VAfan Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I want Beckham to be a permanent fixture at 2B when he comes up and stays. Let Viciedo cover 3B if Fields can't get the hitch in his swing fixed. If Josh succeeds -- and he'll have to find some power, not just singles, to do so -- then move Viciedo the outfield. Chris Getz is a nice little ballplayer, but the Sox are going to need all the power hitters they can find as Thome, Dye, and Konerko ride off into the sunset. Personally, I think we're going to keep Dye on next year for just that reason. He's going to lead the team in HRs, so it would be a huge blow to cut both him and Thome next season. I'd say keep Dye, even at $12 million, and move him to DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubano Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jun 1, 2009 -> 10:41 AM) If there's any legit concerns about GB, it would be with the fielding - 9 errors between AA and AAA in just over 40 games. He may well be better for us at 2B or 3B, long term. Right now, it's a competition between Fields, Getz, and perhaps Nix to hold their position on the team, and this competition might be helping to improve the play of each - not a bad thing. Than you very much. I was waiting for someone to point it out. You have a SS making this amount of errors who clearly has some work to do in his position. Now, let's move him to an unfamiliar position. How about if Beckham begins to struggle in AAA from now on or in the big league once promoted? How about if Viciedo hits 800 from now on in AA? Should had Ozzie sent Alexei to the minors after a dismal first month? Was he ready for the Majors? He hit 200. Would that prove one is ready and the other is not? Viciedo K/AB OBP SLG April 4.05 244 299 May 5.04 316 397 Beckham probably has seen these pitchers in college and A ball. Viciedo saw them in AA for the first time. I like the way he is making adjusments to them. What I am disappointed the most about Viciedo is his D. 11 errors is dismal. His fielding in Cuba was not that great either. Hopefully, he can make adjustments and improved but I doubt it. Players rarely change. You are who you are. I had this discussion before with NorthSideSox72. There are some exceptions to the rule of course. Josh Fields is fielding 950 and he can hit the fastball. He is so late against an MLB fastball that you can go smoke a Cohiba and Fields has not finished his swing yet. Edited June 2, 2009 by Cubano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Funny Beckham tribute by the local station in Birmingham... Linky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I bet he lived up to his nickname. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 QUOTE (Cubano @ Jun 1, 2009 -> 10:56 PM) Than you very much. I was waiting for someone to point it out. You have a SS making this amount of errors who clearly has some work to do in his position. Now, let's move him to an unfamiliar position. How about if Beckham begins to struggle in AAA from now on or in the big league once promoted? How about if Viciedo hits 800 from now on in AA? Should had Ozzie sent Alexei to the minors after a dismal first month? Was he ready for the Majors? He hit 200. Would that prove one is ready and the other is not? Viciedo K/AB OBP SLG April 4.05 244 299 May 5.04 316 397 Beckham probably has seen these pitchers in college and A ball. Viciedo saw them in AA for the first time. I like the way he is making adjusments to them. What I am disappointed the most about Viciedo is his D. 11 errors is dismal. His fielding in Cuba was not that great either. Hopefully, he can make adjustments and improved but I doubt it. Players rarely change. You are who you are. I had this discussion before with NorthSideSox72. There are some exceptions to the rule of course. Josh Fields is fielding 950 and he can hit the fastball. He is so late against an MLB fastball that you can go smoke a Cohiba and Fields has not finished his swing yet. Actually these are viciedo's numbers... April: K/AB - 3.85 ==== OBP .232 ==== Slugging .286 ==== OPS .518 May: K/AB - 5.04 ==== OBP .314 ==== Slugging .397 ==== OPS .711 This only bothers you because you think they are gonna block viciedo, if he were to make the majors at any point. Shortstop is the second most important position behind catcher, and third base is in the back end of the defensive spectrum. To me it makes sense to have beckham make the transition, so he can hurt his team as little as possible in the long run, viciedo means nothing at this point, in comparison with beckham. The sox brass, in my opinion, are not worried about blocking viciedo with beckham. If and when viciedo does come around offensively, something can and will be worked out when the time calls for it (a move to either first or a corner). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 QUOTE (qwerty @ Jun 2, 2009 -> 02:41 AM) The sox brass, in my opinion, are not worried about blocking viciedo with beckham. If and when viciedo does come around offensively, something can and will be worked out when the time calls for it (a move to either first or a corner). Agreed. Viciedo will come around offensively (it's happening now), and he just turned 20, playing in AA. But his D is not major league ready either. Beckham will stay at third long-term and Viciedo will learn the corner outfield IF Dayan can't get it done at 3B. If Dayan does improve his D, Beckham will eventually move to 2B, which shouldn't be a daunting transition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 (edited) One must not forget that the White Sox invested more money in Dayan Viciedo than any player in the history of the game under 20 or 21. It's probably fair to say that they are both viewed equally in the eyes of Sox brass. (In fact, expectations for Joe Borchard having a huge offensive impact were higher on drafting than what almost everyone expects of Gordon, which is a doubles/gap hitter who will give you 15-25 homers and a .280-.310 BA.) Ramirez is DEFINITELY the SS of/for the present and future. You'd have to say having Beckham at 2B and Viciedo at 3B (because of his arm) is the best possible arrangement. Viciedo definitely has developed some bad habits, though. Just the other day he basically cost the Barons a game (along with 2 controversial calls) by trying to one-hand an infield pop fly when he should have used both hands. Whether it's laziness, lack of supervision, being "spoiled" at an early age in Cuba, lack of Tom Emanski/Fred McGriff proper techniques, it's hard to say. Beckham and Viciedo were expected to make a lot of errors. Derek Jeter had an incredible number in Greensboro in 1993...it's whether they can cut down the error totals to reasonable numbers that is the question. Viciedo, like Alexei, has also made some incredibly athletic and "nimble" plays and some of his errors also would have been bailed out by having Paul Konerko at 1B to field some of his throws. We just need to be a little more patient with both these guys. Edited June 2, 2009 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 (edited) Beckham banter: Guillen was asked if he thought talk about Gordon Beckham's promotion to Triple-A Charlotte and move to third base motivated Josh Fields. That set Guillen off on another monologue about last year's top draft choice. "The last thing we worry about is Beckham, and I don't know why people in Chicago fell in love with this kid,' he said. "He's a great player, he's going to be in the big leagues, he's going to be a big part of this organization pretty soon. But we don't have Beckham on our mind right now. I don't, and I'm the one making the lineup. "If we have Beckham here, we're in trouble. That kid needs to play. A lot of people say the difference between Triple A and the big leagues is one jump. It's a huge jump. In Triple A, you're going to face a good pitcher maybe once a week. Here, it's an every-day thing." Ozzie is the master at the back handed compliment. He first makes that statement, then talks about how he is going to be a great player, and a big part of the organization soon. Edited June 2, 2009 by southsideirish71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jun 2, 2009 -> 10:10 AM) Ozzie is the master at the back handed compliment. He first makes that statement, then talks about how he is going to be a great player, and a big part of the organization soon. Ozzie gets sick of being asked the same question about the same players, thats usually when the back handed compliments start flying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubano Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (qwerty @ Jun 2, 2009 -> 03:41 AM) Actually these are viciedo's numbers... April: K/AB - 3.85 ==== OBP .232 ==== Slugging .286 ==== OPS .518 May: K/AB - 5.04 ==== OBP .314 ==== Slugging .397 ==== OPS .711 This only bothers you because you think they are gonna block viciedo, if he were to make the majors at any point. Shortstop is the second most important position behind catcher, and third base is in the back end of the defensive spectrum. To me it makes sense to have beckham make the transition, so he can hurt his team as little as possible in the long run, viciedo means nothing at this point, in comparison with beckham. The sox brass, in my opinion, are not worried about blocking viciedo with beckham. If and when viciedo does come around offensively, something can and will be worked out when the time calls for it (a move to either first or a corner). I got the numbers from here: http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/st...&pid=493364 Believe me it does not bother me Beckham or anybody else will block him. If Viciedo produces, the Sox will find him a position. Once again, Viciedo needs to pull the ball more often to increase his power numbers. It is nice to hit to the opposing field, but he needs to pull the ball and be better defensively. Edited June 2, 2009 by Cubano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 QUOTE (Cubano @ Jun 2, 2009 -> 12:11 PM) I got the numbers from here: http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/st...&pid=493364 Believe me it does not bother me Beckham or anybody else will block him. If Viciedo produces, the Sox will find him a position. Once again, Viciedo needs to pull the ball more often to increase his power numbers. It is nice to hit to the opposing field, but he needs to pull the ball and be better defensively. ^^^^^^ Average now at .274, and his K rate has dropped some. He needs to take some walks, but also start hitting for power, which is a delicate balance. However, the progress has been steady, and he seems to be adjusting to American ball. I'd guess it's about 50-50 whether he winds up at 3b or in the outfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jun 2, 2009 -> 01:23 PM) ^^^^^^ Average now at .274, and his K rate has dropped some. He needs to take some walks, but also start hitting for power, which is a delicate balance. However, the progress has been steady, and he seems to be adjusting to American ball. I'd guess it's about 50-50 whether he winds up at 3b or in the outfield. I have to imagine this kid is hot on the trail of Carlos Lee. No one is going to ever doubt the bat, but the glove is another story. He is a future LF in the making from the sounds of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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