Balta1701 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Crediting BWJ in the catch-all for this. Link. Just got out of the Twins clubhouse, where Joe Nathan, Ron Gardenhire and team trainers revealed that Nathan has a torn UCL. Your UCL, of course, is your ulnar collateral ligament, which is the ligament that made Tommy John famous and makes everyone else cringe. They're not certain if it's a full tear or a partial tear -- Gardenhire called it "significant" -- and Gardenhire says it's the sort of thing you can't tell until you get in and do surgery. Tommy John surgery. Will they do surgery? Right now, they're taking a wait and see approach. The plan is to give Nathan's arm 2-3 weeks to see if the pain dies down. If so, and if he can pitch with it, he'll do what he can to avoid surgery and try to pitch through the pain. Gardenhire says it's totally Nathan's decision. My strong sense from everyone's body language and mood is that they're pessimistic and surgery is going to happen. Nathan said that it was "not the news I wanted to hear." He said that on the plane on the way back to Florida he was particularly bummed considering how much the Twins did to improve the team this offseason, the new stadium and all of that. As for replacements, Gardenhire was asked if the team would look in-house. Gardenhire said "We got all kinds of arms out there. What, we got 27, 28 guys with arms, so we'll find someone." He wouldn't say who it would be, but the sense is that the team will look in-house for a solution at closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 (edited) Ohhhhhhhhhhhh sh******t the AL Central just got a little more interesting Edited March 9, 2010 by KyYlE23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Jon Rauch, your table is ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 That's tough for the Twins. This is gonna be tough for Nathan also being 35. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Damn. Nathan is 35? Didn't know that. This does suck for the guy considering the team they have and moving intot he new stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 Has there ever been real, legit work that can qualify the number of wins that having an exemplary closer adds to your team? I can see this being the difference between a 92 and an 87 win team easily, especially if they move one of their middle relief guys to closer, get an average performance out of that guy, but then have weaker middle relief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Yesterday on Buster Olney's blog, he compared Nathan's numbers to Mariano's over the last six years. Shows you just how f***ing good the guy has been. Nathan Rivera Saves 246 243 Save % 90.8 93.1 ERA 1.87 1.90 K/9 11.1 8.7 Opp. BA .182 .206 WHIP .093 .094 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Never like seeing guys get injured, especially good people, but I ain't shedding a tear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Mar 9, 2010 -> 10:11 AM) Never like seeing guys get injured, especially good people, but I ain't shedding a tear. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 They always seem to be able to plug in some no-namer into a hole and it works out for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Mar 9, 2010 -> 10:15 AM) They always seem to be able to plug in some no-namer into a hole and it works out for them. But there have been 1 or 2 guys that they haven't been able to replace at all. Santana leads that list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 This doesn't change that much. I’m not trying to make this issue a referendum on my opinions of the closer position, but I fail to see how losing a closer accounts for the large gap in offense between the two teams. This is good news for us, just not the biggest news we could have hoped for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Mar 9, 2010 -> 10:10 AM) This doesn't change that much. I’m not trying to make this issue a referendum on my opinions of the closer position, but I fail to see how losing a closer accounts for the large gap in offense between the two teams. This is good news for us, just not the biggest news we could have hoped for. Yeah, well you just turned it into one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Aww, shucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 It seems that all of my opinions have already been stated, but I have no problem repeating them. This is very good news for the White Sox since Nathan has been the best closer in baseball for a while, although you never like to see this happen to such a (seemingly) good guy. I had no idea Nathan was that old. And if any team can throw in some nobody and not lose a step, it's the Twins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Mar 9, 2010 -> 10:10 AM) This doesn't change that much. I’m not trying to make this issue a referendum on my opinions of the closer position, but I fail to see how losing a closer accounts for the large gap in offense between the two teams. This is good news for us, just not the biggest news we could have hoped for. Well if moves everyone in the bullpen up one inning and inserts an unproven for arguably the best closer in baseball. Matt G. may have had a great year last year, but closing and relieving in the 7th are so radically different. Rauch is a stiff who gives up hits and doesn't K people like Nathan. Outside of the M&M brothers, he is the the next guy they could not afford to lose. I think this is a HUGE injury, not just what you will see on the field in lack of results from the Twins' bullpen, but also the blow mentally it does to the team knowing the 9th is locked down. Edited March 9, 2010 by maggsmaggs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 To me this is a major injury. I agree the Twins have an offensive edge on the Sox, but the White Sox have a pitching edge on the Twins that this just widens. As MaggsMaggs pointed out, this just slots their bullpen one pitcher back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 People forget Nathan was quite a reclamation project when the Twins acquired him from the Giants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Its highly unlikely that any plug-in will perform at the level Nathan does. And having a solid closer does indeed make some difference, though maybe only a couple or three games. Maybe more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Mar 9, 2010 -> 11:18 AM) Yeah, well you just turned it into one. It doesn't have to be anything more then me stating my opinions on this piece of news. I had to preface my opinion before i get accused of saying that Nathan isn't a great pitcher, he is. Only as a rule, i find his position in the pen to be overvalued. That goes for every other closer in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Mar 9, 2010 -> 10:24 AM) It seems that all of my opinions have already been stated, but I have no problem repeating them. This is very good news for the White Sox since Nathan has been the best closer in baseball for a while, although you never like to see this happen to such a (seemingly) good guy. I had no idea Nathan was that old. And if any team can throw in some nobody and not lose a step, it's the Twins. One of, one of. Mo has held the crown for quite some time and still does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Mar 9, 2010 -> 10:10 AM) This doesn't change that much. I’m not trying to make this issue a referendum on my opinions of the closer position, but I fail to see how losing a closer accounts for the large gap in offense between the two teams. This is good news for us, just not the biggest news we could have hoped for. Probably because you are only looking at it from one point of view. Offense Most managers put the closer in the 9th innings of close games. It doesn't mattter if the game is 2-1 because of their high powered offense. If Nathan's replacement loses 5 more games, our offense differential doesn't matter because they lost 5 more games. They still lose that many more games. Most closers get about 40 chances in close games. These are more chances to lose games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 9, 2010 -> 11:41 AM) Its highly unlikely that any plug-in will perform at the level Nathan does. And having a solid closer does indeed make some difference, though maybe only a couple or three games. Maybe more. I suppose it could cause a lot of commotion in their bullpen, attempting to find the correct replacement, thrusting guys into more advanced roles, the effects of certain guys failing in those more advanced roles, etc. The ramifications could be far and wide, or they may be minimal. Just depends on if they go out and get someone or how the guys they have there handle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 QUOTE (ptatc @ Mar 9, 2010 -> 11:47 AM) Probably because you are only looking at it from one point of view. Offense Most managers put the closer in the 9th innings of close games. It doesn't mattter if the game is 2-1 because of their high powered offense. If Nathan's replacement loses 5 more games, our offense differential doesn't matter because they lost 5 more games. They still lose that many more games. Most closers get about 40 chances in close games. These are more chances to lose games. Losing Nathan allows them to shift a guy like Rauch or Guerrier into the closers spot, while letting another one of their 5th starter candidates to make the team. Rauch and Guerrier are by no means Nathan-esque, but they are pitchers who can be inserted into the role and trusted to produce at least league-average results out of the closers role. Their obligation will be to usually pitch one inning a performance, my understanding has always been that one inning shouldn't be too much to ask of any pitcher. Since his shift to the bullpen Nathan has averaged 63.375 innings per year, innings that can be assumed by other members of the pen. It’s unlikely the Twins will get equivalent production, but that’s not fatal. Nathan was a great pitcher, but greatness is not a requirement for the closer’s spot. Losing Nathan might cost them a couple solid performances in the 9th, but as a rule: a closer’s job varies in it’s important on a nightly basis, often with the more important innings falling to the set-up-man. The Twins will take a hit here, but that’s not enough to rule them out of the race. I hope that didn’t’ seem like a lecture, I just needed to put the case out their without leaving anything out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChWRoCk2 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Bad news for Nathan, he has been great for so many years now but I am tired of seeing him shut the door on us and other teams every time he comes in. This would put a nice little dent in their bullpen if he really is out for the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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