Sox Loss Postgame Thread

[iamshack]

An extra run would have/and should have been achieved.

 

That is drives me nuts sometimes about this team...long ball or naught

 

Well, fair enough. But Jenks was brought into the game with a lead and no one on base against a team that had managed three stinking hits all night with a teacup-sized strike zone. He is paid to finish off games, not give up runs. Ultimately, he lost the game.

 

Oh well.

 

Let's get them this afternoon.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Well, fair enough. But Jenks was brought into the game with a lead and no one on base against a team that had managed three stinking hits all night with a teacup-sized strike zone. He is paid to finish off games, not give up runs. Ultimately, he lost the game.

 

Oh well.

 

Let's get them this afternoon.

 

 

He also had nothing on the fastball and the A's caught up to his curveball. Where was the hammer in the dirt, out pitch?

[Harry Chappas]

Jenks didn't do his job but it wasn't like he got pounded. He gave up three ground balls through the infield. Poor defense resulted in the loss.

 

If anyone can not understand why Pods should not have been out there, you are missing an integral part of baseball. In the bottom of the 9th in a one run game you put your best defensive players on the field. I believe the reason Mack was not hit for was because his defense is better than Dye's.

 

Pods has played really well this season but his defense is atrocious and will not get better. To leave him out there was a bad move.

 

Guillen did not put his team in an obviously more favorable position ot win the game and therefore he failed.

[caulfield12]

Jenks didn't do his job but it wasn't like he got pounded. He gave up three ground balls through the infield. Poor defense resulted in the loss.

 

If anyone can not understand why Pods should not have been out there, you are missing an integral part of baseball. In the bottom of the 9th in a one run game you put your best defensive players on the field. I believe the reason Mack was not hit for was because his defense is better than Dye's.

 

Pods has played really well this season but his defense is atrocious and will not get better. To leave him out there was a bad move.

 

Guillen did not put his team in an obviously more favorable position ot win the game and therefore he failed.

 

The problem is, Jenks is SUPPOSED to be a strikeout pitcher, someone who can avoid contact with the bats, not James Baldwin, Jim Parque or Jon Garland.

 

The ball Piazza hit was ripped through the infield...I would hardly call it bad luck or blame it on bad positioning of the SS and 3B.

 

None of the four hits that inning were absolutely smashed (like the Indians' fiasco where Jenks gave up double after double), but that was more hits than they had the entire game, in one inning.

[Milkman delivers]

You're blind if you can't see that the blame falls mostly on Ozzie, Jenks, and Pods with a little tip of the cap to the middle of the order.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Jenks didn't do his job but it wasn't like he got pounded. He gave up three ground balls through the infield. Poor defense resulted in the loss.

 

If anyone can not understand why Pods should not have been out there, you are missing an integral part of baseball. In the bottom of the 9th in a one run game you put your best defensive players on the field. I believe the reason Mack was not hit for was because his defense is better than Dye's.

 

Pods has played really well this season but his defense is atrocious and will not get better. To leave him out there was a bad move.

 

Guillen did not put his team in an obviously more favorable position ot win the game and therefore he failed.

 

 

will this team ever go above .500...not with thome, konerko, crede and dye sucking

[Y2HH]

will this team ever go above .500...not with thome, konerko, crede and dye sucking

 

I think with how our pitching started out the first few games of the year (starters melting down), combined with the entire heart of our order sucking, our record isn't as bad as I'd expect. If the guys we're paying big bucks to hit the ball would actually do that...we'd probably have only 2 losses right now, if that.

[iamshack]

Jenks didn't do his job but it wasn't like he got pounded. He gave up three ground balls through the infield. Poor defense resulted in the loss.

 

If anyone can not understand why Pods should not have been out there, you are missing an integral part of baseball. In the bottom of the 9th in a one run game you put your best defensive players on the field. I believe the reason Mack was not hit for was because his defense is better than Dye's.

 

Pods has played really well this season but his defense is atrocious and will not get better. To leave him out there was a bad move.

 

Guillen did not put his team in an obviously more favorable position ot win the game and therefore he failed.

 

See, this is the prototypical Soxtalk post after a game like this. It's Pods fault. It's Ozzie's fault.

 

No. It's f'ing Jenks fault! I watched 7 innings of Jon Garland pitch his ass off and manage to avoid "ground balls through the infield." Stop looking everywhere to place blame, when it's so obvious where the blame needs to be placed. Jenks didn't get the job done, and he blew the damned game. Not Ozzie. Not Podsednik. Jenks.

 

Players have to perform.

[Milkman delivers]

See, this is the prototypical Soxtalk post after a game like this. It's Pods fault. It's Ozzie's fault.

 

No. It's f'ing Jenks fault! I watched 7 innings of Jon Garland pitch his ass off and manage to avoid "ground balls through the infield." Stop looking everywhere to place blame, when it's so obvious where the blame needs to be placed. Jenks didn't get the job done, and he blew the damned game. Not Ozzie. Not Podsednik. Jenks.

 

Players have to perform.

 

Performing does not include playing decent defense apparently, though.

 

And managers have to perform, too.

[BigSqwert]

Why is Greg Walker still on this staff?

[iamshack]

Performing does not include playing decent defense apparently, though.

 

And managers have to perform, too.

 

Well I can sit here and pick apart every damned move of every game, and b**** about the umpires all day long as well. We can look to any number of variables that ultimately affected the outcome of the game. I'm not ignoring what Podsednik did, and I'm not ignoring what Ozzie did. But what it comes down to is Jenks. And I'm sure he'd be the first to admit it, too.

[Balta1701]

Gosh, I'm sure this thread seems interesting...the few posts I've read are basically people arguing over how to divide up the blame for last night's embarassment.

[Allsox]

But what it comes down to is Jenks. And I'm sure he'd be the first to admit it, too.

 

Bobby's already said it:

"Tonight's all on me," said Jenks.

 

Blown saves happen. Hell, he blew one in the friggin' World Series and rebounded in the next two games. But to most on this board, I guess Bobby must be 100% every season

[southsider2k5]

Gosh, I'm sure this thread seems interesting...the few posts I've read are basically people arguing over how to divide up the blame for last night's embarassment.

 

If you want to have real fun, put in Bush or Clinton everytime you see Guillen, and this could be a fillibuster thread

[iamshack]

Gosh, I'm sure this thread seems interesting...the few posts I've read are basically people arguing over how to divide up the blame for last night's embarassment.

 

Yeah, that's basically what it is.

 

Sorry, I'm just so tired of the Pods and Ozzie broken-record bs. Believe it or not, there are other reasons we lose games sometimes.

[Harry Chappas]

See, this is the prototypical Soxtalk post after a game like this. It's Pods fault. It's Ozzie's fault.

 

No. It's f'ing Jenks fault! I watched 7 innings of Jon Garland pitch his ass off and manage to avoid "ground balls through the infield." Stop looking everywhere to place blame, when it's so obvious where the blame needs to be placed. Jenks didn't get the job done, and he blew the damned game. Not Ozzie. Not Podsednik. Jenks.

 

Players have to perform.

 

You are missing my point. It is not Pods fault he is a terrible defensive player. Up until the bottom of the 8th he is fine out there. He should have been pulled for the 8th and 9th. Jenks, AJ, Konerko, Erstad, etc all had sub-par games that will happen. Replacing Pods on defense makes your team better. There is no question at all about that. In close games that you are winning where he is not scheduled to bat late in the game, pull him. It is that simple.

[WCSox]

See, this is the prototypical Soxtalk post after a game like this. It's Pods fault. It's Ozzie's fault.

 

No. It's f'ing Jenks fault! I watched 7 innings of Jon Garland pitch his ass off and manage to avoid "ground balls through the infield." Stop looking everywhere to place blame, when it's so obvious where the blame needs to be placed. Jenks didn't get the job done, and he blew the damned game. Not Ozzie. Not Podsednik. Jenks.

 

Players have to perform.

 

I agree. Sure, Ozzie probably should've put BA in as a defensive replacement in the 9th. Then again, the Sox lineup should've socred more than 1 run in 9 innings. Jenks shouldn't have given up four hits in the 9th.

 

While solid defense is always important, you can't rely on extraordinary defense to bail you out when your lineup can't score runs and your closer can't get three outs.

Edited April 11, 2007 by WCSox

[AirScott]

I see some of you have blamed Ozzie on this page, but I don't feel like going back to check if anyone mentioned this, so I'll just go ahead.

 

why wasn't Brian Anderson playing center field and Darin Erstad playing left field in the 9th? isn't this the reason Ozzie kept BA on the roster, so he'd have a quality defensive replacement in the outfield? we had a chance to get Milton Bradley (the tying run) at home, but Pods' throw was about 25 feet over AJ's head.

 

does Erstad make that throw? maybe, maybe not. but I don't see the ball landing on Erstad's head like it did Pods'. or Erstad jumping so damn early.

 

still, isn't this why we have BA on the Major League roster? if Ozzie's not going to use him in situations like last night, there's no point.

[Balta1701]

If you want to have real fun, put in Bush or Clinton everytime you see Guillen, and this could be a fillibuster thread

Bush's right arm isn't in shape? Ewww...

[iamshack]

You are missing my point. It is not Pods fault he is a terrible defensive player. Up until the bottom of the 8th he is fine out there. He should have been pulled for the 8th and 9th. Jenks, AJ, Konerko, Erstad, etc all had sub-par games that will happen. Replacing Pods on defense makes your team better. There is no question at all about that. In close games that you are winning where he is not scheduled to bat late in the game, pull him. It is that simple.

 

Yeah, I got your point. And I got it last night when Fathom and Kalapse said the same thing. Once again, I am not arguing that that is not the correct strategy in that situation. I'm arguing that Ozzie manages a team of human beings here and it's not quite as simple as a lot of people try to make it.

 

If you've ever managed people before, you know that there can be extraordinary benefits which come out of keeping your employees happy. I simply think Ozzie is trying to build Scottie's confidence up, and reward him for his solid play. The difference in the team Podsednik makes when he is playing well and he is confident is so huge as opposed to when he is struggling and beating himself down.

 

I know the vast majority of people will disagree (and most have already), but I'll take the once in a blue-moon blunder in the field by Scottie if he is stepping to the plate with confidence 600 times a season.

Edited April 11, 2007 by iamshack

[Wedge]

Yeah, I got your point. And I got it last night when Fathom and Kalapse said the same thing. Once again, I am not arguing that that is not the correct strategy in that situation. I'm arguing that Ozzie manages a team of human beings here and it's not quite as simple as a lot of people try to make it.

 

If you've ever managed people before, you know that there can be extraordinary benefits which come out of keeping your employees happy. I simply think Ozzie is trying to build Scottie's confidence up, and reward him for his solid play. The difference in the team Podsednik makes when he is playing well and he is confident is so huge as opposed to when he is struggling and beating himself down.

 

I know the vast majority of people will disagree (and most have already), but I'll take the once in a blue-moon blunder in the field by Scottie if he is stepping to the plate with confidence 600 times a season.

 

Amen.

[southsideirish71]

Yeah, I got your point. And I got it last night when Fathom and Kalapse said the same thing. Once again, I am not arguing that that is not the correct strategy in that situation. I'm arguing that Ozzie manages a team of human beings here and it's not quite as simple as a lot of people try to make it.

 

If you've ever managed people before, you know that there can be extraordinary benefits which come out of keeping your employees happy. I simply think Ozzie is trying to build Scottie's confidence up, and reward him for his solid play. The difference in the team Podsednik makes when he is playing well and he is confident is so huge as opposed to when he is struggling and beating himself down.

 

I know the vast majority of people will disagree (and most have already), but I'll take the once in a blue-moon blunder in the field by Scottie if he is stepping to the plate with confidence 600 times a season.

 

 

Well maybe Paulie will get a complex about being slow when Ozzie pinch runs for him. So lets keep Ozuna on the bench. Or maybe just maybe Gooch will get suicidal if Cintron starts a game. Maybe AJ will drop dead of a broken heart if someone else hits for him late in a game. Who cares. These are profesionals. Being taken out for a defensive replacement is common place in baseball. The very idea that we have to put a butcher out in the OF in a 1-0 game because of a fragile ego is sad at best.

[fathom]

Well maybe Paulie will get a complex about being slow when Ozzie pinch runs for him. So lets keep Ozuna on the bench. Or maybe just maybe Gooch will get suicidal if Cintron starts a game. Maybe AJ will drop dead of a broken heart if someone else hits for him late in a game. Who cares. These are profesionals. Being taken out for a defensive replacement is common place in baseball. The very idea that we have to put a butcher out in the OF in a 1-0 game because of a fragile ego is sad at best.

 

Amen. If anything, Ozzie showed too much confidence in Pods when he let him bat in the 7th inning.

[iamshack]

Well maybe Paulie will get a complex about being slow when Ozzie pinch runs for him. So lets keep Ozuna on the bench. Or maybe just maybe Gooch will get suicidal if Cintron starts a game. Maybe AJ will drop dead of a broken heart if someone else hits for him late in a game. Who cares. These are profesionals. Being taken out for a defensive replacement is common place in baseball. The very idea that we have to put a butcher out in the OF in a 1-0 game because of a fragile ego is sad at best.

 

Oh that's such a machismo bs way to look at things. "They're professionals." How long have you been watching sports where you honestly think most players handle being demoted or being replaced in a strictly "professional" manner?

 

They're human beings like everyone else. And while they must accept what their manager tells them to do, that does not mean that it does not affect their performance later on. And if you think it's weak that it does, well, aren't you just Ivan Drago's trainer in Rocky IV. Mr. Tough.

 

It's well-known that Iguchi DOES whine when Ozzie benches him. When Toby Hall was signed and Ozzie said that AJ would sit against the lefties in our division alot more, guess who started WHINING about it? AJ. What about in 03' when Paulie couldn't hit a thing and was benched for it? He clearly was affected by his inability to perform well. What about when Jerry used to pull Jon Garland in the 4th inning every game when two men got on base?

 

No one is saying these players should be whining about anything. After all, they are professionals, and they get paid extraodinarily well to do their jobs. But they are also human, and things affect their play. I'm merely suggesting Ozzie is trying to get the best out of his players at times by rewarding them for their efforts, even when perhaps it is not the best strategy in that situation to win the game. And if that's truly the case, I support him in doing so.

Edited April 11, 2007 by iamshack

[southsideirish71]

Oh that's such a machismo bs way to look at things. "They're professionals." How long have you been watching sports where you honestly think most players handle being demoted or being replaced in a strictly "professional" manner?

 

They're human beings like everyone else. And while they must accept what their manager tells them to do, that does not mean that it does not affect their performance later on. And if you think it's weak that it does, well, aren't you just Ivan Drago's trainer in Rocky IV. Mr. Tough.

 

It's well-known that Iguchi DOES whine when Ozzie benches him. When Toby Hall was signed and Ozzie said that AJ would sit against the lefties in our division alot more, guess who started WHINING about it? AJ. What about in 03' when Paulie couldn't hit a thing and was benched for it? He clearly was affected by his inability to perform well. What about when Jerry used to pull Jon Garland in the 4th inning every game when two men got on base?

 

No one is saying these players should be whining about anything. After all, they are professionals, and they get paid extraodinarily well to do their jobs. But they are also human, and things affect their play. I'm merely suggesting Ozzie is trying to get the best out of his players at times by rewarding them for their efforts, even when perhaps it is not the best strategy in that situation to win the game.

 

What are you talking about, demoted? Its a defensive replacement. It happens all over baseball all over. Thank god we are not in the national league, or you would be upset if we pinch hit for the pitcher because it may bruise his ego.

 

Its a defensive replacement late in the game. He is not taking ABs away from Pods. How hard is this to understand.

 

You know what doesnt help with ones confidence, jumping up to catch a ball, landing, closing your eyes, and feeling an object that you know is the baseball smack you in the melon. Because if I am pods, stay away from ESPN highlights for the next week or so.

Edited April 11, 2007 by southsideirish71