Derrick Rose's High School Grades Were Altered

[Dick Allen]

Oh, please. That's all hearsay. And highly likely BULLs*** at that. I'm convinced that just about every program cheats.

 

If you're not cheating, you're not trying.

 

And then there's this:

 

 

 

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/c...0,7230960.story

 

 

Do you honestly believe that the same NEVER happens for athletes at illinois??? C'mon now...

I agree. The same Bruce Weber who kept a kid who committed a felony and almost killed a teammate not only on the team, but on scholarship, wouldn't be above playing the game IMO, and even if he doesn't, it doesn't mean there isn't a booster or 20 stuffing Illini baskeball players' pockets with cash and other perks.

Edited June 1, 2009 by Dick Allen

[fathom]

No big time program in college athletics is clean. I have good connections to 3 major programs, and I can say with 100 pct certainty that they've broken the rules with either academic issues or illegal benefits.

[almagest]

If Derrick Rose can't get a 900 on the SAT, he should be drooling on himself. Seriously.

If you saw the curriculum at some of these schools, you wouldn't be surprised at all.

 

Upon graduation of HS, players hoping one day to play in the NBA can either

 

1) Sit on their ass

2) Join AND1

3) Play in Europe

4) Play in Asia

5) Play in Australia

6) Play in South America

7) Play in the NBDL (i think)

8) Play in the USBL, CBA, ABA or any other professional league in the US or Canada

9) Go to college

10) Go to junior college

11) Go to a trade school

12) Join the military

None of those options are better than playing for a high-profile D1 college team, and please don't tell me you're trying to argue that a player's draft position isn't improved by attending a major college program because of one player who *might* be a top 10 pick this year due to a pretty weak draft class.

 

 

I work with a guy who taught at Harper HS in Englewood for 5 years. He's not at all surprised about this, because he faced severe pressure every year from administrators to boost grades for seniors so they could graduate, so the school could meet requirements, and to get the kids out of what's generally a pretty unsafe environment. I really don't think some of you understand what an education from CPS is like. Most of the students don't care about school, their parents don't care, and a large number of teachers don't care (my co-worker often talks about a math teacher who barely covered the curriculum, instead mostly talking about how important it was to free Mumia Abu-Jamal). It's not hard to see why one of the few teachers who does care would alter Rose's grades, to get him out of the school and onto the path that lead to him making almost 5 million dollars this year. It's also not hard to see why a teacher who doesn't care would alter Rose's grades, to continue to pad Harper's reputation as a premiere basketball school in Chicago.

 

I think the desire to see honesty and morality win out in cases like this is admirable, but misplaced. I also wonder what a proposed "solution" to this would be -- make Rose retake the course? He technically passed, so I don't see how that would accomplish anything. Declare his year at Memphis to be void? Again, doesn't really accomplish anything, unless Rose decides to finish his Bachelor's there. Declare Rose ineligible for next season? What "punishment" works here?

[lostfan]

I went to Lindblom, which was a pretty meh school, but Harper made us look like Whitney f***ing Young.

[Soxbadger]

Well heres something I never knew, from yahoo:

 

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/ne...o&type=lgns

 

They do in basketball because NBA commissioner David Stern wanted to control long-term labor costs and use college ball to market his young stars. In 2005, his league began requiring American players (but not Europeans) to be at least one year out of high school to be drafted.

 

I doubt many normal employers could get away with discrimination based on both age and nationality.

 

[Dick Allen]

If its no big deal for Derrick Rose to do what he did, why would it be a big deal for a guy who isn't an NBA prospect, but equally unprepared and unqualified for college to do the exact same thing? Why should anyone competing athletically in college have any business being a college student and have to show some sort of aptitude to be able to actually make progress towards a degree?

 

Who really knows how all these guys are going to pan out. The Flying Illini's most unheralded recruit was Kendall Gill. Have you ever heard him talk about the recruiting visit he took when Bardo got all the attention and he was basically ignored? He turned out to be their best player. Rose had stardom written all over him, but what if he broke his ankle the first day of practice?

Edited June 1, 2009 by Dick Allen

[ptatc]

No big time program in college athletics is clean. I have good connections to 3 major programs, and I can say with 100 pct certainty that they've broken the rules with either academic issues or illegal benefits.

 

This is true. Most illegal payments and such hapen in the athletic training room where the treaments occur and where no press is allowed.

 

However it doesn't make it right and cheating is cheating. If a person is willing to cheat to get what he wants he will do it in all situations. It may be getting into Memphis or during a game or taking illegal PEDS because they are helping him get what he wants. there is no difference.

 

[ChiSox_Sonix]

None of those options are better than playing for a high-profile D1 college team

 

So? I mean, I agree with you, but the point is that they have options. I'm just tired of seeing people blaming the big bad NBA/NCAA for "denying their right to make a livelihood" (which has been mentioned by two different people).

 

and please don't tell me you're trying to argue that a player's draft position isn't improved by attending a major college program because of one player who *might* be a top 10 pick this year due to a pretty weak draft class.

 

I never said that, at all actually. I was just pointing out an example of someone who took another route other than the NCAA. And anyways, since he was essentially the first to do it, there really is nothing to compare.

[Soxbadger]

I guess some people dont believe the NBA should have the right to arbitrarily deny access due to age.

 

Other people believe the NBA should.

 

Its a difference of opinion.

[lostfan]

FWIW, I'm not a fan of watching s***ty 18-year olds play in the NBA.

[almagest]

If its no big deal for Derrick Rose to do what he did, why would it be a big deal for a guy who isn't an NBA prospect, but equally unprepared and unqualified for college to do the exact same thing? Why should anyone competing athletically in college have any business being a college student and have to show some sort of aptitude to be able to actually make progress towards a degree?

This isn't a very good example. Kids who have no interest in academics or athletics don't go to college.

 

Who really knows how all these guys are going to pan out. The Flying Illini's most unheralded recruit was Kendall Gill. Have you ever heard him talk about the recruiting visit he took when Bardo got all the attention and he was basically ignored? He turned out to be their best player. Rose had stardom written all over him, but what if he broke his ankle the first day of practice?

So what's your point? Colleges shouldn't recruit star players because said player might break his ankle? Or colleges shouldn't boot a walk-on player off their roster for a player like Rose because the walk-on might be better than the star recruit? That doesn't make any sense at all.

 

So? I mean, I agree with you, but the point is that they have options. I'm just tired of seeing people blaming the big bad NBA/NCAA for "denying their right to make a livelihood" (which has been mentioned by two different people).

 

I never said that, at all actually. I was just pointing out an example of someone who took another route other than the NCAA. And anyways, since he was essentially the first to do it, there really is nothing to compare.

Sure, they technically have options, but realistically they have to go to college. The only other even semi-realistic option is to play in a good European league for a while, but that denies them a lot of local and national media coverage, as well as opportunities to be seen by scouts.

[Dick Allen]

This isn't a very good example. Kids who have no interest in academics or athletics don't go to college.

 

So what's your point? Colleges shouldn't recruit star players because said player might break his ankle? Or colleges shouldn't boot a walk-on player off their roster for a player like Rose because the walk-on might be better than the star recruit? That doesn't make any sense at all.

 

Sure, they technically have options, but realistically they have to go to college. The only other even semi-realistic option is to play in a good European league for a while, but that denies them a lot of local and national media coverage, as well as opportunities to be seen by scouts.

My point is guys who don't belong in college shouldn't go to college just because they can put a ball in a basket. The fact that he had to cheat to even do that shows a bigger problem.

 

If going to college increases his chances in the NBA draft, then the player should have to take his academics seriously enough to be eligible to play. Just like everyone else in school needs to maintain a certain level of academic abilily in order to land a job of their choice. Rose didn't do that. He had no business being in college.

 

Its not his fault the NBA won't let him into their draft out of HS. It may not be his fault Simeon changed a grade. It may not be his fault his brother took money. It is his fault someone took the test with his name on it.

Edited June 1, 2009 by Dick Allen

[almagest]

My point is guys who don't belong in college shouldn't go to college just because they can put a ball in a basket. The fact that he had to cheat to even do that shows a bigger problem.

 

If going to college increases his chances in the NBA draft, then the player should have to take his academics seriously enough to be eligible to play. Just like everyone else in school needs to maintain a certain level of academic abilily in order to land a job of their choice. Rose didn't do that. He had no business being in college.

Like it or not, athletics is a huge part of college (and high school). Schools make tons of money with their athletic programs. Athletes get preferential treatment. That's not going to change.

 

Its not his fault the NBA won't let him into their draft out of HS. It may not be his fault Simeon changed a grade. It may not be his fault his brother took money. It is his fault someone took the test with his name on it.

Okay. What's the punishment?

 

[bigruss]

Like it or not, athletics is a huge part of college (and high school). Schools make tons of money with their athletic programs. Athletes get preferential treatment. That's not going to change.

 

Okay. What's the punishment?

Make DRose repay his scholarship, any payments received, and loss of all credits gained at Memphis. Also, have some type of charity work or make him donate to a scholarship fund.

 

Have heavy sanctions on Memphis and Calipari for violating the NCAA rules while making a hard statement that this violation will not go unnoticed and unpunished now or in the future. Im talking about big time probation in scholarships, losing the right to playoffs (NCAA tournament I mean), and heavy fines to the program and coach to go towards a scholarship fund (same as DRose, a fund such as one that helps kids going to college from the CPS or something.)

 

Basically, force coaches and programs into the position where the risk is too great to give money to these players.

 

 

[Soxbadger]

As I said before if you want to end it, kill Cal's career and kill the Memphis program.

 

If the risk of cheating is that great, no one will cheat.

 

The problem is the NCAA wants the rules bent so they can get these players. I wouldnt be surprised if the NCAA helped.

[CanOfCorn]

Make DRose repay his scholarship, any payments received, and loss of all credits gained at Memphis. Also, have some type of charity work or make him donate to a scholarship fund.

 

Have heavy sanctions on Memphis and Calipari for violating the NCAA rules while making a hard statement that this violation will not go unnoticed and unpunished now or in the future. Im talking about big time probation in scholarships, losing the right to playoffs (NCAA tournament I mean), and heavy fines to the program and coach to go towards a scholarship fund (same as DRose, a fund such as one that helps kids going to college from the CPS or something.)

 

Basically, force coaches and programs into the position where the risk is too great to give money to these players.

 

This problem is deeper than the NBA, NCAA or high schools. This is adults taking advantage of kids who aren't mature enough to know what to do. For every Kobe, LeBron and Garnett, there's a Kwame Brown, Derrick Rose and Ronnie Fields. Some are ready, some are not.

 

The NBA's rule is flat out dumb. If an player wants to go pro at 18, he should be allowed to, but there should be some sort of league-supported, team-based support system in place monitoring actions, so these guys don't get taken by a member of the entourage or a rogue agent. And a larger minor league system can help ease the transition for some of these players.

 

 

[lostfan]

Make DRose repay his scholarship, any payments received, and loss of all credits gained at Memphis. Also, have some type of charity work or make him donate to a scholarship fund.

 

Have heavy sanctions on Memphis and Calipari for violating the NCAA rules while making a hard statement that this violation will not go unnoticed and unpunished now or in the future. Im talking about big time probation in scholarships, losing the right to playoffs (NCAA tournament I mean), and heavy fines to the program and coach to go towards a scholarship fund (same as DRose, a fund such as one that helps kids going to college from the CPS or something.)

 

Basically, force coaches and programs into the position where the risk is too great to give money to these players.

That's ridiculously harsh, hell, people don't even get those kinds of penalties when they're found to be guilty of plagiarism.

[southsider2k5]

So why is the tone of the Lebron not shaking hands thing worse than Derrick Rose being a cheater?

[Rowand44]

So why is the tone of the Lebron not shaking hands thing worse than Derrick Rose being a cheater?

The tone seems to be the exact same thing on both issues. Some people care a lot and some people just couldn't care less.

[lostfan]

So why is the tone of the Lebron not shaking hands thing worse than Derrick Rose being a cheater?

I've asked this already but why does this thread have 12 pages and not a single person replied to the post I made in the NBA thread about the player that saved that woman's life?

 

Also, what are you talking about, the tone isn't any different, just the people talking. You have people on one hand talking negatively about LeBron, you have a couple people defending him, you have most people saying it isn't a big deal but it was still wrong of him. Basically the exact same as this.

Edited June 2, 2009 by lostfan

[nitetrain8601]

That's ridiculously harsh, hell, people don't even get those kinds of penalties when they're found to be guilty of plagiarism.

 

Not really. This is beyond plagarism. The guy's grades were altered, changed, or not even his. This is way worse than regular plagarism. It's way worse than Sampson last year overall. The only reason why more people are acting careless about it or trying to put it under the rug, is because it's Derrick Rose, from Chicago playing on the hometown Bulls.

[Rowand44]

Not really. This is beyond plagarism. The guy's grades were altered, changed, or not even his. This is way worse than regular plagarism. It's way worse than Sampson last year overall. The only reason why more people are acting careless about it or trying to put it under the rug, is because it's Derrick Rose, from Chicago playing on the hometown Bulls.

Not me. I just couldn't care less that a pro basketball player cheated in high school. It honestly doesn't bother me one bit.

[lostfan]

Not really. This is beyond plagarism. The guy's grades were altered, changed, or not even his. This is way worse than regular plagarism. It's way worse than Sampson last year overall. The only reason why more people are acting careless about it or trying to put it under the rug, is because it's Derrick Rose, from Chicago playing on the hometown Bulls.

No, and please spare me the "this is how you actually feel but you're too blind to see it" lecture. I've already stated how I felt several times.

Edited June 2, 2009 by lostfan

[nitetrain8601]

Not me. I just couldn't care less that a pro basketball player cheated in high school. It honestly doesn't bother me one bit.

 

So it wouldn't bother you one way if you struggled in a class and studied your ass off just to pass a test, while Derrick probably didn't have to show up to class was probably playing hooky with his boys, and he passed that same test that he probably doesn't even know what was being covered? It's kind of like work too. You wouldn't care if your boss let you and a coworker who holds the same position as you were treated differently because he plays golf with the boss? I'm pretty damn sure it would.

 

No, and please spare me the "this is how you actually feel but you're too blind to see it" lecture. I've already stated how I felt several times.

 

Same goes here.

[southsider2k5]

Well heres something I never knew, from yahoo:

 

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/ne...o&type=lgns

 

 

 

I doubt many normal employers could get away with discrimination based on both age and nationality.

 

Isn't Europes secondary education system very different than ours?