ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 For as bad as Well's contract looks, the Jays actually traded him at the perfect time. Over the course of his contract so far, he has well outperformed it. For the past couple years it has been talked about as one of the worst contracts in baseball history, but it really isn't a bad contract until 2011. Most people probably didn't realize that Wells contract gave him $0.5M in 2008, $1.5M in 2009, and $12.5M in 2010. He was worth $22.6M over replacement value during those 3 years, while being paid just $14.5M. The Jays dumped him before he ever got a chance to cost them any money, and before his contract jumped into astronomic heights ($86M over the next 4 years). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share Posted January 22, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 02:36 AM) Ok, but you can't say that Werth's signing was good from baseball standpoint, but not financially, and then immediately talk about the financial standpoint of the Well's trade. Wells for Napoli and Rivera isn't really that bad of a move, but it's financially f'ed up, just like the Werth deal is also financially f'ed up. What are you talking about? I said that Rivera could outproduce Wells at about 95% less cost, and they gave up Napoli too. That would pretty clearly indicate that I think it's both a baseball and financially terrible move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 03:42 AM) What are you talking about? I said that Rivera could outproduce Wells at about 95% less cost, and they gave up Napoli too. That would pretty clearly indicate that I think it's both a baseball and financially terrible move. But the way you worded it made it seem like it was a bad move because of the contracts involved. I still don't think Wells for Napoli/Rivera is a terrible move at all, the money makes it bad. Werth to the Nats obviously isn't a bad move, but the money makes it bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share Posted January 22, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 02:46 AM) But the way you worded it made it seem like it was a bad move because of the contracts involved. I still don't think Wells for Napoli/Rivera is a terrible move at all, the money makes it bad. Werth to the Nats obviously isn't a bad move, but the money makes it bad. Over the past 4 years, Vernon Wells has put up a WAR of 1.5, 1.5, 0, and 4. That is 7 WAR over a 4 year period. Over the same time frame, Mike Napoli has put up WARs of 1.5, 2.7, 2.7, and 2.8. That's 9.7 WAR over a 4 year period, and that is in 1,000 fewer plate appearances. I think I've said enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthsideDon48 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 If I was the Angels, I would've rather keep Rivera and Napoli, and stay far far away from Wells and his horren-bad contract. I also agree with an earlier poster who said they're disappointed a Quentin-for-Napoli trade never happened. I would've been thrilled if the Sox got Napoli. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Desperate much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 This is still unbelievable to me. Alex Adshsfhfhfdf deserves GM of the year right now for not only shedding that abomination of a contract but for getting two quality players, especially Napoli, that can help then in '11. They'll save about $80 million over the next 4 years. They have flexibility now that they couldn't dream of having before. They've got 7 of the first 80 picks in this June's draft. And as I've said many times, this is supposed to be one of the better drafts in some time. So they can be real aggressive there. They're already loaded pitching wise as it is. They could make a play for Pujols or Fielder if they choose [though getting a major FA to go to Canada won't be easy]. I guess this should give Cub fans all over the world hope that one day some special-ed GM will take the Soriano contract off their hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Really? Drabek isn't included? That's insanity. I guess after they got rid of Gary Matthews Jr.'s deal the Angels decided that they hadn't blown enough money on CF's this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 10:28 AM) Really? Drabek isn't included? That's insanity. I guess after they got rid of Gary Matthews Jr.'s deal the Angels decided that they hadn't blown enough money on CF's this year. Nope. Never was. Not sure who had him in the deal. But I thought it was ridiculous the second I read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 11:34 AM) Nope. Never was. Not sure who had him in the deal. But I thought it was ridiculous the second I read it. If I was the Jays' GM and it took me Drabek to get rid of the bad years on Wells's contract, I'd probably do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 10:38 AM) If I was the Jays' GM and it took me Drabek to get rid of the bad years on Wells's contract, I'd probably do it. Not when Drabek was the centerpiece of the Halladay deal. At least I wouldn't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 10:28 AM) Really? Drabek isn't included? That's insanity. I guess after they got rid of Gary Matthews Jr.'s deal the Angels decided that they hadn't blown enough money on CF's this year. I'd have done the same thing, in a heartbeat too. Wells isn't even a top-end CF anymore, so even if he's healthy he's still probably a $5-6M overpayment per year, and a hell of a lot more than that in 2011. And that's if he's healthy. Wells is very capable of being a $4-6M per player over the remainder of the deal. Very few unproven prospects are ever worth the amount of money that's being pissed away on Wells. This is the craziest deal I've ever seen. Ever. AA deserves a statue for this, like really. He'll probably get a couple halfway decent prospects for Napoli and Rivera around the deadline too, so I doubt he even has to pay more than half their salaries. This is the biggest heist I've seen by any GM ever. This trade automatically makes the Jays the biggest winner of the offseason IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Abreu/Hunter/Wells is one of the best oufields in the league......in 2006. I'm still having a hard time believing that this trade happened, that its not an April Fools joke. Desperation at its finest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share Posted January 22, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 12:38 PM) Abreu/Hunter/Wells is one of the best oufields in the league......in 2006. I'm still having a hard time believing that this trade happened, that its not an April Fools joke. Desperation at its finest. Yes it is, but Abreu will be DHing. They are going with Wells-Bourjos-Hunter from left to right. That is significantly better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 12:42 PM) Yes it is, but Abreu will be DHing. They are going with Wells-Bourjos-Hunter from left to right. That is significantly better. That can actually be a very solid OF. Bourjos is insane. Hunter doesn't have CF range anymore, but I think he can be at least an average RF. Same with Wells in LF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 22, 2011 -> 05:02 AM) Over the past 4 years, Vernon Wells has put up a WAR of 1.5, 1.5, 0, and 4. That is 7 WAR over a 4 year period. Over the same time frame, Mike Napoli has put up WARs of 1.5, 2.7, 2.7, and 2.8. That's 9.7 WAR over a 4 year period, and that is in 1,000 fewer plate appearances. I think I've said enough. Ya right. You can never talk enough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 There's not a chance in hell that this deal ends up working out for the Angels. There's just no excuse in taking on 86 million dollars over four years for two decent players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 AA is a badass GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Ken_Rosenthal Source: #BlueJays set to trade Napoli to #Rangers for F. Francisco. No Guerrero to Texas. Napoli ABs at C, 1B, DH. #MLB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Have the Jays expressed any interest in Vlad for DH? It seems like a logical next step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Napoli's a better player than Guerrero. More versatile and not too far off offensively. Plus, he's cheaper and is arb-eligible. Not sure I like the trade for Toronto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 04:44 PM) Napoli's a better player than Guerrero. More versatile and not too far off offensively. Plus, he's cheaper and is arb-eligible. Not sure I like the trade for Toronto. Well, this move they save a little bit of salary moving Napoli for Francisco, they put another arm in their bullpen and another option as closer (which is another guy they could trade for useful parts at the deadline), but they also keep the path clear for J.P. Arencebia, who they clearly want as their starting C this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 How good is Texas' offense going to get? My goodness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 04:56 PM) How good is Texas' offense going to get? My goodness. Given the big advantage of the ballpark they play in, their offense wasn't actually that spectacular last year. They put up a .757 team OPS. The White Sox were right behind at a .752 OPS. They've replaced Guerrero's production with Beltre's (although you know how I feel about that), but they were still looking at having a couple of weak positions there, at 1b and at C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Don't like the flipping of Napoli. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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