tonyho7476 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 10:05 AM) He's had some ridiculously talented teams while he's been here. Which ones? '06? We couldn't get over the Tigers...they still played well. The pitching was lacking, if memory serves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Let's be honest here, this is an extraordinarily difficult team to manage because of the awful performances of three of the four highest paid players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 10:14 AM) Let's be honest here, this is an extraordinarily difficult team to manage because of the awful performances of three of the four highest paid players. That is the biggest indictment of all against Ozzie, not for him. He has all of these really high priced players on the team, who have been awful, and he keeps playing them. That is a reflection on his job performance personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 10:14 AM) Let's be honest here, this is an extraordinarily difficult team to manage because of the awful performances of three of the four highest paid players. totally agreed. which is why i was beating my head against the wall when ozzie continued to run Dunn and Rios out there everyday over the last month when it was painfully obvious that they were not breaking out of their slumps, even when kw went public and said "play the best players, not the highest paid players" the roster has sucked, and the management of the roster has been equally as bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 03:21 PM) totally agreed. which is why i was beating my head against the wall when ozzie continued to run Dunn and Rios out there everyday over the last month when it was painfully obvious that they were not breaking out of their slumps, even when kw went public and said "play the best players, not the highest paid players" the roster has sucked, and the management of the roster has been equally as bad And why Viciedo should have been up here 3 months ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyho7476 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 10:12 AM) Honestly, tony, if you haven't seen this team fail because of Ozzie over the last half decade, then there is nothing that will change your mind. There is a reason why it seems that about 95-99% of fans want him gone. I don't believe managers in baseball play that much into the outcome of a game. I think the most important part of his job is getting everyone to believe in him and want to play for him. Ozzie does that, for the most part. There was a recent survey that showed Ozzie was the 6th most popular manager to play for. Heard it on the score. If the players don't want to play for him, like a Mike Quade type, then the guy has to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 In some people's eyes, there's just flat out never going to be a reason to fire a manager. If the team succeeds, it's because he got the most of out the players. If it fails, the talent just wasn't there to make it happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (tonyho7476 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 10:23 AM) I don't believe managers in baseball play that much into the outcome of a game. I think the most important part of his job is getting everyone to believe in him and want to play for him. Ozzie does that, for the most part. There was a recent survey that showed Ozzie was the 6th most popular manager to play for. Heard it on the score. If the players don't want to play for him, like a Mike Quade type, then the guy has to go. I'd like to see this survey, because Ozzie was listed as second to last a few seasons ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 10:19 AM) That is the biggest indictment of all against Ozzie, not for him. He has all of these really high priced players on the team, who have been awful, and he keeps playing them. That is a reflection on his job performance personally. If they were on the last years of their contracts, I might agree with you. These guys are going to be around for a while, how do you justify not playing them the rest of this year and opening 2012 with them as starters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 04:24 PM) If they were on the last years of their contracts, I might agree with you. These guys are going to be around for a while, how do you justify not playing them the rest of this year and opening 2012 with them as starters? When Walker says he can't help the players make the necessary adjustments DURING the year, that means to me that you might as well give up on Dunn and Rios for this season and just hope for the best in 2012 (that being they both retire this offseason). I don't think as many people on here would have been begging the Sox to bench Dunn if Josh Kroeger was our best option in the minors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 10:24 AM) If they were on the last years of their contracts, I might agree with you. These guys are going to be around for a while, how do you justify not playing them the rest of this year and opening 2012 with them as starters? I've said it earlier, and I will say it again. If you think you are in it, you dont' play them. If you are out of it, you play them for next years sake. Also, players performance does fall on the managers back, like it or not. People get fired because their employees dont' to their jobs. Dunn and Rios have not done their jobs. Peavy at least has the injury excuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 04:24 PM) I'd like to see this survey, because Ozzie was listed as second to last a few seasons ago. It's true that he was 6th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 10:24 AM) If they were on the last years of their contracts, I might agree with you. These guys are going to be around for a while, how do you justify not playing them the rest of this year and opening 2012 with them as starters? i think their stats are justification enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyho7476 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 10:24 AM) I'd like to see this survey, because Ozzie was listed as second to last a few seasons ago. Joe Madden was 1. Ozzie is Number 6 Most Popular Manager Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Marty, do you think Ozzie's "punishment" of Rios' continued lack of hustle and paying attention was severe enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 09:24 AM) guillen continues to look like the little pain in the ass cousin that nobody pays attention too so he sets the cat on fire. He's the Snail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 10:29 AM) i think their stats are justification enough Their stats say they don't even deserve a spot on the roster. Why are they even on the bench? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 03:29 PM) i think their stats are justification enough And that Dunn should have had probably 50 less at bats against LHP this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 At this point I think both need to go. I don't trust Ozzie to keep his personal gripes separate from his managing and I don't trust Kenny to select another manager or develop a farm system, or trade for players that don't suck. We should probably clean house, or let Hahn take over and hire his own manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 10:24 AM) I'd like to see this survey, because Ozzie was listed as second to last a few seasons ago. 6th place, just behind Dusty Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 He should be on the hot seat. Swisher 1 and 2, Tony Pena, the Jackson trade, Teahen, 2 albatross contracts (3 if you add Peavy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 10:31 AM) Their stats say they don't even deserve a spot on the roster. Why are they even on the bench? like i said, the blame is distributed equally for me, i am certainly not absolving kw in the same way you do ozzie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 10:30 AM) Marty, do you think Ozzie's "punishment" of Rios' continued lack of hustle and paying attention was severe enough? Rios has hustled since his benching, he just hasn't been very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 09:29 AM) I've compared Ozzie to Ditka so many times. It's almost a perfect comparison. If only OG was more like Phil Jackson than Ditka... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 08:31 AM) Their stats say they don't even deserve a spot on the roster. Why are they even on the bench? Their contracts say they do deserve a spot on the bench at least . Not going to eat all that money for all those years. But the same reasoning doesn't say they must continue to get AB's this season while they are very bad and there are better options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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