elrockinMT Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Feb 8, 2009 -> 07:55 PM) You are hilarious in your fanboyism. I believe in loyalty is all and I don't waste my energy on bashing Sox players present-past or soon to be past Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 8, 2009 Author Share Posted February 8, 2009 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Feb 8, 2009 -> 02:44 PM) I believe in loyalty is all and I don't waste my energy on bashing Sox players present-past or soon to be past There is a difference in not bashing a player and consistently wishing the Sox would go sign Crede, as you have done all offseason. Its a shame that his back has given out on him and taken him to the point where the White Sox cannot risk signing him anymore, we all saw the promise and skills that he has, but its time to just let it go. He Gawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Sabean's really gotten his act together this offseason. I'd say the addition of Crede would make them the class of the division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Feb 8, 2009 -> 02:44 PM) I believe in loyalty is all and I don't waste my energy on bashing Sox players present-past or soon to be past How is being realistic considered bashing? Crede is not All-Star or GG caliber (anymore for GG). Joe Crede's career numbers are .257 .306 .447. He has under an .800 OPS. Im not sure how you could possibly think he is an All Star. His BEST year was .283 .323 .506. This was now 3 seasons ago. Lets see if his numbers prove that you are correct and he should be considered All Star caliber, and I dont consider him even being on the team in 2008 a good choice. 2008 All Star 3B A-rod: .302 .392 .573 Guillen: .286 .376 .436 Longoria: .272 .343 .531 2007 A-rod: .314 .422 .645 Lowell: .324 .378 .501 Joe Crede 2008:.248 .314 .460 2007: .216 .258 .317 2005: .252 .303 .454 I like Joe Crede as much as anyone and appreciate what he did for the White Sox, but thinking that somehow he is a star is not realistic. And there is nothing disloyal about knowing the actual facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Feb 8, 2009 -> 01:15 PM) Sabean's really gotten his act together this offseason. I'd say the addition of Crede would make them the class of the division. If their kids step up more than expected perhaps. But the D-backs seriously underperformed last year, and the Dodgers still look like they'll wind up with manny. Both of those teams are vastly more loaded than the Giants except at the #2 starter spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 CHOKE CREDE! I'm going to miss saying that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Feb 8, 2009 -> 03:26 PM) How is being realistic considered bashing? Crede is not All-Star or GG caliber (anymore for GG). Joe Crede's career numbers are .257 .306 .447. He has under an .800 OPS. Im not sure how you could possibly think he is an All Star. His BEST year was .283 .323 .506. This was now 3 seasons ago. Lets see if his numbers prove that you are correct and he should be considered All Star caliber, and I dont consider him even being on the team in 2008 a good choice. 2008 All Star 3B A-rod: .302 .392 .573 Guillen: .286 .376 .436 Longoria: .272 .343 .531 2007 A-rod: .314 .422 .645 Lowell: .324 .378 .501 Joe Crede 2008:.248 .314 .460 2007: .216 .258 .317 2005: .252 .303 .454 I like Joe Crede as much as anyone and appreciate what he did for the White Sox, but thinking that somehow he is a star is not realistic. And there is nothing disloyal about knowing the actual facts. Could be because he made the All-Star team last season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Feb 8, 2009 -> 04:28 PM) Could be because he made the All-Star team last season? QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Feb 8, 2009 -> 11:57 AM) He was and is a gold glove all-star caliber player Big difference between being named to an All Star Team and being an All Star caliber player. Joe Crede has never had an All Star caliber season even though he's been named to a team, he's also never even come close to a Silver Slugger caliber season but was awarded one in 2006 because everyone hates Alex Rodriguez. It's also rather silly to call a player gold glove caliber when he's never won a gold glove or a Fielding Bible award. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Feb 8, 2009 -> 03:15 PM) Sabean's really gotten his act together this offseason. I'd say the addition of Crede would make them the class of the division. And their farm is pretty stocked as well. If they can generate a decent offense (i.e. something a little more than 94 HR's), they'll be a major player in the NL. Edited February 8, 2009 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Feb 8, 2009 -> 04:39 PM) Big difference between being named to an All Star Team and being an All Star caliber player. Joe Crede has never had an All Star caliber season even though he's been named to a team, he's also never even come close to a Silver Slugger caliber season but was awarded one in 2006 because everyone hates Alex Rodriguez. It's also rather silly to call a player gold glove caliber when he's never won a gold glove or a Fielding Bible award. Um, can you tell me what the hell a Bible award is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 8, 2009 -> 04:49 PM) Um, can you tell me what the hell a Bible award is? http://www.fieldingbible.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Feb 8, 2009 -> 04:53 PM) http://www.fieldingbible.com/ Thanks. This seems kinda interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Feb 8, 2009 -> 04:39 PM) Big difference between being named to an All Star Team and being an All Star caliber player. Joe Crede has never had an All Star caliber season even though he's been named to a team, he's also never even come close to a Silver Slugger caliber season but was awarded one in 2006 because everyone hates Alex Rodriguez. It's also rather silly to call a player gold glove caliber when he's never won a gold glove or a Fielding Bible award. So you're saying if he makes an All Star team it doesn't make him an all star calibur player, and although he won a Silver Slugger, that doesn't necessarily make him Silver Slugger-calibur. But then said he can't be considered Gold Glove calibur because he's never won the award. That's not very consistent. If you're saying players get these accolades without deserving them, that would mean players who do deserve them don't get them. While I agree he didn't deserve the SS award, its ridiculous to say he's not or at least was a GG-calibur defensive player even without winning the award. If a player has an MVP-calibur season, it doesn't mean he won the MVP, it says his season was worthy enough to win one. There were 2or 3 years at least, no one would have scratched their heads if Crede won a GG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Feb 8, 2009 -> 09:05 PM) There is a difference in not bashing a player and consistently wishing the Sox would go sign Crede, as you have done all offseason. Its a shame that his back has given out on him and taken him to the point where the White Sox cannot risk signing him anymore, we all saw the promise and skills that he has, but its time to just let it go. He Gawn Sorry to say you are probably right that he is gawn. I don't apologize for anything else though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 8, 2009 -> 10:59 PM) So you're saying if he makes an All Star team it doesn't make him an all star calibur player, and although he won a Silver Slugger, that doesn't necessarily make him Silver Slugger-calibur. But then said he can't be considered Gold Glove calibur because he's never won the award. That's not very consistent. If you're saying players get these accolades without deserving them, that would mean players who do deserve them don't get them. While I agree he didn't deserve the SS award, its ridiculous to say he's not or at least was a GG-calibur defensive player even without winning the award. If a player has an MVP-calibur season, it doesn't mean he won the MVP, it says his season was worthy enough to win one. There were 2or 3 years at least, no one would have scratched their heads if Crede won a GG. I stand with you Dick Allen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Crede’s asking price closer to $7 million From the Minneapolis Star Tribune 2/8/09 "Joe Crede is seeking a base salary of closer to $7 million than $5 million, which could decrease the likelihood that the free agent third baseman lands with the Twins, the Star Tribune has learned. A first-time free agent, Crede is willing to settle for a one-year deal, but he’s not looking for a discounted base salary, and he’ll want incentives that will pay him with other elite third baseman if he stays on the field. Adrian Beltre will make $12 million this year, and Eric Chavez will make $11 million. Those could be reference points. If $7 million guaranteed sounds steep for the Twins, consider that they offered Casey Blake a two-year, $14 million contract with an option for 2011 before he accepted his three-year, $17.5 million deal with the Dodgers. The Twins want to continue monitoring Crede’s workouts, but there are indications that Boras is deeper into negotiations with other teams. A San Francisco television station has reported that Crede has a one-year offer from the Giants. No word yet on whether the Twins have made an official offer, but they have had continuing discussions with Boras." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 8, 2009 -> 04:59 PM) So you're saying if he makes an All Star team it doesn't make him an all star calibur player, and although he won a Silver Slugger, that doesn't necessarily make him Silver Slugger-calibur. But then said he can't be considered Gold Glove calibur because he's never won the award. That's not very consistent. If you're saying players get these accolades without deserving them, that would mean players who do deserve them don't get them. While I agree he didn't deserve the SS award, its ridiculous to say he's not or at least was a GG-calibur defensive player even without winning the award. If a player has an MVP-calibur season, it doesn't mean he won the MVP, it says his season was worthy enough to win one. There were 2or 3 years at least, no one would have scratched their heads if Crede won a GG. Well defensive ability is notoriously difficult to quantify, there are no mainstream statistics that I can immediately turn to and base a solid argument off of but the lesser known numbers/metrics we do have and my eyes tell me that Adrian Beltre has been a better defender than Joe Crede since joining the American League (you could also make an argument for Brandon Inge, Scott Rolen and now Evan Longoria) and the Fielding Bible backs this up. Merit is fairly easy to determine when talking about a Silver Slugger award or an All Star appearance but it becomes a bit more difficult with a defensive award. I probably could have elaborated further in the original post but you got me, what I posted was pretty hypocritical, mentioning the Gold Glove was stupid on my part, though the Fielding Bible is different. Joe Crede has always had the potential to be the best at his position but I don't think he's ever been the best defender at his position in his league for a given year and I've never seen a compelling statistical/unbiased argument to the contrary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Feb 8, 2009 -> 03:44 PM) I believe in loyalty is all and I don't waste my energy on bashing Sox players present-past or soon to be past I'll go ahead and stay loyal to the team over the broken-down, has-been player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 8, 2009 Author Share Posted February 8, 2009 QUOTE (scenario @ Feb 8, 2009 -> 05:25 PM) Crede’s asking price closer to $7 million From the Minneapolis Star Tribune 2/8/09 "Joe Crede is seeking a base salary of closer to $7 million than $5 million, which could decrease the likelihood that the free agent third baseman lands with the Twins, the Star Tribune has learned. A first-time free agent, Crede is willing to settle for a one-year deal, but he’s not looking for a discounted base salary, and he’ll want incentives that will pay him with other elite third baseman if he stays on the field. Adrian Beltre will make $12 million this year, and Eric Chavez will make $11 million. Those could be reference points. If $7 million guaranteed sounds steep for the Twins, consider that they offered Casey Blake a two-year, $14 million contract with an option for 2011 before he accepted his three-year, $17.5 million deal with the Dodgers. The Twins want to continue monitoring Crede’s workouts, but there are indications that Boras is deeper into negotiations with other teams. A San Francisco television station has reported that Crede has a one-year offer from the Giants. No word yet on whether the Twins have made an official offer, but they have had continuing discussions with Boras." pfffft post #18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Feb 8, 2009 -> 05:38 PM) pfffft post #18 Ohh man. I've had a bad habit of that lately. Happens when I'm on the road and don't get as much time to read the board. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 uribe, rowand, crede... might have to start rooting for the giants at chavez ravine (and risk gangland retribution) Lol, I know SF will never take him back, but we gotta find a way to get AJ back there to reunite the three stooges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 At least he's not going to be with the Twins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (scenario @ Feb 8, 2009 -> 05:47 PM) Ohh man. I've had a bad habit of that lately. Happens when I'm on the road and don't get as much time to read the board. Sorry. I could care less, just givin you a little crap QUOTE (WilliamTell @ Feb 8, 2009 -> 11:07 PM) At least he's not going to be with the Twins. It isnt a done deal yet Edited February 9, 2009 by kyyle23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I see a few posts talking about how Crede WAS as a player, I dont think anyone is arguing that, its that NOW he isnt up to that standard, as a hitter nor in the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Feb 8, 2009 -> 04:39 PM) Big difference between being named to an All Star Team and being an All Star caliber player. Joe Crede has never had an All Star caliber season even though he's been named to a team, he's also never even come close to a Silver Slugger caliber season but was awarded one in 2006 because everyone hates Alex Rodriguez. It's also rather silly to call a player gold glove caliber when he's never won a gold glove or a Fielding Bible award. exactly. fukudome made the all star team last year, is he a star too?lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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