Bob Abreu: Mr. Consistency - Waive him in

[shago]

Year Team G AB R H HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG

1998 PHI 151 497 68 155 17 74 84 133 19 10 .409 .497 .312

1999 PHI 152 546 118 183 20 93 109 113 27 9 .446 .549 .335

2000 PHI 154 576 103 182 25 79 100 116 28 8 .416 .554 .316

2001 PHI 162 588 118 170 31 110 106 137 36 14 .393 .543 .289

2002 PHI 157 572 102 176 20 85 104 117 31 12 .413 .521 .308

2003 PHI 158 577 99 173 20 101 109 126 22 9 .409 .468 .300

2004 PHI 159 574 118 173 30 105 127 116 40 5 .428 .544 .301

2005 PHI 162 588 104 168 24 102 117 134 31 9 .405 .474 .286

2006 PHI-NYY 156 548 98 163 15 107 124 138 30 6 .424 .462 .297

2007 NYY 158 605 123 171 16 101 84 115 25 8 .369 .445 .283

2008 NYY 156 609 100 180 20 100 73 109 22 11 .371 .471 .296

Total 1799 6490 1174 1946 241 1084 1160 1405 318 103 .405 .498 .300

 

Why can't he play CF? Best relative value in the free agent market... Can also rotate in the DH slot and give JD a break. Only downside is that Kenny would trade JD most likely. But an OF of CQ, Bob, and JD? C'mon, it's not even fair...

 

[caulfield12]

First, he will cost the White Sox $16-20 million over 2 years, a little less than we're paying JD for this season.

 

Second, he could play CF only if the competition for that position was Brian Daubach, Rob Mackowiak and Rob Deer with his legs tied together with Greedy in the three-legged sack race.

 

Third, someone else (Dye, Konerko) would have to go probably to make way for his salary.

 

Fourth, he's declining in production and is far from a power hitter...so you're paying for his OBP, hitting from the LH side and pretty decent speed.

 

Pat Burrell, so far, is one of the best relative values in the market today. If the White Sox could get Abreu for $16-18 million and two years, that would be very similar, because just as the Rays needed RH power desperately, and White Sox need a LH, high OBP hitter with above average speed. Unfortunately, his days as an above average defender are well behind him now.

 

 

Edited January 12, 2009 by caulfield12

[GREEDY]

What is with the White Sox fan's obsession with putting players barely good enough to play a corner outfield position in center?

 

Oh wait, it is their GM and Manager's trademark.

 

 

[lostfan]

Good god, I would not mind Bobby Abreu on this team at all, but to have him in CF? Ouch... hell, Josh Fields would probably be better (and he sucks bad in the OF so this is not saying much, but that's the point).

Edited January 12, 2009 by lostfan

[NorthSideSox72]

"Waive" him in? Is that what the Sox would have to do with him if he played CF?

 

If we trade Dye or PK, I'd love to see Abreu come to the Sox, but as a corner OF.

 

[BearSox]

I don't understand this obsession people have for Abreu. It'd make sense if we had a hole at LF, RF, or DH, but we don't. It would not make any sense to trade JD and then go out and sign Abreu, as JD is the better player.

[NorthSideSox72]

I don't understand this obsession people have for Abreu. It'd make sense if we had a hole at LF, RF, or DH, but we don't. It would not make any sense to trade JD and then go out and sign Abreu, as JD is the better player.

Because its not a matter of having Dye or Abreu. Its a matter of having Dye or [Abreu + Pitching].

 

[BearSox]

Because its not a matter of having Dye or Abreu. Its a matter of having Dye or [Abreu + Pitching].

 

Or we could keep Dye and sign pitching. Unless we plan on moving Dye for another prospect like Homer Bailey.

[caulfield12]

On one of the message boards, they have Abreu going to the Reds. I guess that makes sense, in that he would cost less than Dye, and they could also now affordably sign him to a 2 year deal....who knows, though? Some have Dunn and Hudson (who we've heard very little about all offseason) going to Washington.

 

Then there's some idiot who is convinced KW is going to bring back Ray Durham about 5 years past his "sell by" date to start at 2B for us.

[chunk23]

Abreu's poor defense in CF would most likely cancel out his offensive benefits in the long run. He's no Raul Ibanez, but barely.

[lostfan]

Or we could keep Dye and sign pitching. Unless we plan on moving Dye for another prospect like Homer Bailey.

Hi BearSox. I'm The Point. Nice to meet you.

[NorthSideSox72]

Or we could keep Dye and sign pitching. Unless we plan on moving Dye for another prospect like Homer Bailey.

 

 

Hi BearSox. I'm The Point. Nice to meet you.

 

Thank you.

 

Also, yes, if we could sign pitching, that works well too. Its just something that could be hard to do.

 

[DBAHO]

Just FWIW, what type of contract do you think Abreu is going to have to settle for?

 

Something in the Milton Bradley range, or the Pat Burrell range?

 

Because if you could trade Dye, and sign Abreu for a 2/16 deal, I'd be all over that.

 

Unfortunately, from the sounds of it, Bobby wants a bit more $$$$.

[caulfield12]

The most recent guess on Abreu is 2 years and $20 million...a bit more than Burrell, who will be a full-time DH in TB unless Crawford is injured yet again.

[Balta1701]

The most recent guess on Abreu is 2 years and $20 million...a bit more than Burrell, who will be a full-time DH in TB unless Crawford is injured yet again.

My opinion on virtually everyone out there right now is this. We keep hearing we're bumping right up against the budget, or perhaps even are already over budget given the sudden constraints imposed by the economic collapse.

 

If that is the case, then if we are going to spend any additional money, given our current roster, it makes more sense to spend those scraps of money trying to add a cheap starting pitcher, perhaps coming off of an injury (i.e. Garcia-level) to potentially eat up some innings in our rotation than it does to try to scrape together the funds to sign or trade for an expensive player to fill any position.

 

On the other hand, if we can clear some salary, i.e. by moving a guy like Konerko or Dye, and in the process get back additional pitching or money or both, then we ought to be all for this kind of move. But adding in anyone right now other than help for the rotation, if we're at our budget, isn't the best way to go.

[MO2005]

I'm all for it, waive him in! With the team we have now, I can't wait for this season to be over!

[ILMOU]

"Waive" him in? Is that what the Sox would have to do with him if he played CF?

 

If we trade Dye or PK, I'd love to see Abreu come to the Sox, but as a corner OF.

 

...and to be the DH in 2010 when Shelby or JorDanks is ready.

 

[caulfield12]

My opinion on virtually everyone out there right now is this. We keep hearing we're bumping right up against the budget, or perhaps even are already over budget given the sudden constraints imposed by the economic collapse.

 

If that is the case, then if we are going to spend any additional money, given our current roster, it makes more sense to spend those scraps of money trying to add a cheap starting pitcher, perhaps coming off of an injury (i.e. Garcia-level) to potentially eat up some innings in our rotation than it does to try to scrape together the funds to sign or trade for an expensive player to fill any position.

 

On the other hand, if we can clear some salary, i.e. by moving a guy like Konerko or Dye, and in the process get back additional pitching or money or both, then we ought to be all for this kind of move. But adding in anyone right now other than help for the rotation, if we're at our budget, isn't the best way to go.

 

Over at WSI, there's an interesting debate going on about season ticket holders being held hostage...and the predicted dip in revenues for many MLB organizations.

 

Right now, we're supposedly heading towards a $96 million payroll. I haven't seen the latest update...I think you have to take off $7-8 million for Thome, but then you give that all back and more for adding Viciedo (cancelling Swisher) and Jenks' increase in arbitration to around $5 million.

 

Concessions are definitely likely to decline (apparently, they missed their targets already in '08)...that's one area that will really be pinched, as more and more families "brown bag" or eat on the way to the game at local fast food places. Then you have the luxury suites being pinched a little (or a lot), with corporations cutting back wherever they can, especially sports marketing. Families certainly won't be spending as much of their discretionary income on souvenirs, jerseys, hats, etc. Possible declining ad rates and revenues from WGN and/or cable. Less in parking money. The fact is that we've lost about 500,000 in attendance from '06 through '08, and there's a huge fear about walk-up being decreased. We know that the White Sox never seem to draw well in April and May...it's something of a "perfect storm" that we are heading into by heading into the season with the team as constructed.

 

It's a huge risk for KW...maybe his biggest bet yet. It wouldn't have been possible had we missed the playoffs last year, fwiw. It's all predicated on getting results from Flowers, Viciedo, Beckham and Poreda (3 of the 4), along with maybe Allen and Richard. Can we stay competitive for the first 2-3 months of the season without going into 2007's tailspin? Can the older "foundation" players like Konerko, Dye, Thome and AJ stay healthy one more season?

 

KW has a couple of things on his side. Detroit really is no position to fight back in terms of adding talent or payroll. They're already overextended, and have huge messes on their hands with Sheffield and Willis. We can thank our lucky stars they shed Maybin and Jurrgens, and maybe Andrew Miller will become a pitcher someday. But they still have Porcello lurking as a threat. And the Edwin Jackson move looks pretty smart. With the other teams, Minnesota and KC are not improved. Arguably, the Indians are the most improved, with Wood and DeRosa, and who knows what they'll get out of Pavano. But still a number of question marks, just like we have, particularly Travis Hafner. Their OF depth has been hit, too. I think they made a mistake in dealing Franklin Gutierrez. Choo is good as a platoon player.

 

So you have "Midwestern" franchises already feeling the hard hit of the economy, particularly DET. The White Sox have the competitive advantage there and can wait back/lurk and do what the Red Sox have been doing recently....adding players like Kotsay, Baldelli, Smoltz, Saito and Penny. All more or less "high reward/low risk" signings with their payroll. The White Sox can do the same thing, with maybe 2-3 veterans like that, particularly a pitcher or two.

 

In the meantime, KW has to determine....

 

1) Whether Alexei can play SS

2) Whether Fields can play 3B

3) Who can play 2B (Getz or Lillibridge, maybe Nix)?

4) Where is the best destination for Beckham and Viciedo

5) Whether Anderson or Owens can give us anything and/or bring us something back in return

6) What we actually have in Marquez, Richard, Poreda, Egbert, DJ Carasco, etc.

 

KW has 2-3 months to hold the ship together with duct tape and baling wire...and hopefully not end up like the Indians last year or Sox in 2007, so far out of the race that there's no recovery...declining walk-up attendance..."death watch" articles on trading Thome, Dye, Konerko, AJ and Buerhle (sound familiar to 07?)...and these Kids Can Play Ver. 3 or 4.

 

Hopefully they can stay afloat and use their big market leverage to extract veteran pieces from other teams and/or making trades strategically with some of their spare parts in the minor league system, as they've done so well in the past (like the Quentin move, for example).

Edited January 13, 2009 by caulfield12

[Kyyle23]

Is there a premium now on "[ex-sox player] HOF" screen names now? Did i miss the memo?

 

 

maybe I should change my group to Pete Rose Plum Smuggler HOF

[Vance Law]

I like Dye. The team would be better with Abreu plus whatever we get for Dye.

[GreatScott82]

I like Dye. The team would be better with Abreu plus whatever we get for Dye.

If you could get Figgins for Dye. Or even an unproven pitching prospect like Bailey AND sign Abreu i'd say it would be a very smart move by KW. How much is Figgins going to make in 2009? And is that the last year of his current contract?

[phiteinphils]

Oh God, no no no. No. No no. No no no no no. Bobby Abre-no the the epitome of a statistical superstar.

 

Click here for Abreu's career defensive highlight. Videos #6 and #7

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/media/video...80&c_id=nyy

Edited January 13, 2009 by philadelphia sox fan

[GREEDY]

I like Dye. The team would be better with Abreu plus whatever we get for Dye.

 

On the flipside of that, wouldn't the team that would be receiving Dye in the trade, be better off keeping their own talent and signing Abreu?

 

Why give up something of value for JD, when similar players are available for roughly the same money in the FA Market?

 

Until all of the big name free agents have inked, these Dye rumors make zero sense to me unless they are in exchange for a player with a questionable contract.

[Balta1701]

On the flipside of that, wouldn't the team that would be receiving Dye in the trade, be better off keeping their own talent and signing Abreu?

 

Why give up something of value for JD, when similar players are available for roughly the same money in the FA Market?

 

Until all of the big name free agents have inked, these Dye rumors make zero sense to me unless they are in exchange for a player with a questionable contract.

Because Dye is a different sort of player than Abreu. Dye is a big time power hitter from the right hand side. Abreu is a medium level power hitter from the left hand side who is more of an OBP machine than Dye. Dye get you 70 points more slugging (just last year) and probably 15+ more home runs in an equal number of at bats. Strictly in terms of numbers, some teams will fit better with one over another. If you have a left handed heavy lineup, i.e. Cincinnati, where Votto and Bruce both are 20+ home run guys from the left hand side, adding in a lefty like Abreu is setting you up to just be dead meat for left handed pitching. Alternatively, if I'm a team who has good hitters but is just lacking pop (The Dodgers come to mind if they lose Manny) then the extra 15-20 home runs is a major threat in the middle of my lineup that I'm missing out on.

 

(Hell, with G*d, Thome, Fields, and hopefully Konerko putting serious power numbers in our lineup, I can make an argument that Abreu is actually a better fit for us in that the extra OBP will turn in to major run production).

 

Plus, there are personality differences between the 2, where one type might be better on a team full of young guys than another. And since Dye's 2010 year is an option year, there are also contract differences...you can cut JD lose after a year if your team pulls a 2007-2008 Chicago Bulls and falls apart, while if you have to go to 2-3 years with Abreu, you can't.

[GREEDY]

Because Dye is a different sort of player than Abreu. Dye is a big time power hitter from the right hand side. Abreu is a medium level power hitter from the left hand side who is more of an OBP machine than Dye. Dye get you 70 points more slugging (just last year) and probably 15+ more home runs in an equal number of at bats. Strictly in terms of numbers, some teams will fit better with one over another. If you have a left handed heavy lineup, i.e. Cincinnati, where Votto and Bruce both are 20+ home run guys from the left hand side, adding in a lefty like Abreu is setting you up to just be dead meat for left handed pitching. Alternatively, if I'm a team who has good hitters but is just lacking pop (The Dodgers come to mind if they lose Manny) then the extra 15-20 home runs is a major threat in the middle of my lineup that I'm missing out on.

 

(Hell, with G*d, Thome, Fields, and hopefully Konerko putting serious power numbers in our lineup, I can make an argument that Abreu is actually a better fit for us in that the extra OBP will turn in to major run production).

 

Plus, there are personality differences between the 2, where one type might be better on a team full of young guys than another. And since Dye's 2010 year is an option year, there are also contract differences...you can cut JD lose after a year if your team pulls a 2007-2008 Chicago Bulls and falls apart, while if you have to go to 2-3 years with Abreu, you can't.

 

I agree but I didn't necessarily mean just Abreu, it was more of a "general" point. Trade rumors early in the offseason involving players that could easily be replaced in the FA market, don't make a whole lotta sense.

 

These Dye rumors were around when there were several corner outfield choices available. And while you could make an argument that none were as good as Dye (I personally disagree but it could be a case of "you don't know what you got till its gone"), it near impossible to argue that Dye was enough better to warranty giving up good young pitching, when you could sign a FA and keep your talent.