GAME THREAD: 4/8, CLE v CHW, 7:10pm CSN+

[greg775]

Have we always had this much second guessing this early in the season? Seems to me a lot of people are tired of Oz. Do people in St. Louis complain about LaRussa this much?

[ThunderBolt]

I don't have a problem with DH'ing Pierre, you take your weakest outfielder out and you replace him with Jones, while getting Kotsay out of the lineup.

Juan Pierre isn't the weakest outfielder, he's also not that very good of a hitter. He's playing designated hitter today. By definition, Ozzie's doing it wrong. I don't think i've ever been more frustated with Ozzie then i have over these last six months. He's pushing his luck. Andruw Jones better party like it's 1999 tonight, because Alex Rios is the quarterback of this outfield, and it's stupid to screw with a guy who has taken this long to get adjusted in Chicago.

[greg775]

I agree Rios should never be moved from center. The boobirds will be out tonight if Jones makes some obvious blunder in cf.

It would be funny in a way cause Rios got booed some last year.

[fathom]

Have we always had this much second guessing this early in the season? Seems to me a lot of people are tired of Oz. Do people in St. Louis complain about LaRussa this much?

 

Well, if LaRussa told his GM he didn't want a DH so he could have "versatility", and the result was an inferior lineup, then yes they would be second guessing. Greg, you had to know Ozzie would be in the spotlight this season with what he demanded during the offseason.

[fathom]

Ironic thing is tonight would be a great time to get Vizquel in the lineup for Alexei

[Chisoxfn]

I'm fine without Thome. I like the idea of a more diverse lineup, I just wish the Sox had the resources to find a better player than Kotsay/Jones. They did not and we will live with it for now. And for you people that call Ozzie a moron for playing Jones in center, well, quite frankly, you will be proven wrong. Jones is not some hack of a CFer.

[greg775]

Well, if LaRussa told his GM he didn't want a DH so he could have "versatility", and the result was an inferior lineup, then yes they would be second guessing. Greg, you had to know Ozzie would be in the spotlight this season with what he demanded during the offseason.

 

True, but I'm not all educated enough on what he demanded.

He didn't want Thome, right? A lot of people here didn't want Thome either.

And was it Oz who made the call on Dye? A lot of people here didn't want Dye either.

I'm just not caught up on everything that can be put on Oz personnel wise.

Was it Oz or KW who wanted Pierre? I know Oz loves him, but didn't KW have a desire for him as well?

I don't like the weak lineup at all, but I thought we were all in agreement that this team was all about pitching and we'd have to get used to winning games, 3-1 and 4-2.

[ThunderBolt]

And for you people that call Ozzie a moron for playing Jones in center, well, quite frankly, you will be proven wrong. Jones is not some hack of a CFer.

Neither is Alex Rios who is signed to a long-term deal that demands contributions to the team on both offense and defense. Andruw Jones is a reclamation project who has no business being treated like the player he hasn't been for four years, not until he proves he's worthy of that treatment outside of the cactus league.

[greg775]

Didn't Jones DH all last season? Never sniffed the field?

[justBLAZE]

Didn't Jones DH all last season? Never sniffed the field?

 

IIRC he played 17 games in the outfield but none in CF.

 

12 in LF, 5 in RF with few games at 1B and rest of them he was the DH.

Edited April 8, 2010 by justBLAZE

[ThunderBolt]

Can I just say how proud I am of being on a Sox message board, that allows debate, and doesn't resort to screaming, "OZZIE PLAYED MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL!!! YOU HAVEN'T!!! YOU CAN'T QUESTION HIM!!!" when the legitimacy of a managerial move is called into question? This board is great, and one of the best things that ever could have happened for my White Sox fandom.

[iWiN4PreP]

Personally about the CF question - I think its fine either way, as others have stated, the one thing that sways me to want Rios in CF all the time - is the long contract and how he will be here for the next 4-5 years or what not.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

And for you people that call Ozzie a moron for playing Jones in center, well, quite frankly, you will be proven wrong. Jones is not some hack of a CFer.

Again, I'm fine with Jones playing CF, but I'm against moving Rios to LF to accomodate him. Jones can play CF when Rios needs a day off or a little rest at DH. Jones can play RF when Quenting gets a day off or DH duty. Tonight, Jones should be in LF while Pierre is the DH.

 

Rios is the starting regular CFer (or at least should be). He's an excellent defensive centerfielder, is locked up long term and is making the big money. Let him settle in CF and be the leader of the Sox outfield instead of being moved around to accomodate a one year rental.

[Chisoxfn]

Neither is Alex Rios who is signed to a long-term deal that demands contributions to the team on both offense and defense. Andruw Jones is a reclamation project who has no business being treated like the player he hasn't been for four years, not until he proves he's worthy of that treatment outside of the cactus league.

Well in spring training he looked like a guy that can play cf and that has to count for something. Rios has excelled in RF too so there are some that might say he's better off there anyway.

[kane0730]

Ironic thing is tonight would be a great time to get Vizquel in the lineup for Alexei

 

No doubt. Alexei + April/Cold=Bad Ab's.

[qwerty]

Is he seriously DHing Pierre?

 

Face palm*

 

If you're going to DH anyone, DH Quentin. And what the hell? Rios has been great these past two days in center. Why switch him to right?

 

I'm getting sick of Ozzie flipping things around when they've been fine.

 

Our best defensive alignment is pierre, rios, and jones from left to right, i have little doubt. I'm rather high on jones defensively and think he will be more than fine (plus defender) in center when out there. Now do i think rios should be in left in favor of jones? Not so much, it's borderline asinine. Hopefully though jones pulls back two at the fence today and makes ozzie look like a genius, it wouldn't hurt my feelings any.

 

In regards to dhing pierre. I would really have no problem with it if pierre was batting ninth rather than first. But it is what it is. Our problem is this now guarantees our worst hitter in the first place the most plate appearances, and now he has a pretty mean handicap against himself. The problem is dhing is incredibly hard and makes even the best of hitters (vast majority of the time) worse... considerably. I see it like this, carlos quentin dhing would hurt us more offensively than pierre dhing ever could. But then again you have to consider the defensive differential between the two, which does come into play.

 

Positional adjustment in runs per 600 PA.

 

 

 

[Harry Chappas]

Well in spring training he looked like a guy that can play cf and that has to count for something. Rios has excelled in RF too so there are some that might say he's better off there anyway.

 

In previous years Guillen would not move the regular to keep them comfortable thus Rios moved all over the OF last year after he arrived. Yet Guillen will go out of his way to get Jones in there in center and move Rios to LF. Remember when Anderson had to play left...... Jones has an injury history that says, play him in left or DH him. Persoanlly he should DH or Rios should.

 

Who knows.

[ptatc]

I agree Rios should never be moved from center. The boobirds will be out tonight if Jones makes some obvious blunder in cf.

It would be funny in a way cause Rios got booed some last year.

 

it's part of Ozzie's plan to semi-rest his players. Rios is still playing defense but at a less physically demanding position than CF.

 

[EvilJester99]

Wasn't it Ozzie who said Jones is the best CF on this team???

[Leonard Zelig]

Wasn't it Ozzie who said Jones is the best CF on this team???

 

Ozzie said that he asked the players and they consensus was that is was Jones.

[ptatc]

Can I just say how proud I am of being on a Sox message board, that allows debate, and doesn't resort to screaming, "OZZIE PLAYED MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL!!! YOU HAVEN'T!!! YOU CAN'T QUESTION HIM!!!" when the legitimacy of a managerial move is called into question? This board is great, and one of the best things that ever could have happened for my White Sox fandom.

 

there is validity to the point of the people on this board not being in the cluhouse and knowing the players. Maybe Jones is down and needs a confidence boost so he is putting him the situation to see how he does. I'm not saying this is the case but Ozzie will do this for his relief pitchers and young players alot.

 

ozzie may not always be the best x and o manager but he knows players and gives them plenty of room to excel or sink themselves. He basically allows the players to determine if they should be with the team or play. He will do the same with Jones and Kotsay.

[Vote4Pedro]

ozzie may not always be the best x and o manager but he knows players and gives them plenty of room to excel or sink themselves. He basically allows the players to determine if they should be with the team or play. He will do the same with Jones and Kotsay.

im calling BS on that one because Wise should have never been on the club last year if that was the case

[qwerty]

it's part of Ozzie's plan to semi-rest his players. Rios is still playing defense but at a less physically demanding position than CF.

 

Ridiculous. It really is. Left fielders average roughly half of a put out less (it's less than half) per game over the course of a year than center fielders. It's nothing significant, and most definitely not worth putting your team in a worse position to win for some so called ''semi-rest''. I can buy into the rotating dh to keep players fresh and healthy. This on the other hand is baloney, end of story.

Edited April 8, 2010 by qwerty

[ThunderBolt]

there is validity to the point of the people on this board not being in the cluhouse and knowing the players. Maybe Jones is down and needs a confidence boost so he is putting him the situation to see how he does. I'm not saying this is the case but Ozzie will do this for his relief pitchers and young players alot.

 

ozzie may not always be the best x and o manager but he knows players and gives them plenty of room to excel or sink themselves. He basically allows the players to determine if they should be with the team or play. He will do the same with Jones and Kotsay.

Perhaps, but I‘d argue that the gap between people “in the know” and outside the box is far smaller than it ever was. I’d argue that most of us are fully capable of knowing the rights and wrongs about basic lineup construction.

[JorgeFabregas]

Ozzie is biased against people who were born in Alabama.