Piecing together a couple threads

[Texsox]

In some threads Cuba's baseball program has been compared to US AA. So why all the love for getting the top two or three players from Cuba? Nothing against the country and all. Wish we would normalize relations, but if we had the top two or three US AA I doubt we would be seeing all the giddiness. And just to toss this into the mix for discussion, would a Cuban All-Star team be all that competitive in MLB?

 

Again, not hatin' on Cuba, don't want to go there, just trying to understand what seems like more love for the AA we don't see versus the AA or AAA or MLB guys we do see. Absence makes the heart grow fonder?

[caulfield12]

Wished High A ball was an option, that's probably the most realistic barometer...especially when considering the infields and playing conditions aren't always optimal.

 

That said, without El Duque and Contreras, we'd be nowhere...we probably wouldn't have gotten Ramirez and certainly not Viciedo, so that's been fortuitous. From my travels around the world, Japanese and Cubans really love the game of baseball as a nation almost to religious passion and certainly at a stronger level than the average American today.

 

I think it's no coincidence that Japanese players (Takatsu/Iguchi) who play the game in the way it was meant to be played and then Cuban players, who merge the best physical talents/raw tools with a driving passion for the sport, that they're playing critical roles within our organization.

 

Is it any surprise that Americans have been lackluster up until the last Olympics in international team sports, whereas the smaller countries treat even the WBC as if its life or death, with national pride and bragging rights on the line.

 

The reason we don't get as excited about Americans is because these players have such compelling stories, like Contreras escaping on a boat, and Viciedo's journey to Free Agency has been an odyssey of sorts as well. Growing up in the poverty of San Pedro de Macoris or rural Venezuela, these players and their futures can almost be like life and death to their families...that's not the case with most Americans who play baseball and come from upper class or middle class backgrounds.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

In some threads Cuba's baseball program has been compared to US AA. So why all the love for getting the top two or three players from Cuba? Nothing against the country and all. Wish we would normalize relations, but if we had the top two or three US AA I doubt we would be seeing all the giddiness. And just to toss this into the mix for discussion, would a Cuban All-Star team be all that competitive in MLB?

 

Again, not hatin' on Cuba, don't want to go there, just trying to understand what seems like more love for the AA we don't see versus the AA or AAA or MLB guys we do see. Absence makes the heart grow fonder?

 

Getting the two or three best players from AA would mean we would be getting two or three of the best prospects in baseball, who are also already advanced to nearly MLB ready players. I'd be giddy if we got those guys too.

[lostfan]

Tex's thread options at the bottom are hilarious.

[Texsox]

Tex's thread options at the bottom are hilarious.

Thank you.

Some people like to see the results, but do not have an opinion and then need to pick something, throwing off our highly scientific and important results. I always like to add a little something and let me tell you, and this will sound like an oxymoron, Cuban French Toast is incredible. I believe it is the evaporated milk that is the secret ingredient.

[clyons]

I think my moderate-to-high excitement stems in part because the team's Cuban connection dates back to Minnie, and two other Cubans were integral to our most recent successful seasons. As they say, past history is not indicative of future performance, but lately we have gone 2 for 2 with Contreras and Ramirez, which is a lot better than other team's track records with Cubans, or foreign nationals in general. We even scored (for the most part, and for a limited period) with Iguchi and Shingo, though we seem to have gotten lucky by missing out on Fukudome.

 

 

Honestly, I think very few of us (for obvious reasons) are qualified to intelligently opine on how Cuban ball ranks relative to our minor league system. Not having been exposed to it in depth, all most of us can do is guess.

[caulfield12]

Don't forget El Duque the reliever in 2005.

[clyons]

Don't forget El Duque the reliever in 2005.

Yeah, I'm embarassed I didn't mention him.

 

"HOCUS POCUS SAYS HERNANDEZ" -- That inning was unbelievable.

[Steve9347]

Tex's thread options at the bottom are hilarious.

They always are...

[Texsox]

Yeah, I'm embarassed I didn't mention him.

 

"HOCUS POCUS SAYS HERNANDEZ" -- That inning was unbelievable.

 

if not the all-time top performance by a White Sox reliever, in the top three.

[southsidehawkeye]

I think that it is hard to "assign a level" to many of the international leagues (especially those in Latin America, more specifically Cuba) because there is a very wide range of talent playing on the teams. You probably have some players who are ready to step into the MLB on day one (Alexei, Contreras, El Duke, and various others) and you have countless more that would need seasoning in the minors first, and you probably have even more that would never even sniff anything above Rookie ball. Leagues like Japan, imo, are played on a closer to "level" playing field so it is easier to call it "AAAA". I think in the end the key is good scouting - there are some gems in Cuba (As we've seen recently) but we don't want to blindly waste money signing every prospect that defects.

 

With all that said, I am super excited about our new Cuban import... I think he is going to work his way onto the roster in the spring.

[lostfan]

You guys are talking about the time when he came in with bases loaded and nobody out in Fenway and somehow ended the inning with no runs scored?

[Dick Allen]

Don't forget El Duque the reliever in 2005.

A guy who was basted on this board. I remember being at a game in August against the Angels where he was booed off the mound. Also a guy KW didn't want on the post season roster. There were no tears when he was traded for Javy. In fact, he's rarely mentioned on this board as being part of the Javy trade. He helped Contreras out tremendously. Contreras then helped Ramirez out. Hopefully, Ramirez and Contreras can steer this new kid right. There have been some Cuban busts. Maybe there is something to having another player they respect from their country and who know exactly what they are going through to help them along.

[Texsox]

You guys are talking about the time when he came in with bases loaded and nobody out in Fenway and somehow ended the inning with no runs scored?

 

No

 

[Heads22]

A guy who was basted on this board. I remember being at a game in August against the Angels where he was booed off the mound. Also a guy KW didn't want on the post season roster. There were no tears when he was traded for Javy. In fact, he's rarely mentioned on this board as being part of the Javy trade. He helped Contreras out tremendously. Contreras then helped Ramirez out. Hopefully, Ramirez and Contreras can steer this new kid right. There have been some Cuban busts. Maybe there is something to having another player they respect from their country and who know exactly what they are going through to help them along.

 

Whether or not anyone thinks Viciedo is any sort of savior, it's still pretty freakin' cool that he more than likely chose the Sox thanks to those three guys. The Cuban-Sox connection is a unique one.

 

Gotta tip the hat to the Sox as well, because they're obviously doing something right in their handling of these guys.

[scenario]

One of the things you have to keep in mind when evaluating the equivalent "league level".

 

That would be more significant if we were picking up a league average player.

 

When you dip down into any level of league (A, AA. or AAA) and pick up one of the top players... that is significant.

 

The odds are pretty good that player will help out someday, the only question is when.

[RockRaines]

It hilarious how ignorant some people are about baseball though. On the radio people were lauding KW's deal for DV saying that it was too much money for a player that wasnt proven in a league that is not up to par. Uh, you mean you would put our American High School baseball a level above Cuban leauge? Because we are essentually signing a player right out of highschool, yet he has been playing pro ball for 4 years longer than those HS'ers.

[Chisoxfn]

Getting the two or three best players from AA would mean we would be getting two or three of the best prospects in baseball, who are also already advanced to nearly MLB ready players. I'd be giddy if we got those guys too.

What he said!!!!

[Texsox]

It hilarious how ignorant some people are about baseball though. On the radio people were lauding KW's deal for DV saying that it was too much money for a player that wasnt proven in a league that is not up to par. Uh, you mean you would put our American High School baseball a level above Cuban leauge? Because we are essentually signing a player right out of highschool, yet he has been playing pro ball for 4 years longer than those HS'ers.

 

Whole websites are filled with those people. And they keep telling each others how smart they are.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

1. Not enough. It's not enough love until we have ALL the Cuban players! Muahahahaha...

 

2. Triple A. Double-A is more of a prospects league than Triple A, which has a lot of players who are good enough to play there but not good enough to stick in the Majors. I'd think Triple A would be the comparison because I'd imagine Cuba would be similar. You've got the Yunieski Betancourts and the Yoslan Herreras as well as the Alexeis and Dayans. I also would imagine that because of the competition in Cuba, the guys who wouldn't be able to make it in the Majors here would be more comparable to AAAA players than AA organizational fodder.

[Texsox]

Would we be as excited about Viciedo if he was Brazilian or French?

[southsider2k5]

Would we be as excited about Viciedo if he was Brazilian or French?

 

I don't care where he came from. If he had this kind of scouting report and signed to an affordable contract, I would be thrilled.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Would we be as excited about Viciedo if he was Brazilian or French?

No because those areas aren't known for their baseball programs like Cuba is. It's just like how getting a player from Japan gets people a lot more excited than they would get about a player from Taiwan, or how a player from the DR or Venezuela creates more excitement than a player from the Netherlands.

[Texsox]

No because those areas aren't known for their baseball programs like Cuba is. It's just like how getting a player from Japan gets people a lot more excited than they would get about a player from Taiwan, or how a player from the DR or Venezuela creates more excitement than a player from the Netherlands.

 

Or a basketball player from China So is it their skeletons that make the French poor players? Their intellect?

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Or a basketball player from China So is it their skeletons that make the French poor players? Their intellect?

You can't compare baseball internationally to basketball. Basketball is truly an international sport now and the talent level is much deeper. Baseball is a North American, Latin American, and Japanese sport.