Quentin for Crawford?

[BigSqwert]

If they threw in Cindy Crawford circa 1992 then I'd be all for it.

[Kalapse]

I don't think people really know who Carl Crawford is, they think they know but he's not nearly as terrific a player as the media portrays him. He's also going to be an insanely expensive baseball player and one who comes with a significant amount of baggage.

[elrockinMT]

If they threw in Cindy Crawford circa 1992 then I'd be all for it.

 

 

Now I know who Cindy Crawford is (let Kalapse know)

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Crawford for Quentin on the surface would be the worst move Kenny has ever made. The only way the Sox should consider moving Carlos is if they think he's going to be hurt for the rest of his career, and if that's the case, please deal him for somebody cheap with superstar potential who will be expected to be part of our future for the next 4-6 years, not some fast guy who is almost certainly going to be asking for $15M+ per next offseason. And if you can't get that, at least go with the best package of prospects you can find. Quentin for Crawford is just so dumb on so many levels. I mean, we can't even afford that contract for one.

[JPN366]

What are some of the players the Sox might look to get from the Rays for Jenks?

 

Jeremy Hellickson?

[SoxAce]

I don't think people really know who Carl Crawford is, they think they know but he's not nearly as terrific a player as the media portrays him. He's also going to be an insanely expensive baseball player and one who comes with a significant amount of baggage.

 

I've been saying for years that he was overrated. But I also said yesterday that given people's proposals (I mean Juan Pierre?! C'mon) and Ozzie's forever fascination with the leadoff hitter, that it makes Crawford that much more sense by the day. I wouldn't mind getting him of course (I'd bank he'll be very, very good in his contract year) but not for a younger Quentin, even if he is made of glass. Jenks + whatever spects... I'm sure KW will certainly listen.

[ptatc]

Crawford for Quentin on the surface would be the worst move Kenny has ever made. The only way the Sox should consider moving Carlos is if they think he's going to be hurt for the rest of his career, and if that's the case, please deal him for somebody cheap with superstar potential who will be expected to be part of our future for the next 4-6 years, not some fast guy who is almost certainly going to be asking for $15M+ per next offseason. And if you can't get that, at least go with the best package of prospects you can find. Quentin for Crawford is just so dumb on so many levels. I mean, we can't even afford that contract for one.

 

when you factor in the injury history of TCQ it's not as lopsided. The D'backs didn't trade him because they didn't think he had talent. They looked at his injury history and though he may be the type of player who is so intense that he might be an injury waiting to happen.

 

So, far they might be right. So, I agree with the part about the Sox concern for injuries and might deal him for a good player like you suggest

Edited December 8, 2009 by ptatc

[dmbjeff]

I can't believe those of you who are saying no to this type of deal. Everyone b****es that we don't have a leadoff hitter and the best leadoff hitter with so much speed and SB potential becomes available an some of you say NO! Are you crazy, the guy is only 28 years old. He is a much better bet to give a 5 year extension than it would have been to get the "great" Chone Figgins or swapping bad contracts and getting a Juan Pierre type.

[bigruss]

I can't believe those of you who are saying no to this type of deal. Everyone b****es that we don't have a leadoff hitter and the best leadoff hitter with so much speed and SB potential becomes available an some of you say NO! Are you crazy, the guy is only 28 years old. He is a much better bet to give a 5 year extension than it would have been to get the "great" Chone Figgins or swapping bad contracts and getting a Juan Pierre type.

You want to give a 5 yr contract worth possibly in the 15 mill a year range to a player who is really overrated? Go ahead. Im happy youre not the GM.

 

Also, I dont remember seeing ANYBODY from this site who proclaimed Figgins as a player worthy of a giant contract. In fact, many people stated that he would be a good player for us next year, but there are many concerns over his age and speed regression along with the amount of money having to be given to him.

 

TCQ has, IMO, much more value than Crawford when including $$$.

[Kalapse]

I can't believe those of you who are saying no to this type of deal. Everyone b****es that we don't have a leadoff hitter and the best leadoff hitter with so much speed and SB potential becomes available an some of you say NO! Are you crazy, the guy is only 28 years old. He is a much better bet to give a 5 year extension than it would have been to get the "great" Chone Figgins or swapping bad contracts and getting a Juan Pierre type.

Chone Figgins got $36M, how much do you think Crawford will net? You're going to have to pay him like he's one of the elite players in baseball even though his offensive production isn't that of an elite ballplayer.

 

Also, do you know for a fact that Crawford would be willing to leadoff because he wasn't willing to do it in Tampa. He's also not a particularly high OBP hitter, Crawford doesn't place a lot of value in walks unfortunately OBP is the #1 thing you look for in a top of the order hitter, not stolen base potential. That power never did develop, his ISO tops out in the mid 100's. Sure he's a great defensive left fielder, what value that truly holds is up for debate. It'd be nice if he weren't prone to fits of complete mental paralysis and his arm wasn't so damn ineffective. Is he willing to start in CF when asked to do so? Because that's a near necessity in my mind, even if the Sox do already have a CF he needs to be willing to move over there when they need him to throughout the year, another thing he didn't want to do it Tampa.

[kwolf68]

I'd take it. Love Quentin's ability, but he's the Marty Havlat of MLB in that he can't stay healthy.

[dmbjeff]

Chone Figgins got $36M, how much do you think Crawford will net? You're going to have to pay him like he's one of the elite players in baseball even though his offensive production isn't that of an elite ballplayer.

 

Also, do you know for a fact that Crawford would be willing to leadoff because he wasn't willing to do it in Tampa. He's also not a particularly high OBP hitter, Crawford doesn't place a lot of value in walks unfortunately OBP is the #1 thing you look for in a top of the order hitter, not stolen base potential. That power never did develop, his ISO tops out in the mid 100's. Sure he's a great defensive left fielder, what value that truly holds is up for debate. It'd be nice if he weren't prone to fits of complete mental paralysis and his arm wasn't so damn ineffective. Is he willing to start in CF when asked to do so? Because that's a near necessity in my mind, even if the Sox do already have a CF he needs to be willing to move over there when they need him to throughout the year, another thing he didn't want to do it Tampa.

 

I can't argue some of your valid points. His OBP isn't that of a .400 type guy, but if you throw out his 2008, injury plagued season and throw out his first 2 years when he was still learning the major league game, his OBP is close to .350. My point is that finding a premier leadoff hitter is much harder to do than to find a power hitting corner outfielder like CQ. As for his power, while it didn't develop as many thought, he still has power compared to many other leadoff guys in the game. As far as dollars, you certainly have to pay alot for Crawford, but he is worth the money. CQ has only had one good season. He is injury prone, it is a fact. I would personally rather have Crawford and a cheap corner OF than CQ and a guy like Pods or Crisp. The cost difference isn't all that much to be honest. Even if Crawford got $15 million, Paulie is coming off the books next season and that contract difference is only $3 million. I would rather my highest paid offensive player be Crawford than Paulie.

[Kalapse]

<!--quoteo(post=2054567:date=Dec 8, 2009 -> 03:43 PM:name=dmbjeff)-->

<!--quotec-->I can't argue some of your valid points. His OBP isn't that of a .400 type guy, but if you throw out his 2008, injury plagued season and throw out his first 2 years when he was still learning the major league game, his OBP is close to .350. My point is that finding a premier leadoff hitter is much harder to do than to find a power hitting corner outfielder like CQ. As for his power, while it didn't develop as many thought, he still has power compared to many other leadoff guys in the game. As far as dollars, you certainly have to pay alot for Crawford, but he is worth the money. CQ has only had one good season. He is injury prone, it is a fact. I would personally rather have Crawford and a cheap corner OF than CQ and a guy like Pods or Crisp. The cost difference isn't all that much to be honest. Even if Crawford got $15 million, Paulie is coming off the books next season and that contract difference is only $3 million. I would rather my highest paid offensive player be Crawford than Paulie.

Well, he's not a leadoff hitter. Hasn't been since 2005, by all accounts he doesn't want to be one. A .350 OBP is basically the minimum of what you should pleased with from a top of the order hitter so that's not exactly getting me excited. How many leadoff hitters make $15M+, you kinda have to hold him to a higher standard when he's the 2nd or 3rd highest paid player of his kind in the game (depending on where Jeter hits) so that .150 ISO is leaving me wanting more.

 

I also don't think it's a fact that Quentin is injury prone but I seem to be alone on that one.

 

Even with Konerko's salary coming off the books in 2011 we have more than a few players getting raises as well, which pretty much cancels out that $12M savings.

 

01 Buehrle   14

02 Floyd     5

03 Peavy     15

04 Danks    ~7

05 Hudson?
 

MR Linebrink 5.5

CL Jenks    ~9 (or you go through the trouble of finding a new closer)

MR Pena     ~1.5

MR Carrasco ~1.5

MR Thornton  3
 

C  Flowers?

1B Viciedo?  1.25

2B Beckham   minimum

3B Teahen    4.75

SS Ramirez   1.1

LF Crawford  15

CF Rios      12

RF ??? (danks?)

DH ???
 

Total:       95.6M

Better hope the few decent prospects we have in the organization pan out.

[GreatScott82]

I would do this deal if we immediatley signed him to an extension. You figure CQ's health has been a major issue and he has yet to play a full season at the MLB level. Ozzie and KW love Crawford and i think he fits the mold of this team perfectly- speed- defense and pitching. If you acquire him and Matsui- you would have aqcuired the 2009 All star game MVP and World Series MVP all in the same week. Not bad!

[bigruss]

Do people not realize just how overpaid Crawford is going to be?

[knightni]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

^^^^^^

 

You don't give up on TCQ.

 

 

[eickevinmorris]

umm wtf are you talking about, please read the thread first before making a comment like this

I read the thread. I didn't see anyone claim BABIP was a relevant statistic on its own. In fact, I've never seen a SABR guy/girl simply throw BABIP out there without batted ball rates or something similar. No one simply looks at BABIP in isolation. You said you didn't believe in its utility, but then stated that you only have a problem with it in isolation. You are failing to understand how BABIP is used -- as it is always coupled with batted ball rates and past BABIP data.

[chw42]

I can't post the full rant I usually do about BABIP but we can leave it at I'm not a believer in BABIP as a useful stat for hitters, and we don't need it to explain Carlos's aberrant stats last year.

 

BABIP is not the only way to evaluate the "luck" of a hitter. You have to look at what type of balls he put in play as well.

[lostfan]

I read the thread. I didn't see anyone claim BABIP was a relevant statistic on its own. In fact, I've never seen a SABR guy/girl simply throw BABIP out there without batted ball rates or something similar. No one simply looks at BABIP in isolation. You said you didn't believe in its utility, but then stated that you only have a problem with it in isolation. You are failing to understand how BABIP is used -- as it is always coupled with batted ball rates and past BABIP data.

You really could've sounded about 3 or 4 shades less condescending, but in any case I really kind of addressed that when I said "I can't post the full rant I usually do about BABIP" so I thought the reason for the lack of semantics was going to be self-evident.

 

Oh and... for the record, yes people look at BABIP in isolation all the time, in this thread, even.

[bmags]

His BABIP last year was .223, which is very, very low.

 

You can say I cheated, and that he listed his OPS. But clearly BABIP was used here on its own here for us to infer that Carlos was unlucky last year.

 

This was the post LF responded to.

[lostfan]

You can say I cheated, and that he listed his OPS. But clearly BABIP was used here on its own here for us to infer that Carlos was unlucky last year.

 

This was the post LF responded to.

Yes. Thank you

[justBLAZE]

Quentin was pretty much untouchable in 2008, funny how things have changed.

[soxfan-kwman]

No way will KW get rid of TCQ. Not with the $$$ Crawford is making.

[eickevinmorris]

You really could've sounded about 3 or 4 shades less condescending, but in any case I really kind of addressed that when I said "I can't post the full rant I usually do about BABIP" so I thought the reason for the lack of semantics was going to be self-evident.

 

Oh and... for the record, yes people look at BABIP in isolation all the time, in this thread, even.

Well post the full rant. Find it and paste it. I'm intrigued. Honestly.

 

 

You can say I cheated, and that he listed his OPS. But clearly BABIP was used here on its own here for us to infer that Carlos was unlucky last year.

 

This was the post LF responded to.

Said poster also followed up by listing Carlos' past BABIP data.

 

[Kyyle23]

Soooooo, how bout that Quentin for Crawford rumor