I want Ozzie and KW gone.

[Jordan4life_2007]

 

Easy to laugh. Or you could say maybe it'd be nice to go INTO a season in which you didn't have to call for upgrades at the deadline. Again, this gets back to my point that Ozzie and KW are overrated because we've been able to somewhat thrive in what's been a mediocre division for the last decade. Try to pull this Mark Kotsay crap in the AL east. You'll be done by all-star break.

[Milkman delivers]

Easy to laugh. Or you could say maybe it'd be nice to go INTO a season in which you didn't have to call for upgrades at the deadline. Again, this gets back to my point that Ozzie and KW are overrated because we've been able to somewhat thrive in what's been a mediocre division for the last decade. Try to pull this Mark Kotsay crap in the AL east. You'll be done by all-star break.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

Can't bring in more salary. You are spending that money on the draft.

 

I didn't, I took Hudson over Teahen.

 

 

[bigruss]

So which five million-ish dollar player on the roster would you not want to have this year to pay for the drafting of players and international signings?

Pierre, Linebrink, Teahen.

[bigruss]

Can't bring in more salary. You are spending that money on the draft.

Dont trade for Pierre and Teahen. Save $3mill from Pierre, $2.25 from Teahen. Dont resign Kotsay, save $1.5. Thats $6.75 on players that suck. Keep Getz at 2nd, and Beckham at 3B. Trade Fields/others for a cheap OF. You save about (6.75-1.2 for 3 replacement level players)= $5.55, and dont lose much in production and save over 5 mill. Or you wait out Pods and resign him at the contract he was offered (apparently that was possible).

 

 

[sircaffey]

My point is that it is easy to say that we have to pay up for a better system. The reality is that if you decide to do that, it means the movement go away from resources that go to the current team, into resources that potentially don't pay off for years, if ever.

Yes and no. Sure Teahen over someone like Viciedo or a stopgap like Mora, Pierre over Podsednik, etc. were slight upgrades, but the actual impact of those upgrades is very small while being expensive. You have to weigh whether these small upgrades are more important that the ability to go out at the deadline and pick up a guy like Cliff Lee. Divisions are largely won at the deadline. For an organization that is led by a gun-slinging GM and has a hard stance on free agency, I'm shocked that millions have been poured into little upgrades instead of the system where LARGE upgrades can be obtained.

[bigruss]

Easy to laugh. Or you could say maybe it'd be nice to go INTO a season in which you didn't have to call for upgrades at the deadline. Again, this gets back to my point that Ozzie and KW are overrated because we've been able to somewhat thrive in what's been a mediocre division for the last decade. Try to pull this Mark Kotsay crap in the AL east. You'll be done by all-star break.

You wouldnt even last that long.

 

You know what? Im okay being a team struggling to get out of the AL Central, Im okay with not being able to trade for top players like Cabrera, Fielder, etc. Im okay that I cant question the methods of this franchise because, well, it just feels wrong to question someone who is better than the crap we used to have, even if they do have major flaws. Im okay with having big resources being wasted on crap players. Im okay giving this team a pass on its downfalls because they won a f***ing WS, and because they did I wont ever question their decisions again, even if I see them being able to easily improve an area that would help win another one.

Edited July 29, 2010 by bigruss22

[southsider2k5]

I didn't, I took Hudson over Teahen.

 

You would still be adding salary, which makes the move impossible.

[southsider2k5]

Dont trade for Pierre and Teahen. Save $3mill from Pierre, $2.25 from Teahen. Dont resign Kotsay, save $1.5. Thats $6.75 on players that suck. Keep Getz at 2nd, and Beckham at 3B. Trade Fields/others for a cheap OF. You save about (6.75-1.2 for 3 replacement level players)= $5.55, and dont lose much in production and save over 5 mill. Or you wait out Pods and resign him at the contract he was offered (apparently that was possible).

 

So we go into training camp without a lead off hitter, and without a left fielder or right fielder.

[bigruss]

So we go into training camp without a lead off hitter, and without a left fielder or right fielder.

Pods-Rios-Quentin, seems fine to me. Thome at DH, youre not any worse offensively, probably much better.

[southsider2k5]

Pods-Rios-Quentin, seems fine to me. Thome at DH, youre not any worse offensively, probably much better.

 

Pods cost $1.75 million, which puts you over budget. Thome would have made it even worse. To cut the $5 million to do all of these organizational growth exercizes, all three of the guys you would have dropped, you would have had about $1.5 million total to replace those three guys.

[bigruss]

Pods cost $1.75 million, which puts you over budget. Thome would have made it even worse. To cut the $5 million to do all of these organizational growth exercizes, all three of the guys you would have dropped, you would have had about $1.5 million total to replace those three guys.

I did say save $3-5 million multiple times, its not a strict number, it would depend year to year on who is available when you pick, and the price tehy are asking. Investing the extra 3-5 million allows you to sign 3-7 big time prospects in rounds you shouldnt be getting them.

[bigruss]

Pods cost $1.75 million, which puts you over budget. Thome would have made it even worse. To cut the $5 million to do all of these organizational growth exercizes, all three of the guys you would have dropped, you would have had about $1.5 million total to replace those three guys.

And really, youre just being picky. You obviously dont agree or are just arguing to argue. Actually add something, not picking at a made up fault (I say made up because the whole time I was saying the reinvestment in the draft was a flex number and you are stating it as if it needs to be 5 mill and its not possible.).

[southsider2k5]

And really, youre just being picky. You obviously dont agree or are just arguing to argue. Actually add something, not picking at a made up fault (I say made up because the whole time I was saying the reinvestment in the draft was a flex number and you are stating it as if it needs to be 5 mill and its not possible.).

 

Its not being picky, it is being realistic. This is the way the Sox operate. If you squeeze out of one end, you lose on another. It is easy to speak in glittering generalities about doing "something", whatever your particular "something" that you feel needs to be done, is. The reality of what is being said in this case is quite difference. Judging by the irritation, I think you are finally understanding the realities of what it would actually take to move money into the farm system.

[bigruss]

Its not being picky, it is being realistic. This is the way the Sox operate. If you squeeze out of one end, you lose on another. It is easy to speak in glittering generalities about doing "something", whatever your particular "something" that you feel needs to be done, is. The reality of what is being said in this case is quite difference. Judging by the irritation, I think you are finally understanding the realities of what it would actually take to move money into the farm system.

No, Ive shown you a very easy way in how to keep the production going, if not improving, at the MLB level while saving money.

 

Im getting frustrated by the fact that people dont read posts anymore, and instead already know what they are going to write instead of reading and taking in the information someone is sharing.

 

Judging by the way you have responded I take it that you are doing that exact thing.

[ptatc]

You wouldnt even last that long.

 

You know what? Im okay being a team struggling to get out of the AL Central, Im okay with not being able to trade for top players like Cabrera, Fielder, etc. Im okay that I cant question the methods of this franchise because, well, it just feels wrong to question someone who is better than the crap we used to have, even if they do have major flaws. Im okay with having big resources being wasted on crap players. Im okay giving this team a pass on its downfalls because they won a f***ing WS, and because they did I wont ever question their decisions again, even if I see them being able to easily improve an area that would help win another one.

 

You can always question it, good fans always should. I just disagree with your premise that they are doing a good job. However, KW and Ozzie have gotten good results with the resources allotted to them over the past 10 years. We all know the KW spent most of the resources on pitching and the offense was going to suffer. You can micromanage every move or look at the big picture. You can prefer to focus on the minors or the major league team, KW doesn't have the resources to really improve both. No one has said you can't question it, I just disagree.

[Tannerfan]

I just went back and re-read Jordan4life's thread starter and all I can think to say is; I had no idea the spirit of George Steinbrenner would return to earth in another human body so quickly.

[southsider2k5]

No, Ive shown you a very easy way in how to keep the production going, if not improving, at the MLB level while saving money.

 

Im getting frustrated by the fact that people dont read posts anymore, and instead already know what they are going to write instead of reading and taking in the information someone is sharing.

 

Judging by the way you have responded I take it that you are doing that exact thing.

 

Actually you haven't proven anything. All you have shown is that what you are talking about can't be applied in reality, and while still fielding a competitive team. And step off of the all mighty high ground, I haven't exactly seen you change an iota in your position either. Who isn't taking in anyone else's information in lieu of their own opinion?

[soxfan3530]

man this thread is nuts. I think we can all agree that we want to have a good farm system and that it helps both the MLB roster and for making trades...

 

Oh the Sox won again btw.

[bigruss]

Actually you haven't proven anything. All you have shown is that what you are talking about can't be applied in reality, and while still fielding a competitive team. And step off of the all mighty high ground, I haven't exactly seen you change an iota in your position either. Who isn't taking in anyone else's information in lieu of their own opinion?

I havent seen anybody really claim anything but Ozzie and KW field a decent team every year, and the outlier being 2007. I never discoutned that, but no one expanded on it.

 

And I guess youre just not understanding or agreeing with me on what is reality, because I think it was very possible to have Pods-Rios-Quentin with Thome at DH, saving millions, staying productive.

 

Ptatc just posted that he understands my opinion and he respectfully disagrees with it, and I respect that. Meanwhile, youre the one trying to say my philosophy is not reality and cannot be done, without really stating why besides its hard.

 

I never said it would be easy, and its not just one offseason in which you make these changes. Obviously, it would be hard to cut alot of salary from the payroll in one fell swoop, but with smarter decisions regarding contracts, the team can save 3-5 million a year and reinvest it. Hell, in 2006 that was Uribe's salary, or Crede's. Replacing a underperforming player making 5 mill with a comparable player for league minimum is a smart move.

[southsider2k5]

I havent seen anybody really claim anything but Ozzie and KW field a decent team every year, and the outlier being 2007. I never discoutned that, but no one expanded on it.

 

And I guess youre just not understanding or agreeing with me on what is reality, because I think it was very possible to have Pods-Rios-Quentin with Thome at DH, saving millions, staying productive.

 

Ptatc just posted that he understands my opinion and he respectfully disagrees with it, and I respect that. Meanwhile, youre the one trying to say my philosophy is not reality and cannot be done, without really stating why besides its hard.

 

I never said it would be easy, and its not just one offseason in which you make these changes. Obviously, it would be hard to cut alot of salary from the payroll in one fell swoop, but with smarter decisions regarding contracts, the team can save 3-5 million a year and reinvest it. Hell, in 2006 that was Uribe's salary, or Crede's. Replacing a underperforming player making 5 mill with a comparable player for league minimum is a smart move.

 

This is what I mean about glittering generalities. If Uribe is gone in 2006, we don't win in 2008. Also the reality is, if everyone could find $500,000 players who would give you what your $5,000,000 players would, everyone would do it! It sounds great, but in reality, it just isn't as easy as it sounds. Sure if you keep changing the rules about how to do it, it gets easier.

[bigruss]

This is what I mean about glittering generalities. If Uribe is gone in 2006, we don't win in 2008. Also the reality is, if everyone could find $500,000 players who would give you what your $5,000,000 players would, everyone would do it! It sounds great, but in reality, it just isn't as easy as it sounds. Sure if you keep changing the rules about how to do it, it gets easier.

Did we really need Crede in 08? Or was that just unnecessary money spent on a player in which we had a replacement for? That money wasted on Crede gives you your draft money right there. There is waste on this Sox team right now, denying that that money couldnt and shouldnt be used in other areas is wrong and a terrible philosophy.

[southsider2k5]

Did we really need Crede in 08? Or was that just unnecessary money spent on a player in which we had a replacement for? That money wasted on Crede gives you your draft money right there. There is waste on this Sox team right now, denying that that money couldnt and shouldnt be used in other areas is wrong and a terrible philosophy.

 

Josh Fields was the next guy in line in 2008 at 3B.

[bigruss]

Josh Fields was the next guy in line in 2008 at 3B.

And coming off his 07 season, having Crede was just wasteful.

[southsider2k5]

And coming off his 07 season, having Crede was just wasteful.

 

Fields had an OPS+ of 10 in 2008 along with a .917 fielding percentage in his time up here. THAT is why they brought back Joe Crede.