That's brilliant.

You don't care who it is, so it could be anyone, regardless of potential....just so it isn't the guys we currently have...

 

I absolutely love that sort of attitude.

 

Why get so upset? I'm not crazy about Kotsay and Jones, the two oldies. I probably should have come up with a name. This may sound dumb but I'd rather see Nix get their at bats than those 2.

Edited April 8, 201015 yr by greg775

Why get so upset? I'm not crazy about Kotsay and Jones, the two oldies. I probably should have come up with a name. This may sound dumb but I'd rather see Nix get their at bats than those 2.

 

He didn't get upset. But your comment was kinda ridiculous. You'd rather see any random name from our paper-thin system instead of Kotsay/Jones just because, um, just because? That's not what I'd call a viable solution. Jayson Nix as our full-time DH? Try again.

Its 2 games. Obviously Ozzie is about the only human being alive that thinks Mark Kotsay is perfect as a DH hitting fifth, but it is only 2 games. He's 0-5. There isn't anyone who has played MLB that hasn't been 0-5 at some point. If KW really despised this idea as much as he wants you to believe, he's not going to stand around and do nothing for a couple of months if they aren't getting production. I'm not that worried about it yet, although I have always wondered what Mark Kotsay brings offensively that is better than what Jim Thome brings.

Edited April 8, 201015 yr by Dick Allen

Seeing that most pitchers are righties we'll be seeing a lot of Kotsay at DH. Awesome.

Over/Under on the number of Kotsay threads that will be created by May? 4?

Yahoo's fantasy baseball writers have an opinion on Kotsay as well

 

Here's a nice snapshot of White Sox baseball in 2010…

 

J. Pierre walked

- J. Pierre stole second

- G. Beckham walked

- C. Quentin flied out to shallow right center

- J. Pierre stole third

- P. Konerko hit sacrifice fly to deep center, J. Pierre scored

- M. Kotsay popped out to shallow center

 

 

The concept is simple: Try to manufacture a run before Mark Kotsay can kill the inning

UNTRUE.

 

Ozzie has a really hard time taking people out of their roles when he establishes them there. And I'm pretty sure Wise only came out of the starting lineup because he got hurt.

They pulled Wise from the leadoff spot after a couple of days and some resounding boos though.

Ozzie's basically been after this type of player I guess for a while.

 

They went with Erstad for a season a while back, and now they're basically got v2.0 of him in Kotsay, who's being put into a situation where he basically can't win, even if he puts up say a .292/.340/.430 line etc.

Ozzie's basically been after this type of player I guess for a while.

 

They went with Erstad for a season a while back, and now they're basically got v2.0 of him in Kotsay, who's being put into a situation where he basically can't win, even if he puts up say a .292/.340/.430 line etc.

That's certainly an interesting and probably accurate way to describe the role Kotsay's being put in...a situation where he can't possibly succeed.

They pulled Wise from the leadoff spot after a couple of days and some resounding boos though.

You can't compare Kotsay and Wise. Kotsay is a much more valuable player. He still shouldn't be batting 5th, but that is a whole other debate. Kotsay is a legitimate major league bench player when healthy at this point in the career (he is even a solid platoon option as a starter when healthy). The guy knows how to play the game, can handle a bat, uses all fields. He's a very solid role player.

You can't compare Kotsay and Wise. Kotsay is a much more valuable player. He still shouldn't be batting 5th, but that is a whole other debate. Kotsay is a legitimate major league bench player when healthy at this point in the career (he is even a solid platoon option as a starter when healthy). The guy knows how to play the game, can handle a bat, uses all fields. He's a very solid role player.

 

How's he a good platoon player when his numbers against RHP aren't even that good?

yeah, I'm OK with him off the bench or when he plays in the field hitting 8th or 9th, but 5th and starting DH is mind boggling...

When I think of him, I think we invested some of that money in starting pitching. Eventually I think he's going to be a helpful cog, he ain't a wheel.

^ See poll.

 

I think Kotsay is a good bat off the bench and good for an occasional start at first, not a starting DH in the 5 hole.

I agree that Kotsay is a good guy to have on the bench. He's shown to be an effective pinch-hitter coming in cold off the bench and plays a pretty good defensive 1B as a backup. He used to be an excellent defensive outfielder and can still be used to back-up the corner OF spots and maybe even CF in a pinch.

 

But having him as a DH is a joke and batting him fifth in the order is worse.

THe problem is not Kotsay. The problem is the entire second half of our lineup.

.......And the leadoff man.

 

I'm confident the second part of the lineup will be fine with the players they're starting, but any lineup that features Pierre leading off along with Mark Kotsay batting fifth is going to be a weak lineup.

There will be a Mark Kotsay thread every time our offense comes up short, just like there were DeWayne Wise, Brent Lillibridge, Corky Miller, Brian Anderson, Josh Fields, Chris Getz, et al, threads last year when we struggled offensively last year.

 

There are no Pierre, Teahen or Ramirez threads...it's not quite fair to single Mark Kotsay out just yet, he's just the easiest one to pick on, like Wise was last year. Fans are no doubt frustrated because obviously this was a pretty glaring weakness to head into the season with.

 

I know someone will point out the Red Sox are starting the likes of Mike Cameron and Marco Scutaro...that you can't field a team of All-Stars at every position. That we have a budget, that our team needs to be more versatile, etc.

 

But this weekend will be a good test. The Twins have come out ready to play, already taking 2/3 from the Angels out on the Coast. USUALLY we play the Twins well in Chicago...we'll have a better idea where we stand over the weekend.

I know someone will point out the Red Sox are starting the likes of Mike Cameron and Marco Scutaro...that you can't field a team of All-Stars at every position. That we have a budget, that our team needs to be more versatile, etc.

Scutaro put up a .380 OBP last year. Based on OPS+, Cameron has been an above average OF bat for the last 11 years.

His wife actually said he won't even go down on her... ouch.

 

 

"So you're telling me there's a chance. Yeahhhh!!!!"

 

 

I think Ozzie must have a clause in his contract entitling him to subject one player each year to the wrath of the fans by grossly and excessively misusing him. Kotsay continues in the grand tradition of Rob Mackowiak, Andy Gonzalez, Erstad, and Wise.

"So you're telling me there's a chance. Yeahhhh!!!!"

 

 

I think Ozzie must have a clause in his contract entitling him to subject one player each year to the wrath of the fans by grossly and excessively misusing him. Kotsay continues in the grand tradition of Rob Mackowiak, Andy Gonzalez, Erstad, and Wise.

With a couple of your examples..."Grossly and excessively misusing them" translates to "having them above AA".

With a couple of your examples..."Grossly and excessively misusing them" translates to "having them above AA".

 

True, but in fairness to Oz, that's on Kenny.

Scutaro put up a .380 OBP last year. Based on OPS+, Cameron has been an above average OF bat for the last 11 years.

 

 

Yes, we would be a lot better off with Scutaro as our leadoff hitter than Juan Pierre.

 

He's actually one of the most underrated players in the game, which is why he caught Esptein's eye, and Bill James, no doubt.

 

As far as Cameron goes, he's always been a little bit of a disappointment. Great defender, but too much of an all-or-nothing hitter. That said, Chris B. Young would thank his lucky stars to be able to have Mike's career post-White Sox from here on out. It's hard not to think of all the busts we've had in CF and look at that big payroll number in Rios and speculate the various ways that money could have been more astutely allocated to balance out our offense a little bit better.

 

But I like Rios a lot, too. I think we won't fully appreciate him until after we watch him play for an entire year when he's putting up his customary numbers.

 

 

Yes, we would be a lot better off with Scutaro as our leadoff hitter than Juan Pierre.

Only if last year's numbers weren't a fluke. He's been in the .330-.350 OBP range most of his career, just like Pierre. Doesn't mean Boston didn't have their reasons or that he's not a good player, but yeah.

So does this mean that the vast majority of Jones' at-bats will be against LHP? After the ST that he had, I would hope that's not Ozzie's strategy.

 

No, I don't think Ozzie is going to flat platoon Jones and only play him against righties. I think if Jones hits well, he'll be the primary starter who will only sit against tough righties (with Kotsay replacing him). If Jones doesn't hit well, than you'll probably see Kenny make a move for a more permanent fixture.

No, I don't think Ozzie is going to flat platoon Jones and only play him against righties. I think if Jones hits well, he'll be the primary starter who will only sit against tough righties (with Kotsay replacing him). If Jones doesn't hit well, than you'll probably see Kenny make a move for a more permanent fixture.

 

I would hope that Jones would be the primary starter, but Kotsay has gotten both starts against RHP so far.