Brian Anderson

[the People's Champ]

But you aren't comparing the Freddy Garcia of 2008 to Brian Anderson of 2008. You are comparing Freddy Garcia of the 06/07 offseason to the Brian Anderson of 2008. There's a monstrous difference between the two.

 

I also was under the belief that Freddy was in decline too, but the Phillies apparently didn't know or care too much. It also doesn't matter, because Garcia's track record and prestige was and still quite frankly is just a bit better than Anderson. That, and the fact that Anderson is damn near valueless at the current moment.

 

 

 

Yeah I was here too, and his "split finger" that he developed in September was amazing. It was obvious he was in a bit of a decline, and I'm hoping he can make it back at some point this season or next, but I'm not holding out much hope for anything either way.

 

It still doesn't change his track record or his reputation as an innings eater, which Anderson has nothing comparable to...I know you aren't arguing that, but someone apparently is.

Ok, maybe it was a poor choice to use Freddy because while the Sox knew there was something wrong with him, Philly obviously didn't.

 

But in no way can that be twisted into a comparison between the two players. You are way outta line with that one

[witesoxfan]

Ok, maybe it was a poor choice to use Freddy because while the Sox knew there was something wrong with him, Philly obviously didn't.

 

But in no way can that be twisted into a comparison between the two players. You are way outta line with that one

 

By bringing them up, you were essentially comparing their trade values. That's all I was really getting at. I wasn't getting at you comparing Freddy Garcia, the player, to Brian Anderson, the player...just Freddy Garcia's trade value to Brian Anderson's trade value.

[Jake]

Ok, maybe it was a poor choice to use Freddy because while the Sox knew there was something wrong with him, Philly obviously didn't.

 

But in no way can that be twisted into a comparison between the two players. You are way outta line with that one

 

The Phils also "knew" something was wrong with Gavin Floyd, but they just happened to be wrong about both guys.

[DBAHO]

FWIW on Swish, here are his splits so far this season;

 

April - .213/.372.337

May - .176/.272/.275

June - .329/.413/.600

 

In my mind, he's going to have a Joe Crede of 2005 type of season where 1 bad month will basically drag his overall numbers down.

[WCSox]

Learning MLB pitching like Alexei has is definitely the exception and not the norm, btw. I can't recall anybody who's done that recently.

 

Wasn't Alexei a professional in Cuba? I imagine that he was facing better pitching there than most minor-leaguers do here.

 

[gosox41]

Ramirez is a dead pull hitter as well, that's not stopping him from hovering around .300. Plus the dude has never his ML pitching before this year.

 

 

Let's see how Ramirez does the second time around the league once the league adjusts to him.

 

Remember Craig Wilson?

[lostfan]

Wasn't Alexei a professional in Cuba? I imagine that he was facing better pitching there than most minor-leaguers do here.

Well, minor leagues is still professional ball.

[Chisoxfn]

The thing about his "full season" is that it wasn't full. He could hardly get a streak of consecutive games played without sitting out a day for Brian Mackowiak. Not only would that disrupt rhythm, but also perhaps confidence. Another fact that was virtually ignored by the White Sox was that he batted .257 the second half of 2006. .257 is very respectable, especially at the stage of development he was at. But all the Sox looked at was the overall .225, which was concerning but not representative of the strides he made.

I think this is a bit of a myth. He started pretty consistently the first few months of the season and at one point the Sox finally had to make an adjustment and started running Mack out there a bit more, but even at that point you were still getting 4 starts or so out of Brian in every 8 games which is nothing too bad (given how much he played the first couple months of the season). So the reality is he had quite a bit of playing time that first year. Last year was essentially wasted due to injuries and this year it is hard for him to truly develop and improve his swing since he's had limited AB's (the thing is, he's definately made strides/progress with it, but he's never going to master it in-season as there is only so much cage work you can do and at one point you got to refine and complete it facing live competition).

 

The honest truth is the best thing that could happen to Brian would be him spending the 2nd half of the year (until around September) in Charlotte (unless of course he gets a hot streak and can battle his way into a starting spot right now) with the Sox utilizing Jerry Owens and Dewayne Wise (Wise being the defensiev guy) in the outfield. I actually could see something like this going down if Owens can ever get healthy (heck the Sox could even bring up Richar and use Ramirez still as the starter but Richar playing some 2B/SS/3B (with Ramirez ocassionally pitching in in cf).

[Chisoxfn]

My point in comparing Anderson to Crede is that we need to have patience with young players who struggle. Now is the perfect opportunity (with Konerko on the DL) to give Anderson some meaningful, consistent playing time. He's not hurting us defensively, and isn't killing us offensively. Sadly, on any given day, he has one of the top 6 averages in our line-up. Let's see what he can do with two weeks of at bats. If he plays well, he can get 3 or 4 starts a week in center while we rest Dye, Swisher, Quentin and Konerko the rest of the way.

Great post and I agree with this to an extent. The problem is Anderson is in a bit of a rut as he hasn't gotten consistent playing time and I really believe the only way to get him out of it is by letting him stink for a couple weeks of starting or sending him down to the minors. He's just in a very tough spot but I must commend him for handling things very well, which is something he hasn't done in the past. I'm really hoping he can suceed because he has a lot of natural ability.

[Chisoxfn]

The difference is, I have nothing invested in him. I'm not hanging on to the tiny shread of hope that this kid may, MAY, just one day get it. I have the easy job. I can just wash my hands of him because I have nothing to lose.

 

That's the difference, smart guy!

The thing is, his value outweighs his worth on the trade market. No team is going to give up much to get him, at best you'd get a former first round pick who failed (and to a degree, Kenny has had success with this in the past in the Floyd deal (although at that time Garcia was talent) but more specifically in the Thornton deal (1 busted first rounder for another in Joe Borchard). Bottom line, unless the right deal came along (and rarely do they), the only thing you'd get is a potential fringe prospect at best and when you compare that to Anderson's worth (even right now, he's got a spot on a 25 man roster, at least on an NL team in the pinch run/defensive replacement mold) who has at least the ability to be a .270, 20-25 HR, gold glove centerfielder.

 

Again, I'm not saying it will happen, but Gary Matthews Jr. was a pretty talented guy that took a while to develop (you could make the case that even now he's not that great, but he has some value and given Anderson's defensive ability, if he could put up stats to a similar mold as the average GMJ it wouldn't be terrible). Again its a bit of a stretch given Matthews is a very patient player so he can get away with his lower average to an extent (although there is no denying his career has been poor for most of his career with a couple good years in between (texas) which led to him getting an inflated contract.

[Balta1701]

I think this is a bit of a myth. He started pretty consistently the first few months of the season and at one point the Sox finally had to make an adjustment and started running Mack out there a bit more, but even at that point you were still getting 4 starts or so out of Brian in every 8 games which is nothing too bad (given how much he played the first couple months of the season). So the reality is he had quite a bit of playing time that first year. Last year was essentially wasted due to injuries and this year it is hard for him to truly develop and improve his swing since he's had limited AB's (the thing is, he's definately made strides/progress with it, but he's never going to master it in-season as there is only so much cage work you can do and at one point you got to refine and complete it facing live competition).

Frankly, I don't think the numbers back you up here. If you're claiming 4 starts out of 8 games is ok then that's you're argument, but I'm looking at the game logs from 06, looking at the splits from 05, and there's certainly no sign that Brian was considered the regular as of April 15th on. Mack started in CF on day 2 of the season, April 4, then on April 9, April 15, April 16, April 19th, April 22nd, April 30th. Had a total of 62 at bats in April with was sort of tolerable, but then by May he was getting fewer at bats than Mackowiak was by a long shot (64 for Mack and 48 for BA, June was 46 for Mack and 51 for BA despite BA making that brilliant catch against Hafner that led Ozzie to declare him as the starting CF officially).

 

He had quite a bit of playing time, but he was still essentially treated as a platoon player from day 1. You can argue that his bat deserved that, I'd respond that Mack's defense in CF was costing us more games than the difference between the 2 bats, but I just don't think the numbers argue that the Sox made an adjustment eventually when the Adjustment happened on April 15th.

[Chisoxfn]

Just to be fair, it was pretty obvious to everybody here back in '06 that Garcia was in rapid decline. He pitched with a ton of heart that year, but he was reduced for getting hitters out with junk.

 

 

 

+1 If for no other reason that we don't have another ML-ready natural CF in the organization. Anderson has shown enough thus far to merit a spot as a 4th outfielder, IMO.

This is true, but lets think back to the end of last year. Jose Contreras after being absolutely horrid puts together a few solid starts in a row. People like me think they need to do everything possible to get rid of him (reality was no one would have taken him as now people are putting a much greater focus on prospects) but instead the Sox stick with him and he's at least given us a quality half of a season (still have no idea what we get from him last year) when everyone here wrote him off for dead (despite him being much improved after his short benching last year).

 

So while we thought Garcia was dead (and I had zero problem moving him, just as I'd have zero problem moving Contreras now for something valuable while you can, although if your a competitive team it may not be a great move or a good sign to the fans), there was legitimate reason to think he'd figure things out (fatigued arm would get better and he had nothing but a tremendous track record, plus the reality was the Phillies weren't giving up some premiere prospects, Floyd was a project who was not going to make it in Philly and Gio was a B prospect (not a knock on Gio, he's just not an upper echelon prospect, although he's a legit major league prospect with a lot of value).

[Chisoxfn]

There's nothing stopping me from comparing the two.

 

I've never advocated starting Brian over Swish, and, ask anyone, I carry Brian's jock more than anyone. BA should be starting now that PK is hurt, and always in CF (not sure why he wouldn't), but he's a solid 4th OF option.

 

His biggest problem right now is that he's DEAD pull. He's getting by on hits between SS and 3B. He's eliminated a bit of the hole in his swing, but I'd like to see him spray the ball more. Of course, he's pressing, because he knows his ABs are limited, and he still fully thinks he's capable of starting.

Anderson is an even money lock to hit a soft grounder to 3B practically every time. His swing is improved but its rather disgusting watching him hit because he really doesn't use any of the field. He needs consistent playing time but I don't know if it should be at the major league level (although I have zero problem playing him every day while Paulie is on the DL, because if he sticks you win. That said Wise isn't near as bad as some of you say and he's had a great approach up at the plate thus far). Still, the long-term benefit is in BA, but he clearly isn't near as polished a hitter as Wise (but most major leaguer's or even bench players are more polished than Anderson...hell a lot of minor leaguers are to be honest).

[Chisoxfn]

Ramirez is a dead pull hitter as well, that's not stopping him from hovering around .300. Plus the dude has never his ML pitching before this year.

I don't know if I"d call Ramirez a dead pull hitter. He's shown opposite field power and I've seen tons of hits back up the middle. That said, the past week or so his swing has gotten a bit longer. Still, he's a pretty pure hitter so to speak and I definately wouldn't classify him as a pull hitter (that said there is still a lot ot learn about this guy as the scouts are getting a better book on him and he's going to have to make some adjustments and improve in his strike zone recognition and ability to hit the breaking ball). ALso, as he plays more he should gain more comfort regarding some of the pitchers he's facing.

[Chisoxfn]

Frankly, I don't think the numbers back you up here. If you're claiming 4 starts out of 8 games is ok then that's you're argument, but I'm looking at the game logs from 06, looking at the splits from 05, and there's certainly no sign that Brian was considered the regular as of April 15th on. Mack started in CF on day 2 of the season, April 4, then on April 9, April 15, April 16, April 19th, April 22nd, April 30th. Had a total of 62 at bats in April with was sort of tolerable, but then by May he was getting fewer at bats than Mackowiak was by a long shot (64 for Mack and 48 for BA, June was 46 for Mack and 51 for BA despite BA making that brilliant catch against Hafner that led Ozzie to declare him as the starting CF officially).

 

He had quite a bit of playing time, but he was still essentially treated as a platoon player from day 1. You can argue that his bat deserved that, I'd respond that Mack's defense in CF was costing us more games than the difference between the 2 bats, but I just don't think the numbers argue that the Sox made an adjustment eventually when the Adjustment happened on April 15th.

At some point in 06, wasn't Mack playing other positions so his AB's are a bit skewed (playing for Dye when Dye was out with spider backs and replacing Pods at various times through part of his injuries, although Pods 06 wasn't near as bad as his 07). I may be wrong, but I swear BA was the starter the first two months of the season and than at that point it shifted a bit more to Mack but even than you were talking much more a 50/50 split which isn't terrible or what I'd consider too little play to truly develop.

 

Again, could be wrong, but regardless he had just over 350 ab's and played in 130 plus games which is definately a good chunk of action. And people point to his improvement the 2nd half of the season, but it should be pointed that his improve was bound to happen, you just can't be that bad for that long but his approach/swing looked as bad towards the end of the season and it did in the beginning so very few if any adjustments were made (and the reality was that lack of focus was the reason his playing time dropped, more so than the lack of production).

[Chisoxfn]

Frankly, I don't think the numbers back you up here. If you're claiming 4 starts out of 8 games is ok then that's you're argument, but I'm looking at the game logs from 06, looking at the splits from 05, and there's certainly no sign that Brian was considered the regular as of April 15th on. Mack started in CF on day 2 of the season, April 4, then on April 9, April 15, April 16, April 19th, April 22nd, April 30th. Had a total of 62 at bats in April with was sort of tolerable, but then by May he was getting fewer at bats than Mackowiak was by a long shot (64 for Mack and 48 for BA, June was 46 for Mack and 51 for BA despite BA making that brilliant catch against Hafner that led Ozzie to declare him as the starting CF officially).

 

He had quite a bit of playing time, but he was still essentially treated as a platoon player from day 1. You can argue that his bat deserved that, I'd respond that Mack's defense in CF was costing us more games than the difference between the 2 bats, but I just don't think the numbers argue that the Sox made an adjustment eventually when the Adjustment happened on April 15th.

On Mack's defensive case, I fully agree and I remember me and you being the two biggest proponents in just sticking with BA because he was easily saving a hit a game compared with Mack (cause Mack was that bad out there) and that is more than enough to make up for Brians stick (again, this didn't make BA's production acceptable, it clearly wasn't, it just made him a better option that Mack).

[lostfan]

On Mack's defensive case, I fully agree and I remember me and you being the two biggest proponents in just sticking with BA because he was easily saving a hit a game compared with Mack (cause Mack was that bad out there) and that is more than enough to make up for Brians stick (again, this didn't make BA's production acceptable, it clearly wasn't, it just made him a better option that Mack).

In the second half of the season I was perfectly happy with Anderson. Ozzie gave him an ultimatum and he responded quite well. Then he tailed off in September, the Sox signed Darin Erstad and inexplicably started over him, Anderson hasn't been the same player since (although I would argue getting demoted was the best thing to happen to him).

[TCQ]

If you wouldve just had the first post be "Sucks" You woulda been the man, and chisoxfn, slow day at work yesterday?

[RockRaines]

Anderson is an even money lock to hit a soft grounder to 3B practically every time. His swing is improved but its rather disgusting watching him hit because he really doesn't use any of the field. He needs consistent playing time but I don't know if it should be at the major league level (although I have zero problem playing him every day while Paulie is on the DL, because if he sticks you win. That said Wise isn't near as bad as some of you say and he's had a great approach up at the plate thus far). Still, the long-term benefit is in BA, but he clearly isn't near as polished a hitter as Wise (but most major leaguer's or even bench players are more polished than Anderson...hell a lot of minor leaguers are to be honest).

The funny thing is, during ST, Anderson uses the whole field and becomes a pretty good gap to gap player. He was patient at the plate and waited for a pitch to hit hard. During the season he jumps at the ball and becomes a pull/groundball hitter.

[Controlled Chaos]

Anderson's defense saves hits...and in turn saves runs. I know it's not as sexy as the towering solo homerun has become, but the net result is the same. Why is it so hard to comprehend? If he had 4 or 5 more solo dingers...many of the fans calling for his head now...would be happy and that's pretty f***in sad. Most Sox fans are much more knowledgeable than that. They don't need ESPN highlights to show their player to prove his worth. It's nice to have BP and the like, to reinforce what my eyes already tell me, but I don't necessarily need it...some of you clearly do. Brian gets incredible jumps on the ball. He starts moving with the crack of the bat, not the flight of the ball. He is the PERFECT 4th outfielder for this team and he is the perfect guy to be playing when you lose some offensive pop, because he can save that 1 run that may be your demise. Is it sexy when he gets to that ball in the gap and catches it standing up? Not really. Is it sexy when he saves a base hit because he can afford to play shallow with his jumps. Nope. Is it sexy when he holds someone to a single when it should easily be a double...nah... but so what....sexy is over rated...Most of the time it's just an unneeded visual stimulus. Do I need the lingerie model to walk in with her lingerie on or do I just need her to fricken walk in??

 

Nobody is content with his current hitting, but he has shown potential, and he isn't exactly in the most ideal situation to up ones stats. On top of the sporadic AB's, I think he has his most trouble when he is trying to accomplish something specific. Be it get a guy in, move a runner over, or be the hero. When his mental approach changes he suffers and it's more a matter of him trying too hard instead of staying relaxed. Most young players go through it...hell a lot of veteran players go through it. BA is progressing fine...his head is on straight and he has the tools....giving up on him now....would be brilliantly stoopid.

[lostfan]

Anderson's defense saves hits...and in turn saves runs. I know it's not as sexy as the towering solo homerun has become, but the net result is the same. Why is it so hard to comprehend? If he had 4 or 5 more solo dingers...many of the fans calling for his head now...would be happy and that's pretty f***in sad. Most Sox fans are much more knowledgeable than that. They don't need ESPN highlights to show their player to prove his worth. It's nice to have BP and the like, to reinforce what my eyes already tell me, but I don't necessarily need it...some of you clearly do. Brian gets incredible jumps on the ball. He starts moving with the crack of the bat, not the flight of the ball. He is the PERFECT 4th outfielder for this team and he is the perfect guy to be playing when you lose some offensive pop, because he can save that 1 run that may be your demise. Is it sexy when he gets to that ball in the gap and catches it standing up? Not really. Is it sexy when he saves a base hit because he can afford to play shallow with his jumps. Nope. Is it sexy when he holds someone to a single when it should easily be a double...nah... but so what....sexy is over rated...Most of the time it's just an unneeded visual stimulus. Do I need the lingerie model to walk in with her lingerie on or do I just need her to fricken walk in??

 

Nobody is content with his current hitting, but he has shown potential, and he isn't exactly in the most ideal situation to up ones stats. On top of the sporadic AB's, I think he has his most trouble when he is trying to accomplish something specific. Be it get a guy in, move a runner over, or be the hero. When his mental approach changes he suffers and it's more a matter of him trying too hard instead of staying relaxed. Most young players go through it...hell a lot of veteran players go through it. BA is progressing fine...his head is on straight and he has the tools....giving up on him now....would be brilliantly stoopid.

Awesome post, it makes me happy that there are other people that can remember longer than 7 days ago and can think farther than the next 7.

[Middle Buffalo]

Anderson's defense saves hits...and in turn saves runs. I know it's not as sexy as the towering solo homerun has become, but the net result is the same. Why is it so hard to comprehend? If he had 4 or 5 more solo dingers...many of the fans calling for his head now...would be happy and that's pretty f***in sad. Most Sox fans are much more knowledgeable than that. They don't need ESPN highlights to show their player to prove his worth. It's nice to have BP and the like, to reinforce what my eyes already tell me, but I don't necessarily need it...some of you clearly do. Brian gets incredible jumps on the ball. He starts moving with the crack of the bat, not the flight of the ball. He is the PERFECT 4th outfielder for this team and he is the perfect guy to be playing when you lose some offensive pop, because he can save that 1 run that may be your demise. Is it sexy when he gets to that ball in the gap and catches it standing up? Not really. Is it sexy when he saves a base hit because he can afford to play shallow with his jumps. Nope. Is it sexy when he holds someone to a single when it should easily be a double...nah... but so what....sexy is over rated...Most of the time it's just an unneeded visual stimulus. Do I need the lingerie model to walk in with her lingerie on or do I just need her to fricken walk in??

 

Nobody is content with his current hitting, but he has shown potential, and he isn't exactly in the most ideal situation to up ones stats. On top of the sporadic AB's, I think he has his most trouble when he is trying to accomplish something specific. Be it get a guy in, move a runner over, or be the hero. When his mental approach changes he suffers and it's more a matter of him trying too hard instead of staying relaxed. Most young players go through it...hell a lot of veteran players go through it. BA is progressing fine...his head is on straight and he has the tools....giving up on him now....would be brilliantly stoopid.

 

Totally agree with this very sexy post.

 

[Felix]

Is it sexy when he gets to that ball in the gap and catches it standing up?

Yes.

 

Is it sexy when he saves a base hit because he can afford to play shallow with his jumps.

Yes.

 

Is it sexy when he holds someone to a single when it should easily be a double

Yes.

 

Do I need the lingerie model to walk in with her lingerie on

Oh yes.

[Controlled Chaos]

Totally agree with this very sexy post.

You should see what I was wearing when I typed it!!

[WCSox]

This is true, but lets think back to the end of last year. Jose Contreras after being absolutely horrid puts together a few solid starts in a row. People like me think they need to do everything possible to get rid of him (reality was no one would have taken him as now people are putting a much greater focus on prospects) but instead the Sox stick with him and he's at least given us a quality half of a season (still have no idea what we get from him last year) when everyone here wrote him off for dead (despite him being much improved after his short benching last year).

 

I'm not sure if I'd use that comparison. Contreras has a long and storied history of excellence, so it's fathomable (no pun intended) that he may put up a decent season or half season.

 

BA, on the other hand, doesn't have a history of success in the majors as a hitter. Therefore, it's understandable that people would have less faith in him. That said, he really hasn't had much of a shot and I agree that he needs more time. We probably won't know what kind of hitter he'll be until the end of next year. He was hitting the ball well a couple of weeks ago, so it's evident that he can hit ML pitching... it's just a matter of him doing it consistently.

 

I think that a lot of BA's problems in '06 were due to his attitude. A friend of my sister's knew Anderson when he was at the U of A and what I've heard second-hand is that he was very immature back then, even by pro athlete standards. That may partially explain why Ozzie went with Mack in CF during the latter half of that year. Ozzie doesn't seem like the type to put up with rookies who have a bad attitude. From what Ozzie has said this year, it sounds like BA has matured significantly.

Edited June 24, 2008 by WCSox