expecting to yell and fight, and then he quickly realizes that Junior is gone. The person he's held all that hate for is no longer there. He's no longer a problem to deal with.

 

- Age has been kind to the actress that plays Meadow. Not so much for the actress who player her friend from a few seasons back.

 

- As to the final scene: I've read numerous stories over the years about how Chase wanted the show to be set in the real world. He hates TV because writers are forced to make happy and/or complete endings. The stories always need to have a beginning, middle and an end. But he doesn't like this. He's always wanted The Sopranos to be real. As that reviewer notes, there are numerous storylines that left us hanging, because in the real world that's how it goes.

 

To me the final scene was a perfect example of the entire show filmed in 5 minutes. You have this 'happy' family getting together for dinner. You have a Journey song that's all about continuing to believe everything is alright. There are no troubles for the Sopranos, everything is cool. Except everything isn't cool and ok. Tony's pending indictment, the continued threat of danger to Tony and his family, the uncertainty of AJ's future and Meadows future, Paulie's demons from the past, etc etc. The ending to me was perfect. Life continues to go on for the Soprano's (and everyone associated with them) with all of the uncertainties they have to deal with on a daily basis. Yet they continue to act like nothing is wrong and everything will be ok. They're continuing to believe...

[Kalapse]

I don't see how. They have regurgitated actors in the past. In last night's credits he was not credited as "Nicky Leotardo" he was credited as "guy at the bar" (sic). If he was credited as NL, then this theory holds water. He was not.

Similar to Vito being "Fatass in Bakery" when Christopher flipped out on the kid behind the counter then a season later he's a regular character but not the same person.

[tonyho7476]

I don't see how. They have regurgitated actors in the past. In last night's credits he was not credited as "Nicky Leotardo" he was credited as "guy at the bar" (sic). If he was credited as NL, then this theory holds water. He was not.

 

Oh, ok...I was going to rewatch the credits tonight. I did not pay attention last night.

 

I've been duped again!

[Steff]

Similar to Vito being "Fatass in Bakery" when Christopher flipped out on the kid behind the counter then a season later he's a regular character but not the same person.

 

 

Right. As well as that Doogie Houser kid being one of the "workers" in the pizza joint Jackie Jr tried to make his meeting place when he was working for Ralphie, only to be given a cast role a few episodes later.

 

Oh, ok...I was going to rewatch the credits tonight. I did not pay attention last night.

 

I've been duped again!

 

 

 

Naah you haven't. It was just one more thing to make the views who pay attention think. I saw it and backed up the Tivo at least 3 times and watched the credits twice on slow-mo.

[maggliopipe]

Just read this somewhere....

 

Remember when he was speaking with Bobby...basically

> saying that you don't see it coming?

>

> So here is what I found out. The guy at the bar is

> also credited as Nikki Leotardo. The same actor

> played him in the first part of season 6 during a

> brief sit down concerning the future of Vito. That

> wasn't that long ago. Apparently, he is the nephew of

> Phil. Phil's brother Nikki Senior was killed in 1976

> in a car accident. Absolutely Genius!!!! David Chase

> is truly rewarding the true fans who pay attention to

> detail.

>

> If you pay attention to the history, you will find that all

> the answers lie in the characters in the restaurant.

> The trucker was the brother of the guy who was robbed

> by Christopher in Season 2. Remember the DVD players?

> The trucker had to identify the body. The boy scouts

> were in the train store and the brothas at the end

> were the ones who tried to kill Tony and only clipped

> him in the ear (was that season 2 or 3?).

>

> Absolutely incredible!!!! There were three people in

> the restaurant who had reason to kill Tony and then

> it just ends. This was Chase's way of proving that he

> will not escape his past. It will not go on forever

> despite that he would like it to "don't stop". Not

> the fans!!! Tony would like it to keep going but just

> as we have to say goodbye, so does he.

 

I was just listening to the radio and heard an interview with the NY Times TV writer (I don't remember his name off the top of my head). Anyway, he said HBO denies that it's that the guy at the bar and and the guy at the sit down are the same actor/character. And also, didn't Tony kill one of the kids who was trying to off him? I seem the scene where he's got the kid hanging out the car and he crushes him between his and another car or something.... I'm not sure about the trucker but HBO is saying the other two are false. I'm glad that's the case. That would be lame.

[KipWellsFan]

Just read this somewhere....

 

Remember when he was speaking with Bobby...basically

> saying that you don't see it coming?

>

> So here is what I found out. The guy at the bar is

> also credited as Nikki Leotardo. The same actor

> played him in the first part of season 6 during a

> brief sit down concerning the future of Vito. That

> wasn't that long ago. Apparently, he is the nephew of

> Phil. Phil's brother Nikki Senior was killed in 1976

> in a car accident. Absolutely Genius!!!! David Chase

> is truly rewarding the true fans who pay attention to

> detail.

>

> If you pay attention to the history, you will find that all

> the answers lie in the characters in the restaurant.

> The trucker was the brother of the guy who was robbed

> by Christopher in Season 2. Remember the DVD players?

> The trucker had to identify the body. The boy scouts

> were in the train store and the brothas at the end

> were the ones who tried to kill Tony and only clipped

> him in the ear (was that season 2 or 3?).

>

> Absolutely incredible!!!! There were three people in

> the restaurant who had reason to kill Tony and then

> it just ends. This was Chase's way of proving that he

> will not escape his past. It will not go on forever

> despite that he would like it to "don't stop". Not

> the fans!!! Tony would like it to keep going but just

> as we have to say goodbye, so does he.

 

 

Sounds like bs to me.

Edited June 11, 2007 by KipWellsFan

[The Ginger Kid]

deliberate ambiguity does not necessarily equate to creative genius in my humble opinion. I would've liked more, but it's still a terrific series coming to an end and I'll miss it.

 

Take a look at Tony's expression when he looks up at Meadow coming through the door - looks like dread to me. Also, he's reaching back - either to get a coin for the jukebox or something else.

 

I do like the nod to the championship run of the 2005 Chicago White Sox. Who knew?

[jackie hayes]

If those characters are or aren't there, it doesn't really change the final scene. (In particular, it doesn't imply that Tony's dead.) It's obvious those groups wouldn't have conspired to hit Tony 'together'.

 

But it's clear we're supposed to think about the possibility of Tony's death. Not only the sudden cut, knowing that "they say you don't even hear it when it happens", but the Godfather reference with the shifty guy walking into the bathroom. (And the episode hammers home the Godfather comparison -- compare AJ's little rant after Bobby's funeral to the opening scene of the first movie, with the fade up from black, the first words, "I believed in America..." Plus the episode title, Made in America.)

 

That doesn't mean he died at the end. He'll never know when, and neither will we. Personally, I like that symmetry, and I think it's more appropriate to the show than just ensuring that the plot is all squared away and cozy.