Jay Mariotti came out publicly on Around the Horn and said he didn't vote for Alomar on the first ballot because "no one belongs on the first ballot" or some spewing bulls***, and I'm pretty sure he didn't vote for Blyleven because he said something like "if it's been this long then he obviously doesn't deserve it."

 

I hope that man is sterilized.

 

Jay Mariotti has a Hall of Fame vote? Are you f***ing kidding me? Yeah, I stand by my statement about the Baseball Writers group being as stupid as the fans who vote for the all-star game.

Jay Mariotti has a Hall of Fame vote? Are you f***ing kidding me? Yeah, I stand by my statement about the Baseball Writers group being as stupid as the fans who vote for the all-star game.

 

That's what he said. This says he's not, but I he got the final say in Around the Horn on like the 4th or 5th and he talked about it then. I left my speakers at school and can't find any headphones, but if someone wants to verify, here's a link to the ATH podcasts.

 

 

(sorry in advance for putting you through hell)

I like Raines, don't get me wrong. But here's my problem with him:

 

He had a great career for about 7 years (1981-1987), then he was just kinda there for the rest of his career. Not really close to being one of the best players in baseball after that.

 

I just don't think the flame was lit long enough. If he extended that greatness for about 3-4 more years, he would be more of a slam dunk.

He's probably the 2nd best leadoff hitter of all time.

That's what he said. This says he's not, but I he got the final say in Around the Horn on like the 4th or 5th and he talked about it then. I left my speakers at school and can't find any headphones, but if someone wants to verify, here's a link to the ATH podcasts.

 

 

(sorry in advance for putting you through hell)

 

I believe you when you said he said it. I also believe he could be lying through his teeth.

I think Alomar gets in next year. Pretty sure Bly and Larkin have a shot as well. Still makes me mad that they didn't get in, though I don't mind Dawson as much especially considering he actually had much better numbers than Jim Rice had when he got in (though I never thought Rice would get in) Only 3 people in the history of the game has 400 homers and 300 Sb. 2/3 are now in the hall (Mays, Dawson) and who knows if Bonds will get in. (though he's got my vote)

 

Kinda bummed out that Robin Ventura will never be on the ballot again even if he wasn't a "hall of fame" type player.

holy s*** that's just absurd...

I think Alomar gets in next year. Pretty sure Bly and Larkin have a shot as well. Still makes me mad that they didn't get in, though I don't mind Dawson as much especially considering he actually had much better numbers than Jim Rice had when he got in (though I never thought Rice would get in) Only 3 people in the history of the game has 400 homers and 300 Sb. 2/3 are now in the hall (Mays, Dawson) and who knows if Bonds will get in. (though he's got my vote)

 

Kinda bummed out that Robin Ventura will never be on the ballot again even if he wasn't a "hall of fame" type player.

 

I think Bonds will get in, but I doubt he gets in within the first 5 years, and it might be 10 years.

How good raines really was...

I know most on this board don't think Baines is a HOFer, but I remember a while ago the Sun-Times had a thing on how he was far better than McGwire aside from HR's. The fact that McGwire gets a lot more votes is kind of a disgrace, and he would be in if he hadn't done roids.

Mariotti with a vote is a joke. There goes Frank's unanimous induction, hehe.

I don't think Mariotti has a vote, he was probably saying what he'd do. Who cares about that jackass anyway.

 

So everyone gets 10 votes? Up to 10 votes, and 26% said no to Blyleven? I really don't get it/

 

Mariotti with a vote is a joke. There goes Frank's unanimous induction, hehe.

 

The 5 morons who sent in blank ballots are a joke. So are the morons who decided to vote for this. Eric freakin Karros got 2 votes. Seriously. David Segui got a vote.

 

Ellis Burks † * 2 0.4%

Eric Karros † * 2 0.4%

Kevin Appier † * 1 0.2%

Pat Hentgen † * 1 0.2%

David Segui † * 1 0.2%

Someone explain to me why Dawson gets in and Murphy can't get 10%.

 

Cubs factor.

I honestly understand votes for Ellis Burks. He was a damn good player. Not Hall of Fame worthy, but a damn good player.

 

Eric Karros is a joke. He was good for like 5 years, and he wasn't that good during 2 of those years.

Segui is a joke. The dude was involved with steroids and was too injury prone to put up any type of good career numbers.

He's probably the 2nd best leadoff hitter of all time.

 

Are you just forgetting about Lou Brock or do really think Raines was better?

 

I'd want Ichiro at the top of my order before Raines as well.

Are you just forgetting about Lou Brock or do really think Raines was better?

Until yesterday, Lou Brock had the lowest OBP of anyone else in the HOF.

Until yesterday, Lou Brock had the lowest OBP of anyone else in the HOF.

 

A great reason why stats don't matter in HOF discussions.

Until yesterday, Lou Brock had the lowest OBP of anyone else in the HOF.

 

 

I did not know that. That obviously then also gives him the lowest OBP of any first-ballot inductee. Funny what over 3,000 hits, 900+ steals and lifetime BA just shy of .300 will cause some writers to overlook.

So for those who actually saw Dawson play, was his defense that good? Cause his offensive stats are not impressive at all for a hall of famer.

So for those who actually saw Dawson play, was his defense that good? Cause his offensive stats are not impressive at all for a hall of famer.

 

He had good range, and one of the best arms you will ever see.

The man is in an elite club.

 

400 HR 300 SB

 

 

Willie Mays and Barry Bonds are the only other two.

 

He had good range, and one of the best arms you will ever see.

This. When he was younger, he had solid range, though that diminished over time - he had some knee problems. But he was a smart player to help make up for it, and he had a serious cannon. One of the strongest OF throwing arms I recall in my lifetime.

 

In his prime, Dawson's defense would rival Clemente.

Its sad to see the HOF turn more into a joke each year. Its turning into the Hall of Really Good

 

I do hate the unofficial "First Ballot" honor that has come into vogue the past decade or so.

 

I looked up some definitions of fame and did not find any that mentioned stats. Fame does not, and never has, meant to be the greatest at something. Some people want to change it to the Hall of Greatest Stats (as long as you didn't take too long to accumulate those stats) I believe overall contribution to the game, character, etc. should also be included. And how does keeping an elite player out make it the hall of really good? It would seem that including a marginal player does that, not leaving out Raines.

 

Having said that, wtf?? . No Bly or Raines? They would have my vote.

 

Why? I have a theory. It seems that the writers are trying to preserve the "First Ballot Honor" and keep it from being a "First Ballot of Really Good". They seem to be trying to hold that honor for the elite players. So next year, without stealing another base, or winning another game, they will become "second ballot" Hall of Fame players. I see us getting to the point were every few years a player will come on the ballot that will achieve the necessary votes on the first ballot. The rest will go through the silly process of getting almost enough, but needing a second or third trip to the ballot.