Adrian Gonzalez

[witesoxfan]

It's probably going to take some type of organizational suicide to acquire Felix Hernandez at this point. The M's are looking to keep him. Theo can talk all he wants, but I don't think there's any way that Felix is traded.

[bmags]

In terms of overall depth Boston has us beat IMO, but in terms of impact prospects who are ready now I think we may have the edge, and if Boston doesn't want to include Buchholz, then we beat the s*** out of Boston there.

 

Casey Kelly and Tazawa are in there too for them. But again, the Padres should be looking primarily at who is ready now.

 

It also needs to be said that SP is an area of need for Boston more than Gonzalez would be, especially if Bay comes back, and I think they want King Felix a bit more. They may have reservations about dealing a ton of pitching for Adrian when they could deal pitching for a true ace.

 

The Sox can offer something like this:

Dan Hudson - slots in as their #2 behind Latos, right now

Tyler Flowers - starting catcher, right now

Dayan Viciedo - starting 3B, maybe even right now because they'll trade Kouzmanoff, but probably by midseason

Jordan Danks - midseason 2010 starting CF, possibly earlier

Nathan Jones - possible future closer candidate, would likely be up sometime in 2010

 

Then give them 2-3 of the following:

Clevelan Santeliz - could compete for a 2010 spot

Lucas Harrell - could compete for a 2010 spot

Jon Link - could compete for a 2010 spot

Johnny Nunez - could compete for a 2010 spot

CJ Retherford - could start at 2B if they ditched Eckstein

Charlie Shirek - could compete for a 2010 spot

John Shelby - could compete for a 2010 spot

Stefan Gartrell - could compete for a 2010 spot

Christian Marrero - could compete for a 2010 spot

Brent Lillibridge - could compete for a 2010 spot

Carlos Torres - could compete for a 2010 spot

Brent Morel

Jon Gilmore

Santos Rodriguez

Miguel Gonzalez

Charlie Leesman

Steven Upchurch

Nevin Griffith

Gregory Infante

etc.

 

At this point I would want Heath Bell in the deal too, which would make a great deal of sense for us anyway, even if we don't trade Jenks. But the point is, the Sox can offer quite a bit, and certainly nothing that other teams would sneeze at. And I still believe that draining the farm for a bat like Gonzalez is acceptable, because you're draining it in exchange for a shot at a World Series title for two consecutive years.

 

are you talking like a 7 for 1 deal?

 

Theoretically if we did do that, I suppose we could get away with it. 1b Gonzalez is young, becks at 2b, ramirez SS, Teahan 3b. All not needed to be replaced immediately, Teahan though, would hopefully be. OF of CQ, Rios, and ?. Both are on the good side of 30. That leaves C with AJ, which I don´t worry about that much.

 

I´m more interested now than I was. That is a pretty damn good package.

[balfanman]

But the point is, the Sox can offer quite a bit, and certainly nothing that other teams would sneeze at. And I still believe that draining the farm for a bat like Gonzalez is acceptable, because you're draining it in exchange for a shot at a World Series title for two consecutive years.

 

KHP, I like the way you think, in fact........ I think I luv you man.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

It's probably going to take some type of organizational suicide to acquire Felix Hernandez at this point. The M's are looking to keep him. Theo can talk all he wants, but I don't think there's any way that Felix is traded.

I think that all will depend upon extension talks this winter, which has to be #1 on Seattle's list. Felix is going to start making true megastar money pretty soon so they're going to need the cost certainty.

 

If Boston comes along offering Buchholz + Bard + Kelly + more, and Felix is committed to free agency, it will be hard for Seattle to turn that down.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

KHP, I like the way you think, in fact........ I think I luv you man.

LOL

 

I love us both too.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

are you talking like a 7 for 1 deal?

 

Theoretically if we did do that, I suppose we could get away with it. 1b Gonzalez is young, becks at 2b, ramirez SS, Teahan 3b. All not needed to be replaced immediately, Teahan though, would hopefully be. OF of CQ, Rios, and ?. Both are on the good side of 30. That leaves C with AJ, which I don´t worry about that much.

 

I´m more interested now than I was. That is a pretty damn good package.

I think it would have to be that kind of deal, like the Haren deal sort of. I'd try to get Bell too, but I don't know if the Padres would want to package those guys. But we still could do 7 good prospects + 1 throw-in for Adrian alone and come away just fine IMO. Winning one WS title, or just making two consecutive deep trips into the playoffs, would really fire up the fanbase, increase ticket sales, and hike up our payroll while others are falling around the league. And because Adrian is sooo cheap contractually, we would be able to take advantage of FA bargains to fill out remaining holes on the team for 2010. After 2010 then more cash comes off the books just as Danks and Q start to get pretty expensive, and Adrian's deal would still allow flexibility.

[sircaffey]

SD is not going to want Viciedo. They have Headley as their future 3B and Blanks at 1B. Not to mention Viciedo is currently a train wreck at 3B with a move to 1B/DH a distinct possibility.

[bmags]

I think it would have to be that kind of deal, like the Haren deal sort of. I'd try to get Bell too, but I don't know if the Padres would want to package those guys. But we still could do 7 good prospects + 1 throw-in for Adrian alone and come away just fine IMO. Winning one WS title, or just making two consecutive deep trips into the playoffs, would really fire up the fanbase, increase ticket sales, and hike up our payroll while others are falling around the league. And because Adrian is sooo cheap contractually, we would be able to take advantage of FA bargains to fill out remaining holes on the team for 2010. After 2010 then more cash comes off the books just as Danks and Q start to get pretty expensive, and Adrian's deal would still allow flexibility.

 

I understand. And, hypothetically, If rios really sucks, having Mitchell at least allows something to point to.

[ThunderBolt]

SD is not going to want Viciedo. They have Headley as their future 3B and Blanks at 1B. Not to mention Viciedo is currently a train wreck at 3B with a move to 1B/DH a distinct possibility.

I think Blanks, Headley, Gywnn JR, and Cabrera are the only kids that the Padres are really invested in for the long-term. That leaves left and right field for Viciedo. It seems plausible that it could work.

[ThunderBolt]

Yeah, Hynick actually looks like he maybe able to offer us something. He had some really solid numbers in Colorado Springs last year, if I recall correctly.

I like Hynick too. I wouldn't write him off, has a decent pedigree and some good results in a bad pitching enviroment. He's probably our closest minor league pitcher at this point now that Hudson has graduated.

[sircaffey]

Meh.. they have Luis Exposito down there who looks very promising for them not to mention Kotteras, though he might be a throw in at this point though a pretty damn good throw in.. though you can say he was in the overrated category. That's why I said earlier the Sawks could probably crush us in a deal if it came down to a farm's race, but of course.. it also depends who they'd want to give up. Buchholz and Bowden is already a very attractive offer. Just for comparison's sake, you could say Hudson=Bowden in terms of upside/potential with giving Huddy a bit of an edge perhaps. We don't have a Clay Buchholz in our system. Now.. would the red sox want to actually give up that much for Adrian and if that's a need for them? That remains to be seen, but I'm sure they are definitely considering it, not to mention SD and Boston front office have alot of connections.

 

Meh? Exposito and Kottaras are not close to Flowers. Though, for the most part, I agree with the rest of what you said.

[Balta1701]

Just out of curiousity...what do people think he'll be looking at when he hits the FA market after 2011? Is he another Tex kind of contract guy, 8 years, $200 million ish?

[Chisoxfn]

In all seriousness, if Clay Bucholz was out there, the only way we would top that is with either Danks or Floyd. In that case, I hope Kenny folds.

Bucholtz is severely over-rated. He's a very good pitching prospect, but he's not an elite pitching prospect. I don't think Hudson is either, but more than a few people have rated Hudson in the top 10 pitching prospects in baseball currently. I'm not sure where I stand on that theory but Hudson is pretty damn good. Both have questions and neither are sure things (what prospect is), but I would argue that Bucholz isn't hands-down better.

[Balta1701]

Bucholtz is severely over-rated. He's a very good pitching prospect, but he's not an elite pitching prospect. I don't think Hudson is either, but more than a few people have rated Hudson in the top 10 pitching prospects in baseball currently. I'm not sure where I stand on that theory but Hudson is pretty damn good. Both have questions and neither are sure things (what prospect is), but I would argue that Bucholz isn't hands-down better.

He may not be hands-down better, but the biggest advantage he'd have is being at least a year ahead of Hudson, in terms of hitting the big leagues and starting to learn how to get big league hitters out. That's a big advantage for a pitching prospect.

[Chisoxfn]

Just out of curiousity...what do people think he'll be looking at when he hits the FA market after 2011? Is he another Tex kind of contract guy, 8 years, $200 million ish?

IF I were his agent that is where I'd begin the discussions. I drool over the thought of Adrian, but I don't think I give up a package consisting of Danks/Flowers/Hudson and someone else (and i'm referring to D2). I think we have a real nice set of young players that will actually produce and for a team with a payroll limited to 100M or so having a Danks/Flowers/Hudson/Morel/Viciedo producing for us would be absolutely huge for the next 5 years (or even a combination of 2 to 3 of those guys).

 

The reality is this is, even after the Peavy trade, the best farm system we've had in a long long time and I'm not even counting some of our good prep arms that the Sox took in the most recent draft (plus Mitchell). I do think the club will target a pitcher or SS (I got a feeling the Sox might look heavily at the two Titans in the draft....Christian Colon (SS) and Gary Brown (SPEEDY OF). Colon probably goes before the Sox 2nd round pick, Brown is probably available.

 

[Chisoxfn]

He may not be hands-down better, but the biggest advantage he'd have is being at least a year ahead of Hudson, in terms of hitting the big leagues and starting to learn how to get big league hitters out. That's a big advantage for a pitching prospect.

I'd say Bucholtz is the safer bet to be a solid big-leaguer given his 90 inning track record at the ML level this year, but I also think Clay has some flaws to his game (like most players do). The question is could the Sox offer a better all-around package and when Hudson isn't that much of a downgrade and your next best guy is potentially a major upgrade well than it makes things interesting.

 

I still wonder if the two Sox can put together a deal for a Jacoby and Bard or Bowden. I could see the BoSox even having interest in Paulie (they looked at him this past trade deadline).

 

I realize Victor Martinez/Casey Kochman are on board but Victor might catch (who knows) and the Red Sox have to be concerned with Papi. Probably unlikely, but what if:

 

Sox Trade: Ramirez/Konerko for Kochman/Jacoby. Would you guys do it?

[iamshack]

Hey question for you ? Why is it your telling others to tone it down and to watch there language but its ok for you to be a smart as- to me ? I read your profile its says your 12yrs old well if that is true until you accomplished half of what i have done in life . YOU my friend should tone it down .

Oh my! Thank you for alerting me to that inconsistency in my personal information! I appreciate that. I have changed it just for you.

[Balta1701]

I realize Victor Martinez/Casey Kochman are on board but Victor might catch (who knows) and the Red Sox have to be concerned with Papi. Probably unlikely, but what if:

 

Sox Trade: Ramirez/Konerko for Kochman/Jacoby. Would you guys do it?

Unless someoen in our org still thinks Kotchman has enough in the tank to turn into a 20 HR, .280 hitter, no. The Sox would be giving up 2 big offensive threats and getting 1 back. Right now I'm looking at casey as just a backup 1b, and with that, i can't agree to that deal.

[Chisoxfn]

Unless someoen in our org still thinks Kotchman has enough in the tank to turn into a 20 HR, .280 hitter, no. The Sox would be giving up 2 big offensive threats and getting 1 back. Right now I'm looking at casey as just a backup 1b, and with that, i can't agree to that deal.

So your saying we should ask for more back? My thought is you are giving up Konerko but freeing up the resources to spend money on a good DH and a reliever.

 

I'm not sure if the BoSox would include a Bowden or Bard instead of Kochman (or on top of Kochman). I was throwing the idea out as it might be one of the best ways to get a real good, young, top of the order bat, and shed salary.

[witesoxfan]

So your saying we should ask for more back? My thought is you are giving up Konerko but freeing up the resources to spend money on a good DH and a reliever.

 

I'm not sure if the BoSox would include a Bowden or Bard instead of Kochman (or on top of Kochman). I was throwing the idea out as it might be one of the best ways to get a real good, young, top of the order bat, and shed salary.

 

Konerko obviously has 10/5 rights now, but when he signed his deal, he had a partial NTC. I recall Dye's NTC not allowing a trade to Boston, but I sort of remember it with Konerko too. I may be wrong, but if he didn't want to go there in the first place, there's no way he'd go now.

 

I don't actually remember if that's the case, and I can't find the teams to which he won't accept a trade, but it's worth considering.

[Chisoxfn]

Konerko obviously has 10/5 rights now, but when he signed his deal, he had a partial NTC. I recall Dye's NTC not allowing a trade to Boston, but I sort of remember it with Konerko too. I may be wrong, but if he didn't want to go there in the first place, there's no way he'd go now.

 

I don't actually remember if that's the case, and I can't find the teams to which he won't accept a trade, but it's worth considering.

I don't believe that is the case with Konerko.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

So your saying we should ask for more back? My thought is you are giving up Konerko but freeing up the resources to spend money on a good DH and a reliever.

 

I'm not sure if the BoSox would include a Bowden or Bard instead of Kochman (or on top of Kochman). I was throwing the idea out as it might be one of the best ways to get a real good, young, top of the order bat, and shed salary.

The Red Sox are stuck with Ortiz at $12M next year in the final year of his deal. Lowell is there too, and they're probably stuck with him as well, playing 3B. Youkilis is a pretty sweet 1B, but he leaves something to be desired at 3B. Konerko isn't really a fit for them IMO unless they moved another contract or two. They're in on Gonzalez because he's a franchise type player, but Paulie isn't so I don't think they would have interest.

 

Ellsbury for Alexei is interesting but I don't know if either team would do that, and it just opens up another hole for us.

 

IMO the destinations for Konerko, if we moved him, would be either the Giants, Dodgers, Mets, Braves, or maybe even the Orioles in a straight salary dump.

Edited November 12, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[kwolf68]

 

A lot of Everly Brothers fans in here.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

The Red Sox are stuck with Ortiz at $12M next year in the final year of his deal. Lowell is there too, and they're probably stuck with him as well, playing 3B. Youkilis is a pretty sweet 1B, but he leaves something to be desired at 3B. Konerko isn't really a fit for them IMO unless they moved another contract or two. They're in on Gonzalez because he's a franchise type player, but Paulie isn't so I don't think they would have interest.

 

Ellsbury for Alexei is interesting but I don't know if either team would do that, and it just opens up another hole for us.

 

IMO the destinations for Konerko, if we moved him, would be either the Giants, Dodgers, Mets, Braves, or maybe even the Orioles in a straight salary dump.

 

I would say the Giants are probably the best fit amongst that group. I doubt that Dodgers are just going to bench Loney, and I'm pretty sure they tried moving him to the outfield with bad results, and I think the Mets will probably try and sign someone to an incentive laden deal. I don't think the Braves touch him without the Sox taking on some money, and there is no need to just straight up get rid of Konerko, which is what sending him to Baltimore would be. I also seem to recall that during Konerko's free agency, Baltimore actually offered a 5/$65 deal, but that with taxes included it would have actually been less money than he was going to make in either Anaheim or Chicago, though I don't recall the specifics.

 

The Giants seem like the most logical fit, and that'd probably be the best fit too. They are looking to add offense, and Sabean has been known to give up solid prospects for players before (and I'm not even thinking about Pierzynski here)

[Balta1701]

So your saying we should ask for more back? My thought is you are giving up Konerko but freeing up the resources to spend money on a good DH and a reliever.

 

I'm not sure if the BoSox would include a Bowden or Bard instead of Kochman (or on top of Kochman). I was throwing the idea out as it might be one of the best ways to get a real good, young, top of the order bat, and shed salary.

I think I'm saying that Kotchman really doesn't interest me...but if we're making a deal like that, we'd need to find something to fill in for Konerko's bat. If Casey could do that, sure, or if we could sign Laroche, sure, but either way, we need more power.