fathom Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 07:00 PM) Decent talent = decent record nothing more. Wouldn't you want to see if a new manager and hitting coach could get decent talent to overachieve in order to get better than decent results? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 02:00 PM) Decent talent = decent record nothing more. Decent talent which gets worse when it gets here =? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 You know... I dislike KW's trading ability as much as the next guy, but I'm really tired of the "sacrificial lamb" routine by him. Ozzie deserves to be canned much sooner than Kenny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 02:02 PM) Wouldn't you want to see if a new manager and hitting coach could get decent talent to overachieve in order to get better than decent results? I think Guillen should go. Bigger problem though is paying steak prices for hamburger talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 01:55 PM) The terrible in game manager thing puzzles me. Every manager in baseball is a terrible in-game manager because there are so many decisions you can second guess. This year, Gardy is a bum. Is he a terrible manager? Our new manager is gonna get roasted on here next year as well. Batting Rios fourth is his fight with KW continuing. That is obvious. They both are gonna be shown the door. I'd love to see everybody's opinion on here. I wonder how many still like Ozzie. In a poll I would say. Keep Ozzie?- Yes. Keep KW - No. Gardy and the Twins org routinely get the most out of less talented players every year. We seem to actually get less out of more talent routinely. With the lineup KW assembled at the beginning of the season would you have predicted we would be below average offensively? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 02:08 PM) Gardy and the Twins org routinely get the most out of less talented players every year. We seem to actually get less out of more talent routinely. With the lineup KW assembled at the beginning of the season would you have predicted we would be below average offensively? That has gone 180 in the last couple of seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 02:08 PM) Gardy and the Twins org routinely get the most out of less talented players every year. We seem to actually get less out of more talent routinely. With the lineup KW assembled at the beginning of the season would you have predicted we would be below average offensively? That to me is the key right there. Not that KW hasn't made some bad trades (and also a lot of good ones), and that he hasn't done a poor job with minor league development (though not as bad as sometimes characterized)... But decided whether the manager or GM or at fault for a season, look at how the table was set before it started. Ozzie was given a team that by most accounts was a low 90's win team, with a strong chance to win the division. And his team stayed relatively healthy, until the recent spate of injuries to AJ and TCQ. And he got an unexpected decent starter out of Humber. Knowing all that, this team should be a lot better than it is. That, to me, says the Manager (and coaching staff) carries more of the responsibility than the GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 03:14 PM) That has gone 180 in the last couple of seasons. And with Cuddyer and Kubel departing, and their bullpen a shambles...they're not looking good in the nearterm unless the M&M's can produce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 08:15 PM) And with Cuddyer and Kubel departing, and their bullpen a shambles...they're not looking good in the nearterm unless the M&M's can produce. The M&M's themselves are going to be an issue I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 03:21 PM) The M&M's themselves are going to be an issue I think Well clearly...that was sorta implied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 02:14 PM) That has gone 180 in the last couple of seasons. It wont last long. The twins org is much better at player development than the teams in our division, they will come up with something. With that said, alot of their advantage went bye bye when they moved outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 03:23 PM) It wont last long. The twins org is much better at player development than the teams in our division, they will come up with something. With that said, alot of their advantage went bye bye when they moved outside. Seriously...what does their player development record look like the past 2-3 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 02:25 PM) Seriously...what does their player development record look like the past 2-3 years? Their call ups this year have been awful for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 03:29 PM) Their call ups this year have been awful for the most part. The last guy they called up who I can remember making a big difference for them was Span, that was in 2008, and he's put up a .677 OPS between 2010 and 2011. Valencia had a hot start last year, slightly better than Brent Morel with the bat this year. Duensing I guess came up in 2009, but most of their starters have been around for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Listening to the Cowley interview now. I really don't understand how Cowley has a job. He should be fired from his performance today alone. Cannot comprehend a writer so vehemently investing in one side of the story. He's going to bash KW until the end because of personal feelings. Unreal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 02:25 PM) Seriously...what does their player development record look like the past 2-3 years? #10 farm system with 5 top 100 players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 02:06 PM) I think Guillen should go. Bigger problem though is paying steak prices for hamburger talent. Good point, but KW thought he ordered the steak. He ended up with some 80/20 greasy hamburger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (MurcieOne @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 02:43 PM) Listening to the Cowley interview now. I really don't understand how Cowley has a job. He should be fired from his performance today alone. Cannot comprehend a writer so vehemently investing in one side of the story. He's going to bash KW until the end because of personal feelings. Unreal. You might as well find some random fan and bring him on as your baseball expert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 02:44 PM) #10 farm system with 5 top 100 players. Who have done what in the majors to help their awful team this season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 02:49 PM) Who have done what in the majors to help their awful team this season? yes they are bad this season, but I think 6 division titles in the last decade speaks volumes more than their injury-filled failure this year. They get more out of less talent then we do year after year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 03:07 PM) yes they are bad this season, but I think 6 division titles in the last decade speaks volumes more than their injury-filled failure this year. They get more out of less talent then we do year after year. What about this year though? That's then, this is now. They had some injuries and had absolutely nobody they could bring up to help them at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 03:12 PM) What about this year though? That's then, this is now. They had some injuries and had absolutely nobody they could bring up to help them at all. Well then Gardy sucks. There you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 07:59 PM) Go back and read the thread I started a month ago about the 10 games that got away. That was a good post. I challenge you to do it for any team in baseball. You'll find way more than 10 you can blame on the skipper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (MurcieOne @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 02:43 PM) Listening to the Cowley interview now. I really don't understand how Cowley has a job. He should be fired from his performance today alone. Cannot comprehend a writer so vehemently investing in one side of the story. He's going to bash KW until the end because of personal feelings. Unreal. If the Sun-Times doesn't work out, there is always the New York Times or Fox News! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 02:44 PM) You might as well find some random fan and bring him on as your baseball expert. I'd say that you could get a random Soxtalker, but then you could still end up with Cowardly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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