He is below average on getting jumps. Similar to Pods. He is awful compared to Rios, who is very good.

Oh, I didn't know that. I don't see him all the time, but I hadn't heard that stuff before.

He makes "spectacular" plays because he gets poor jumps off of the bat and has to use his speed to catch up to the ball.

Is Ellsbury really that awful in CF? He certainly wasn't an awful defensive CF as a prospect.

Going in a alternate direction from UZR Ellsbury has a rating of 3.57 out of 5 in Tom Tango's 2009 "By the Fans, For the Fans" scouting reports where fans rate a player's defensive skills in 7 categories from 1 to 5, the voting has been on going since late August. 3.57 would put him in the bottom 25% of CF voted on. Basically what the voting says is that he has poor instincts/reaction timing, he largely gets by with his blazing speed and his arm is terrible and mostly accounted for the poor overall grade. Take it for what it's worth. The top 10 CF right now are Franklin Gutierrez, Michael Bourn, Carlos Beltran, BJ Upton, Shane Victorino, Mike Cameron, Matt Kemp, Carlos Gonzalez, Andrew McCutchen, Colby Rasmus and Carlos Gomez in that order with Rasmus and Gomez tied for 10th.

No Rowand?!

So, the deal as written fills one of our OF and leadoff holes and does so cheaply, it cuts salary in the bullpen and gets us another LHP arm, and what it costs us is a weakened IF.

 

Move Beckham to SS again, we're back open at 3b. Joshua Fields Forever?

 

Pretty much we're filling 2 holes while opening one at 3b. But we also have people on the way up who eventually might be able to handle it. Run Fields out there and try to salvage something for a year or at least a few months, and maybe it's Viciedo time.

Perhaps Lowrie could be included somehow.

So, the deal as written fills one of our OF and leadoff holes and does so cheaply, it cuts salary in the bullpen and gets us another LHP arm, and what it costs us is a weakened IF.

 

Move Beckham to SS again, we're back open at 3b. Joshua Fields Forever?

 

Pretty much we're filling 2 holes while opening one at 3b. But we also have people on the way up who eventually might be able to handle it. Run Fields out there and try to salvage something for a year or at least a few months, and maybe it's Viciedo time.

Adrian.Beltre.

 

Boras be damned

Adrian.Beltre.

You know, if we've moved Jenks's salary and filled that extra lefty role, then adding a FA like him is possible while still filling the DH role elsewhere.

Adrian.Beltre.

 

Boras be damned

 

s***, I'd be fine with doing the Buster deal (though I doubt the Red Sox would or would need another piece, though they love Alexei) and just sign a defensive stud 3B with average/serivceable numbers like an Adrian Beltre (hopefully his balls are alright) this offseason.

 

Great minds think alike.

Some thoughts:

 

- Coco Crisp (leads off & plays switch) - 2 year deal, option for 3rd

- Akinori Iwamura (lefty bad in bottom order, plays second exceptionally) -2 or 3 year deal with option

- TBD (Left handed bat that drives in runs)

 

LF Crisp - S

3B Beckham - R

RF Quentin - R

DH Left Handed power bat - L

1B Konerko - R

C Pierzynksi - L

CF Rios - R

2B Iwamura - L

SS Ramirez - R

Edited October 24, 200916 yr by whitesox901

Adrian.Beltre.

 

Boras be damned

 

Sign him and Nick Johnson/Thome to DH, and I'll be a happy camper.

Some thoughts:

 

- Coco Crisp (leads off & plays switch) - 2 year deal, option for 3rd

- Akinori Iwamura (lefty bad in bottom order, plays second exceptionally) -2 or 3 year deal with option

- TBD (Left handed bat that drives in runs)

 

LF Crisp - S

3B Beckham - R

RF Quentin - R

DH Left Handed power bat - L

1B Konerko - R

C Pierzynksi - L

CF Rios - R

2B Iwamura - L

SS Ramirez - R

 

As much as I like Iwamura, we are not signing another 2B.

He mentioned Jenks and Alexei to the Red Sox for Bard, Ellsbury, and Okajima. Again.. that was his proposal.

Yes, please.

So, the deal as written fills one of our OF and leadoff holes and does so cheaply, it cuts salary in the bullpen and gets us another LHP arm, and what it costs us is a weakened IF.

 

Move Beckham to SS again, we're back open at 3b. Joshua Fields Forever?

 

Pretty much we're filling 2 holes while opening one at 3b. But we also have people on the way up who eventually might be able to handle it. Run Fields out there and try to salvage something for a year or at least a few months, and maybe it's Viciedo time.

While I think moving Ramirez to another team shouldn't happen, unless Boston wanted to do what Olney suggested, if he was traded, what would you rather have, a SS for the next 10 years or a 3B for the next ten years? That's a no brainer. I think Fields time is up. He gone. I think eventually Beckham is going to be the man and the captain of the White Sox. While Alexei is physically gifted as a defender, I question the mental approach. Its not just having his head in the clouds during certain situations. SS also have to communicate a lot of information to other players. It appears he wasn't very good at that in 2009. I don't know if that's something he can improve, but Beckham at SS with the status he will bring would be a better dynamic IMO. Again, I wouldn't trade Ramirez even though he frustrates me a lot due to his sweet contract and he does have a lot of ability, unless it brought back something similar and Ellsbury and Bard would definitely fit that description.

 

That said, there's probably a 99% chance Ramirez is at SS and Beckham at 3B on April 5,2010 if they both are healthy.

Yes, please.

^^^

 

 

So, the deal as written fills one of our OF and leadoff holes and does so cheaply, it cuts salary in the bullpen and gets us another LHP arm, and what it costs us is a weakened IF.

 

Move Beckham to SS again, we're back open at 3b. Joshua Fields Forever?

 

Pretty much we're filling 2 holes while opening one at 3b. But we also have people on the way up who eventually might be able to handle it. Run Fields out there and try to salvage something for a year or at least a few months, and maybe it's Viciedo time.

I would rather sign Uribe to a cheap 1 year deal to fill that 3b spot until Viciedo is ready. Uribe is aweful behind the plate but the dude still plays solid defense- he did a pretty good job filling for SF when Sanchez went down and he also did a hell of a job for us when Crede wen't down in 2008. I don't want to see Fields anymore. .

I would rather sign Uribe to a cheap 1 year deal to fill that 3b spot until Viciedo is ready. Uribe is aweful behind the plate but the dude still plays solid defense- he did a pretty good job filling for SF when Sanchez went down and he also did a hell of a job for us when Crede wen't down in 2008. I don't want to see Fields anymore. .

Uribe actually hit well this season.

Viciedo isn't going to be a 3rd baseman for the White Sox, there's a chance he may fill in there from time to time, but he's destined for a different position.

I would rather sign Uribe to a cheap 1 year deal to fill that 3b spot until Viciedo is ready. Uribe is aweful behind the plate but the dude still plays solid defense- he did a pretty good job filling for SF when Sanchez went down and he also did a hell of a job for us when Crede wen't down in 2008. I don't want to see Fields anymore. .

 

 

If Olney is correct, I pull the trigger. I love Alexei and Bobby, but man, that'd be the best offer we'd get for them and its a d*** good one at that.

 

Then I do what Scott said and sign Uribe.

 

*Then I cross my fingers and try and pull of an Adrian Gonzalez deal. If not, I leave it as is with the rotation of players.*

 

I like the look of:

 

LF - Ellsbury

3B - Uribe

SS - Beckham

DH - Gonzalez

1B - Konerko

RF - Quentin

CF - Rios

C - Pierzynski

2B - Getz

 

If you have Rios and Quentin bounce back, then that creates the scariest 3-7 in the Majors, along with a good leadoff hitter, a guy that can be a wonderful #2 hitter, a .280-.300 catcher, and a grinder at the bottom.

 

I'm assuming the bullpen would be:

 

CL: Thornton

SU: Bard

SU: Okajima

MR: Linebrink

MR: Pena

MR: Nunez

LR: Hudson/Hynick (if Hudson is trade for Gonzalez)

LR: Carrasco

 

I'm guessing the bench would round out to:

 

Kotsay

Nix

FA Catcher

De Aza

 

I could live with that, since we'd have a monster lineup, serviceable bench, and a sick bullpen.

If Olney is correct, I pull the trigger. I love Alexei and Bobby, but man, that'd be the best offer we'd get for them and its a d*** good one at that.

 

Then I do what Scott said and sign Uribe.

 

*Then I cross my fingers and try and pull of an Adrian Gonzalez deal. If not, I leave it as is with the rotation of players.*

 

I like the look of:

 

LF - Ellsbury

3B - Uribe

SS - Beckham

DH - Gonzalez

1B - Konerko

RF - Quentin

CF - Rios

C - Pierzynski

2B - Getz

 

If you have Rios and Quentin bounce back, then that creates the scariest 3-7 in the Majors, along with a good leadoff hitter, a guy that can be a wonderful #2 hitter, a .280-.300 catcher, and a grinder at the bottom.

 

I'm assuming the bullpen would be:

 

CL: Thornton

SU: Bard

SU: Okajima

MR: Linebrink

MR: Pena

MR: Nunez

LR: Hudson/Hynick (if Hudson is trade for Gonzalez)

LR: Carrasco

 

I'm guessing the bench would round out to:

 

Kotsay

Nix

FA Catcher

De Aza

 

I could live with that, since we'd have a monster lineup, serviceable bench, and a sick bullpen.

I think KW somehow will sign Abreu to be our new DH. If a deal goes down for Ellsbury your lineup would be:

 

Ellsbury CF

Beckham SS

Abreu DH

Quentin LF

Konerko 1B

Pierzynski C

Rios RF

Getz 2B

Uribe/Viciedo 3B

 

Flowers will likely be AJ's backup in 2010 getting a good share of pinch hitting oppurtunties as well. Viciedo may not be a long term 3B, but he'll likely start his career there until Konerko moves on. Thome started his career as a 3B as well before he shifted to 1B.

 

If this speculated deal goes down, we FINALLY have our long term leadoff man and improve our pen. Boston desperately needs a SS and having Jenks and Papelban in their pen would give them tremendous depth. This would be a great trade for both teams IMO. This trade makes us younger-quicker and even more competitive as it would be a perfect blend of veterans and youth- speed and power with much improved defense and a solid pen.

I think KW somehow will sign Abreu to be our new DH. If a deal goes down for Ellsbury your lineup would be:

 

Ellsbury CF

Beckham SS

Abreu DH

Quentin LF

Konerko 1B

Pierzynski C

Rios RF

Getz 2B

Uribe/Viciedo 3B

I think Abreu is out of the picture, as he turned down a $16 Million/2 year deal from the Angels, and I doubt Kenny will want to pay him $10 million a year for 2 or 3 years.

Getting Ellsbury really cuts into your need for Abreu. You've filled all 3 of your OF slots with decent offensive production. A most-of-the-time DH can be had more cheaply than he will and can probably give you similar production overall (Thome, perhaps Johnson, perhaps Delgado, a number of other names too)

I just realized, even though we've gotten all extra psyched about this Sox-Sox trade...does anyone have a link?

I just realized, even though we've gotten all extra psyched about this Sox-Sox trade...does anyone have a link?

It's just something that was mentioned on AM 1000 by Buster Olney.

I am curious what anyone/everyone on the board would think would be realistic to propose as a trade to the Pads for Agon? I think he solves our left handed power problems for years to come if we lock him up for an extension.

I know he is from SD and loves it there but he wants to win as much as anyone.

Edited October 25, 200916 yr by chisoxfan09