Who else were we going to sign for that money that was better?

 

I would love Andruw Jones back on this team.

BTW, I think the thread title says "sigh" instead of "sign" right now.

I'm excited about this team. I really like this bullpen, especially if they start Sale in the rotation and move him to closer after Peavy's return.

What does the bullpen look like with healthy Peavy?

 

 

What does the bullpen look like with healthy Peavy?

 

Like one the of the deepest, most orgasmic, ones ever.

What does the bullpen look like with healthy Peavy?

Sale, Santos, Thornton, Crain, Ohman, Pena, and probably Infante.

 

Look, I'm not a huge fan of multi year deals for relievers but this is anything but crippling and people have NO right to be angry about anything this offseason to be perfectly honest. Minus the Phillies and Red Sox I'll put our roster up against anyones.

Sale, Santos, Thornton, Crain, Ohman, Pena, and probably Infante.

 

Look, I'm not a huge fan of multi year deals for relievers but this is anything but crippling and people have NO right to be angry about anything this offseason to be perfectly honest. Minus the Phillies and Red Sox I'll put our roster up against anyones.

Even if he winds up struggling for 1 of these 2 years, it's not a huge writeoff/loss.

If only Ozzie will use him properly as a LOOGY and not misuse him as he did with Randy Williams, Boone Logan, etc.

I won't go nuts over two years and 4 million. But my stance on relievers remains the same. And I'm one that doesn't believe this team is any better outside the massive upgrade in Dunn. If Beckham and CQ don't bounce back and PK regresses along with not having Peavy for possibly half the season we could once again fall short to the Twins or even the Tigers.

Can't wait for the day when Ohman is pitching in the 12th inning as nobody is left to be used against the Royals in mid-July

 

This move allows them to move Sale into the rotation or have Thorton close.

 

Nice low risk move.

I won't go nuts over two years and 4 million. But my stance on relievers remains the same. And I'm one that doesn't believe this team is any better outside the massive upgrade in Dunn. If Beckham and CQ don't bounce back and PK regresses along with not having Peavy for possibly half the season we could once again fall short to the Twins or even the Tigers.

 

Well yeah...Not having arguably your most talented pitcher and having two of your better offensive players totally flunk will definitely put us in a bad position.

Well yeah...Not having arguably your most talented pitcher and having two of your better offensive players totally flunk will definitely put us in a bad position.

I'm still amazed at how well this team performed last year given the fact that they willingly went into the season with such blatant roster holes.

Well yeah...Not having arguably your most talented pitcher and having two of your better offensive players totally flunk will definitely put us in a bad position.

 

Sounds obvious. But it seems like many around here think this team is 10 wins better or something. They're still a lot of question marks.

I won't go nuts over two years and 4 million. But my stance on relievers remains the same. And I'm one that doesn't believe this team is any better outside the massive upgrade in Dunn. If Beckham and CQ don't bounce back and PK regresses along with not having Peavy for possibly half the season we could once again fall short to the Twins or even the Tigers.

I understand your stance and the risk behind signing relievers to multi-year deals, but how else were we going to improve our bullpen for 2011? Free agency was our only option and that meant offering multi-year deals. There's obviously a huge risk that Crain and/or Ohman sucks in one of their years with us, but would you rather throw out two unproven minor leaguers without great track records in 2011 to avoid that risk? Given our situation, I'll worry about 2012 and 2013 later. It would have been utterly stupid to go into the season with obvious holes in the bullpen, given the potential of our offense and rotation, because we were worried Crain and Ohman MIGHT be bad in future years.

Great acquisition.

 

I think Matty Thornton just became our closer!

Sounds obvious. But it seems like many around here think this team is 10 wins better or something. They're still a lot of question marks.

This team could EASILY be 10 wins better. Adam Dunn instead of Kotsay...3.5 ish wins. Remove Mark Teahen and replace him with an average player would be 1.5 wins (since he was worthless)...replacing him with an above average defender would be more than that. Getting rid of Randy Williams and replacing him with Ohman is half a win. Replacing Jenks could be worth >1 win. Then Pierzynski, Quentin, and Beckham all had very much down years.

I understand your stance and the risk behind signing relievers to multi-year deals, but how else were we going to improve our bullpen for 2011? Free agency was our only option and that meant offering multi-year deals. There's obviously a huge risk that Crain and/or Ohman sucks in one of their years with us, but would you rather throw out two unproven minor leaguers without great track records in 2011 to avoid that risk? Given our situation, I'll worry about 2012 and 2013 later. It would have been utterly stupid to go into the season with obvious holes in the bullpen, given the potential of our offense and rotation, because we were worried Crain and Ohman MIGHT be bad in future years.

 

Well when I see a team like the Braves spit out Johnny Venters and Craig Kimbrel in one season or the Padres seemingly piecing together a solid bullpen every year without having to overpay in years and money in free agency, yes, it would be nice if the system could produce a competent arm every now and then.

Great signing if Ozzie doesn't f*** up using Ohman. He should be pitching to Hafner, Mauer, Morneau, Kubel, Sizemore, etc. not Cuddyer, Billy Butler, Cabrera.

Edited January 8, 201115 yr by maggsmaggs

Sounds obvious. But it seems like many around here think this team is 10 wins better or something. They're still a lot of question marks.

 

FWIW, I combined the projections out there right now and they have the Sox at 93 wins. That's with pretty moderate projections on Beckham and Quentin and Peavy making 23 starts.

Edited January 8, 201115 yr by chw42

2 yrs/$4M. I said 2 yrs/$5M, with no chance he makes less than $4M. Yeah....I'm just that good.

This team could EASILY be 10 wins better. Adam Dunn instead of Kotsay...3.5 ish wins. Remove Mark Teahen and replace him with an average player would be 1.5 wins (since he was worthless)...replacing him with an above average defender would be more than that. Getting rid of Randy Williams and replacing him with Ohman is half a win. Replacing Jenks could be worth >1 win. Then Pierzynski, Quentin, and Beckham all had very much down years.

 

And there's certainly no guarantee that they bounce back. And PK will most certainly regress. And I'm really worried about Sale and the pressure that's going to be on him since Peavy had to act like a tough guy and pitch when he clearly shouldn't have been.

 

Well when I see a team like the Braves spit out Johnny Venters and Craig Kimbrel in one season or the Padres seemingly piecing together a solid bullpen every year without having to overpay in years and money in free agency, yes, it would be nice if the system could produce a competent arm every now and then.

The system is regularly producing competent arms! Santos! Infante! Carter within a year! And that same organization you're praising has a number of retreads from other teams in its bullpen. Scott Linebrink, George Sherrill, Scott Proctor. Peter Moylan, their closer, they signed as a free agent 25 year old following his showing for an international team in the 2006 World Baseball classic.

And there's certainly no guarantee that they bounce back. And PK will most certainly regress. And I'm really worried about Sale and the pressure that's going to be on him since Peavy had to act like a tough guy and pitch when he clearly shouldn't have been.

There's no guarantee for anything man, this is baseball. I can give plausible reasons why the Phillies will struggle next year.

 

The Sox are in the best possible place they can be. I'm thrilled about that.

The system is regularly producing competent arms! Santos! Infante! Carter within a year! And that same organization you're praising has a number of retreads from other teams in its bullpen. Scott Linebrink, George Sherrill, Scott Proctor. Peter Moylan, their closer, they signed as a free agent 25 year old following his showing for an international team in the 2006 World Baseball classic.

 

Santos isn't a product of the Sox system. We lucked into him. And his peripherals scream regression. I have no idea why you threw Carter and Infante at me. They've proven next to nothing. And even Carter's minor league numbers were mediocre. Thing is I was more than willing to give both a shot at the expense of handing out 2-3 year deals to relievers.

There's no guarantee for anything man, this is baseball. I can give plausible reasons why the Phillies will struggle next year.

 

The Sox are in the best possible place they can be. I'm thrilled about that.

 

I know that. But I think some are overrating our offseason. Dunn without question makes us better. Everything else is a toss-up right now.