When is this nightmare going to stop?

[DaTank]

It's getting really old watching Clayton Richard throw every fifth day. Poreda has only allowed one run in 7.2 innings. He's got a ton of upside and is obviously a better option than Richard at this point. I'd rather see Poreda go through growing pains, if there are any, than Richard. Put Poreda in the rotation already!

[fathom]

Wait for announcements after this game. There's no way Richard is staying in the rotation when we start the 2nd half. Of course, starting a struggling pitcher on 3 days rest who doesn't have the best stamina to start with is pretty foolish.

[Jack Parkman]

Poreda is fine where he is on the big league club, and that is as the 2nd lefty out of the pen. from what I've seen of him that is the best he'll be is a reliever. He doesn't have the stuff to be a starter. Might as well live with Richard and let him grow as a SP because he has better stuff than Poreda does. IMO Poreda will be a worse starter than Richard if you can believe that is possible

Edited July 9, 2009 by Elgin Slim

[GreatScott82]

Wait for announcements after this game. There's no way Richard is staying in the rotation when we start the 2nd half. Of course, starting a struggling pitcher on 3 days rest who doesn't have the best stamina to start with is pretty foolish.

If Poreda continues to pitch well today. I could see them announcing AP will start after the ASB while CR will head back into the pen.

[kev211]

Poreda is fine where he is on the big league club, and that is as the 2nd lefty out of the pen. from what I've seen of him that is the best he'll be is a reliever. He doesn't have the stuff to be a starter. Might as well live with Richard and let him grow as a SP because he has better stuff than Poreda does.

Does Buehrle have the stuff to be a starter? No you give Poreda a shot before you put him in the bullpen for the rest of his life.

[fathom]

Poreda is fine where he is on the big league club, and that is as the 2nd lefty out of the pen. from what I've seen of him that is the best he'll be is a reliever. He doesn't have the stuff to be a starter. Might as well live with Richard and let him grow as a SP because he has better stuff than Poreda does. IMO Poreda will be a worse starter than Richard if you can believe that is possible

 

You can't keep putting Richard into the rotation when he can't get through 5 innings and his ERA as a starter is approaching 7. This isn't 2007 where we're not competing and can take our lumps.

[brendol]

I would be really surprised if Richard starts next week. We cant keep working the bullpen every time he starts. Unless they bring up Carlos Torres or something, I see Poreda starting next week.

[scenario]

I'd send Richard down to Charlotte.

 

He seems to have completely lost command on his offspeed stuff.

 

No sense giving him another start in Chicago until he shows he's regained it.

 

Doesn't do us much good coming out of the pen with only one pitch working either.

 

Edited July 9, 2009 by scenario

[Jack Parkman]

Does Buehrle have the stuff to be a starter? No you give Poreda a shot before you put him in the bullpen for the rest of his life.

Buehrle is a special case. There is a reason he was a 38th round pick. I just don't believe two pitch pitchers can get through a lineup more than twice. How is Poreda a different pitcher than Richard? Yes, Richard isn't getting the job done, but I don't believe Poreda will be any better until he proves otherwise. After seeing Poreda pitch a couple of innings today, by all means give him a couple of starts. But who do we go to if he fails?

[Marky Mark]

The only thing about Poreda is that he still does not have a passable enough of a change to be a starter. See him once and he's tough to face, see him twice and he's not so bad, see him three times in a game and he's throwing BP

[SoxFan1]

The only thing about Poreda is that he still does not have a passable enough of a change to be a starter. See him once and he's tough to face, see him twice and he's not so bad, see him three times in a game and he's throwing BP

How exactly do you know this? You've seen him start many times I suppose? We drafted him in the first round for a reason, and he had been starting in the minors for a reason as well.

[kev211]

Buehrle is a special case. There is a reason he was a 38th round pick. I just don't believe two pitch pitchers can get through a lineup more than twice. How is Poreda a different pitcher than Richard? Yes, Richard isn't getting the job done, but I don't believe Poreda will be any better until he proves otherwise. After seeing Poreda pitch a couple of innings today, by all means give him a couple of starts. But who do we go to if he fails?

In your post I responded too, you said keep Poreda in the bullpen because he doesn't have the stuff to start. Now your saying give him a shot like I did?

Edited July 9, 2009 by kev211

[joeynach]

The only thing about Poreda is that he still does not have a passable enough of a change to be a starter. See him once and he's tough to face, see him twice and he's not so bad, see him three times in a game and he's throwing BP

 

I agree with that completely. I wouldnt take him out of the BP just yet. When Colon is ready he will start.

[flavum]

I think Poreda would suck in a major league rotation right now.

 

Carlos Torres should be given a shot after the break.

[Jack Parkman]

In your post I responded too, you said keep Poreda in the bullpen because he doesn't have the stuff to start. Now your saying give him a shot like I did?

He should be kept in the bullpen, because he doesn't have the stuff to start, but he got guys out after some guys had seen him more than once today. I'd only seen him pitch for 1 inning before today. You can give him a shot, but I believe he won't be any better than Richard, so that is why I said stick with Richard, plus the fact that I have seen Richard have decent starts before. There was a time where he had 3 brilliant starts in a row right before the Peavy deal, where he was pitching in the mid 90s with the fastball, (and as many different guns as I have seen show this, I truly believe this is legit) had a nasty slider and a good change. I've seen what Richard can do when he's on, and I believe he has better stuff than Poreda. In the starts where Richard has been getting shelled, he either hasn't been throwing the slider at all, or hanging it over the middle of the plate like today.

Edited July 9, 2009 by Elgin Slim

[Flash Tizzle]

I think Poreda would suck in a major league rotation right now.

 

Carlos Torres should be given a shot after the break.

Ok, so we're willing to give Torress a shot but not Poreda?

 

Cmon, now. And I don't give a s*** about Poreda's potential trade value. If the White Sox do, then by all means keep him in the bullpen, but if we're interested in winning games then Poreda should ATLEAST be given four/five starts to prove himself. It's only fair, and considering Richard lasted 11 starts it's not unreasonable.

Edited July 9, 2009 by Flash Tizzle

[whitesoxfan101]

Poreda is fine where he is on the big league club, and that is as the 2nd lefty out of the pen. from what I've seen of him that is the best he'll be is a reliever. He doesn't have the stuff to be a starter. Might as well live with Richard and let him grow as a SP because he has better stuff than Poreda does. IMO Poreda will be a worse starter than Richard if you can believe that is possible

 

I can fully understand why somebody wouldn't want Aaron in the rotation right now, but it's unacceptable to keep Clayton Richard there at this point, especially with us in contention. Clayton is not a starter, which is ok, but you can't continue to start him when such a fact is obvious.

[lostfan]

He should be kept in the bullpen, because he doesn't have the stuff to start, but he got guys out after some guys had seen him more than once today. I'd only seen him pitch for 1 inning before today. You can give him a shot, but I believe he won't be any better than Richard, so that is why I said stick with Richard, plus the fact that I have seen Richard have decent starts before. There was a time where he had 3 brilliant starts in a row right before the Peavy deal, where he was pitching in the mid 90s with the fastball, (and as many different guns as I have seen show this, I truly believe this is legit) had a nasty slider and a good change. I've seen what Richard can do when he's on, and I believe he has better stuff than Poreda. In the starts where Richard has been getting shelled, he either hasn't been throwing the slider at all, or hanging it over the middle of the plate like today.

3 brilliant starts in a row were vs. Toronto, Pittsburgh, and KC. Toronto is decent, PIT and KC not so much. Not trying to take away from Clayton but that streak needs to be in perspective.

 

Clayton Richard belongs in the bullpen. This isn't a knock on Clayton so much as it's a fact, it's not even a bad thing. I mean, Matt Thornton belongs in the bullpen.

[Flash Tizzle]

He should be kept in the bullpen, because he doesn't have the stuff to start, but he got guys out after some guys had seen him more than once today. I'd only seen him pitch for 1 inning before today. You can give him a shot, but I believe he won't be any better than Richard, so that is why I said stick with Richard, plus the fact that I have seen Richard have decent starts before. There was a time where he had 3 brilliant starts in a row right before the Peavy deal, where he was pitching in the mid 90s with the fastball, (and as many different guns as I have seen show this, I truly believe this is legit) had a nasty slider and a good change. I've seen what Richard can do when he's on, and I believe he has better stuff than Poreda. In the starts where Richard has been getting shelled, he either hasn't been throwing the slider at all, or hanging it over the middle of the plate like today.

So the reasoning here is we know what Richard has, and Poreda probably wont be any better as a starter, so why bother?

 

I don't understand what is hurt by starting Poreda four/five times. If he's good, he'll remain in the rotation; if he sucks, then atleast you know what you have and he can be inserted back into the bullpen.

 

And, again, if this is about his trade value keep him in the bullpen. Or just throw him back down to AA so he can continue dominating. But if we care about winning we'll try and see what we have that's already up here. I really don't believe it's a difficult concept.

[Marky Mark]

How exactly do you know this? You've seen him start many times I suppose? We drafted him in the first round for a reason, and he had been starting in the minors for a reason as well.

 

 

I say it simply because no one in the Sox organization has ever stated that he has a changeup that is considered to be of usable quality. I'll I've heard about it is that when he was drafted, he had no change and now he's working on it. He was indeed drafted in the first round, but our own internal development scout was bashing the pick because they couldn't ever see him developing the secondary pitches to succeed as anything but a relief pitcher. He may eventually be a good starter, but right now from what I've heard, he doesn't sound ready. When you have a real good fastball in the minors it can take you places even if you're a SP. In the majors if you have a good fastball you can throw BP. But you need at least 2 passable pitches in addition to your fastball to be a successful starter.

 

If you've read that he has a decent change now show me, I may have just missed it.

[caulfield12]

I say it simply because no one in the Sox organization has ever stated that he has a changeup that is considered to be of usable quality. I'll I've heard about it is that when he was drafted, he had no change and now he's working on it. He was indeed drafted in the first round, but our own internal development scout was bashing the pick because they couldn't ever see him developing the secondary pitches to succeed as anything but a relief pitcher. He may eventually be a good starter, but right now from what I've heard, he doesn't sound ready. When you have a real good fastball in the minors it can take you places even if you're a SP. In the majors if you have a good fastball you can throw BP. But you need at least 2 passable pitches in addition to your fastball to be a successful starter.

 

If you've read that he has a decent change now show me, I may have just missed it.

 

 

Well, Colon when he was dominant could change speeds and location/movement on his FB so well before all of his injuries and getting out of shape that he could get away with it....and even did with a FB in the 80's at times this year. Contreras, many times, is just a two-pitch pitcher, but he has different arm angles to attack with at least.

[Marky Mark]

Yeah, you can get away with it sometimes....but I think we can all agree for the most part that it is a standard in MLB that you need to have at least 3 pitches to succeed as a starter. Especially once the scouting reports get out about you.

[greg775]

There's no way they can trot Clayton back out there after today's start.

I am stunned he's been this bad of late, but no way a big league pitcher can get hit like he gets hit.

He was on top of the world after those early starts, now he's worse than Jose was early in the season.

We can't afford to give games away and we're pretty much giving away the game when Clayton starts.

Bring on Poreda. It's his turn.

 

[caulfield12]

There's no way they can trot Clayton back out there after today's start.

I am stunned he's been this bad of late, but no way a big league pitcher can get hit like he gets hit.

He was on top of the world after those early starts, now he's worse than Jose was early in the season.

We can't afford to give games away and we're pretty much giving away the game when Clayton starts.

Bring on Poreda. It's his turn.

 

 

Contreras, Floyd, Danks and now Richard have all had stretches where they looked almost completely lost, clueless and helpless out there.

 

Only Buehrle has truly been consistent for us, in perhaps his best first half ever, overall.

 

Colon gave us about what many expected, maybe he started more games but had lesser stuff than many hoped coming out of ST, where he was touching 91-92-93 with his FB in order to get the starting nod with Jose at the back end of the rotation.

 

Good work by Cooper to help get those first three guys straightened out, not sure it will be possible with Richard or not...same ?'s exist about him as a starter that existed coming into the season when the "CR/AP" moniker with Jeff Marquez and Lance Broadway as well waiting in line came into being.

[Marky Mark]

It might be time to tell Egbert he is getting his one chance at starting. See how badly he wants make the dream come true. He deserves at least one shot at starting.