Santos isn't a product of the Sox system. We lucked into him. And his peripherals scream regression. I have no idea why you threw Carter and Infante at me. They've proven next to nothing. And even Carter's minor league numbers were mediocre. Thing is I was more than willing to give both a shot at the expense of handing out 2-3 year deals to relievers.

The other thing is that KW has traded a lot of our relievers off too. Adam Russell is a big league reliever. Boone Logan, like him or not, is a Yankee.

The other thing is that KW has traded a lot of our relievers off too. Adam Russell is a big league reliever. Boone Logan, like him or not, is a Yankee.

 

Nick Masset, David Aardsma and DLS come to mind. Yet we're trading a 1B prospect for Tony Pena. I've said it before and I'll say it again. KW was a jedi master from 2004-2007. He's been horses*** since then [save the Dunn signing].

Nick Masset, David Aardsma and DLS come to mind. Yet we're trading a 1B prospect for Tony Pena. I've said it before and I'll say it again. KW was a jedi master from 2004-2007. He's been horses*** since then [save the Dunn signing].

Yeah, that was still a bad trade.

I think it's "LOOGY" with 2 O's.

 

And doesn't Ozzie was 12 pitchers, not 11? I would think Anthony Carter may be added to your pen as well.

 

LR - Pena

MR - Infante

MR - Carter

LOOGY - Ohman

SU - Crain

SU- Santos

CL - Thornton

 

Yuck, what an awful bullpen.

The Sox will have to score a ton of runs.

 

Yuck, what an awful bullpen.

The Sox will have to score a ton of runs.

Huh?

Even without Sale, this is a very adequate bullpen for the AL Central. Good move, it's cheap and gives us options.

Santos isn't a product of the Sox system. We lucked into him. And his peripherals scream regression. I have no idea why you threw Carter and Infante at me. They've proven next to nothing. And even Carter's minor league numbers were mediocre. Thing is I was more than willing to give both a shot at the expense of handing out 2-3 year deals to relievers.

 

The Sox were the team who wanted to make him a pitcher and succeeded at doing it. That makes him our product.

Yuck, what an awful bullpen.

The Sox will have to score a ton of runs.

 

How is that an awful bullpen?

 

2010-2011

Thornton = Thornton

Santos

Putz > Crain

Pena = Pena

Williams

Linebrink ? Infante (Although I think Infante can't be as bad as Linebrink)

Jenks > Carter

 

 

Now these roles don't line up exactly, being that Thornton is moving to closer (maybe), and other pieces are moving around roles, but I think this bullpen is pretty decent. Last year's bullpen was better, but I don't think we are going to be off by much.

How is that an awful bullpen?

 

2010-2011

Thornton = Thornton

Santos

Putz > Crain

Pena = Pena

Williams

Linebrink ? Infante (Although I think Infante can't be as bad as Linebrink)

Jenks > Carter

 

 

Now these roles don't line up exactly, being that Thornton is moving to closer (maybe), and other pieces are moving around roles, but I think this bullpen is pretty decent. Last year's bullpen was better, but I don't think we are going to be off by much.

Why do you say that Putz is clearly better than Crain? When Putz was 100% on, you're right, but Putz was hurt for about a month, hit the DL, and was poor for a few games around that injury, while Crain wasn't.

 

Furthermore, somewhere in there, it seems almost 100% certain that Sale will appear at some point. If you have that happen, then every single one becomes better or at least equal to last year.

 

Cl: Thornton > Jenks

Crain = Putz

Pena = Pena

Santos > Santos

Infante > Linebrink

Sale = Thornton

Ohman > Williams

And there's certainly no guarantee that they bounce back. And PK will most certainly regress. And I'm really worried about Sale and the pressure that's going to be on him since Peavy had to act like a tough guy and pitch when he clearly shouldn't have been.

AJ and Beckham are guaranteed to be better this season just as PK is guaranteed to regress, I'm 100 percent positive on all 3 of those.

 

Yes, we have question marks just like every other team and just like we did going into 05 but we also have 0 holes on this team which really hasn't been the case in a few years now.

 

As I said earlier in the thread, I'll put our roster up against anyones minus the Phils and BoSox.

AJ and Beckham are guaranteed to be better this season just as PK is guaranteed to regress, I'm 100 percent positive on all 3 of those.

 

Yes, we have question marks just like every other team and just like we did going into 05 but we also have 0 holes on this team which really hasn't been the case in a few years now.

 

As I said earlier in the thread, I'll put our roster up against anyones minus the Phils and BoSox.

Completely agree.

 

Rotation is great, could be terrific at full health.

Bullpen is solid.

Offense is solid.

Infield defense is top-notch.

Outfield defense is solid.

 

No holes whatsoever. Complete everywhere. May not be top 5 in starter's ERA, runs, bullpen ERA, total defense, but we are pretty darn close in all facets.

Completely agree.

 

Rotation is great, could be terrific at full health.

Bullpen is solid.

Offense is solid.

Infield defense is top-notch.

Outfield defense is solid.

 

No holes whatsoever. Complete everywhere. May not be top 5 in starter's ERA, runs, bullpen ERA, total defense, but we are pretty darn close in all facets.

 

Not that these are holes but there are some weak spots. Offensive production from 3B position, defensive capability of RF, arm strength of LF. I agree there could be much worse in terms of holes, but the sox are not perfect.

I know that. But I think some are overrating our offseason. Dunn without question makes us better. Everything else is a toss-up right now.

 

Really? Other than the Dunn signing I can't think of a positive thing you've said about the team?

Is Jordan4life a huge Jordan Danks fan?

Is Jordan4life a huge Jordan Danks fan?

 

I think it's about the other Jordan, used to play baseball for Chicago White Sox, and a little basketball for the Bulls

Huh?

 

Sox didn't spend billions of dollars to get to his dream $180M payroll.

 

Also, J4L, how is Santos not a product of the Sox? They are the ones who solely developed him as a pitcher.

Who the hell is this carter person

AJ and Beckham are guaranteed to be better this season just as PK is guaranteed to regress, I'm 100 percent positive on all 3 of those.

 

Yes, we have question marks just like every other team and just like we did going into 05 but we also have 0 holes on this team which really hasn't been the case in a few years now.

 

As I said earlier in the thread, I'll put our roster up against anyones minus the Phils and BoSox.

 

All I'm saying is that I don't think we've had this spectacular offseason [think Brewers and Red Sox]. The Dunn signing was fantastic. Only a few on the board are bigger Dunn fans than me. I'm not doing backflips over the Crain and Ohman signings. I'd rather have them then two scrubs, obviously. But they're not putting us over the top. I agree with you that Beckham 'should' bounce back. I have no idea what to expect from A.J. and CQ. And Rios has to be more consistent. He was quite mediocre outside of a very good May. And we have a major question mark at 3B. As far as the pitching goes, we know Peavy's situation. Which is going to put a lot more strain on the rest of the staff and a hell of a lot of pressure on Sale, assuming he starts. Edwin Jackson is just a .500 pitcher to me that will look dominant for stretches and brutal for other stretches. Danks and Buehrle are the constants. And Gavin needs to be more consistent.

 

Really? Other than the Dunn signing I can't think of a positive thing you've said about the team?

 

And bringing back PK. But yeah, like I said to Rowand, I'm not going crazy for signing a couple bullpen guys. Crain was very good last year but just as mediocre the year before that. That's relievers in general. And I don't like the fact that we gave him three years. But that's a separate issue. I certainly didn't start texting all my Sox buddies in big bold 'HEY, WE SIGNED WILL OHMAN TODAY!'

 

Is Jordan4life a huge Jordan Danks fan?

 

Let's put it this way, I don't want him anywhere near the major league team and our starting LF is my mortal enemy.

I think it's about the other Jordan, used to play baseball for Chicago White Sox, and a little basketball for the Bulls

i shoulda gone Green

I think people are really just looking for reasons to be upset in some of these threads, because I just don't see how anybody can't be excited about our prospects next season after the offseason we've had. The health of Peavy is a concern, but besides that, we're in good position for 2011 IMO, and this is another move that will help.

All I'm saying is that I don't think we've had this spectacular offseason [think Brewers and Red Sox]. The Dunn signing was fantastic. Only a few on the board are bigger Dunn fans than me. I'm not doing backflips over the Crain and Ohman signings. I'd rather have them then two scrubs, obviously. But they're not putting us over the top. I agree with you that Beckham 'should' bounce back. I have no idea what to expect from A.J. and CQ. And Rios has to be more consistent. He was quite mediocre outside of a very good May. And we have a major question mark at 3B. As far as the pitching goes, we know Peavy's situation. Which is going to put a lot more strain on the rest of the staff and a hell of a lot of pressure on Sale, assuming he starts. Edwin Jackson is just a .500 pitcher to me that will look dominant for stretches and brutal for other stretches. Danks and Buehrle are the constants. And Gavin needs to be more consistent.

 

 

 

And bringing back PK. But yeah, like I said to Rowand, I'm not going crazy for signing a couple bullpen guys. Crain was very good last year but just as mediocre the year before that. That's relievers in general. And I don't like the fact that we gave him three years. But that's a separate issue. I certainly didn't start texting all my Sox buddies in big bold 'HEY, WE SIGNED WILL OHMAN TODAY!'

 

 

 

Let's put it this way, I don't want him anywhere near the major league team and our starting LF is my mortal enemy.

 

 

I'm in between. I think this offseason thus far hasn't been as spectacular as some are suggesting. Like you said Dunn was a nice signing, but the others? Pretty blah to me as well. Minnesota never even offered Crain a contract. That has to say something what with their bullpen's mass exodus. Ohman, a former Cub and according to Les Grobstein, not exactly a good clubhouse guy is a loogy, a guy in his 30's who never made more than $1.6 million in a season and was just granted his first mutiyear contract, and we know Ozzie doesn't generally use veterans as loogys. And by some projections, the Sox may have 2 or 3 rookies in the bullpen. That could be scary. I am happy they brought back AJP and Paulie, although I think we will see some whining about Paulie's contract somewhere down the road, and probably justified whining, but they did what they had to do to bring him back.

 

On the other hand, compared to other AL Central teams, their offseaon seems to be a lot better. Detroit doesn't scare me. Cleveland and KC aren't going to do much, and what the heck is going on in Minnesota? I figured they would be due for a little letdown even if they brought their entire team back, but it looks like they are going to lose a lot of productive players. The Sox are sitting pretty right now.

Edited January 9, 201115 yr by Dick Allen

Well I'll say this about Ohman. That guy is very animated. The reliever version of Peavy. He'll be as pissed off as you when he's giving up homers.

Edited January 9, 201115 yr by J.Reedfan8

I'm in between. I think this offseason thus far hasn't been as spectacular as some are suggesting. Like you said Dunn was a nice signing, but the others? Pretty blah to me as well. Minnesota never even offered Crain a contract. That has to say something what with their bullpen's mass exodus. Ohman, a former Cub and according to Les Grobstein, not exactly a good clubhouse guy is a loogy, a guy in his 30's who never made more than $1.6 million in a season and was just granted his first mutiyear contract, and we know Ozzie doesn't generally use veterans as loogys. And by some projections, the Sox may have 2 or 3 rookies in the bullpen. That could be scary. I am happy they brought back AJP and Paulie, although I think we will see some whining about Paulie's contract somewhere down the road, and probably justified whining, but they did what they had to do to bring him back.

 

On the other hand, compared to other AL Central teams, their offseaon seems to be a lot better. Detroit doesn't scare me. Cleveland and KC aren't going to do much, and what the heck is going on in Minnesota? I figured they would be due for a little letdown even if they brought their entire team back, but it looks like they are going to lose a lot of productive players. The Sox are sitting pretty right now.

 

Thank you. That's all I'm saying. I'm the evil super pessimistic J4L because I'm not rating our offseason A+++++. But you do make a good point about the other teams in our division not doing a whole lot. I'll never ever sleep on the Twins. I don't care if they lose Mauer. Those fools always find a way.

Well I'll say this about Ohman. That guy is very animated. The reliever version of Peavy. He'll be as pissed off as you when he's giving up homers.

 

As long as he doesn't scream and pump his fist and stomp around after a strikeout, I'll be ok with him.

How many times does it have to be f***ing proven that signing mediocre relievers to multi-year deals rarely turns out well?

 

While mostly true, the other bit of data is how often option A works out. In a world where mediocre relievers often receive multi-year deals, finding one to accept a single year deal may drop you down another group in the talent pool. Without data for the other option, that just means the lesser of two evils sucks as well.