Milkman delivers Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 11:16 AM) It's Friedman at this point (with AA closing in). What he's been able to accomplish in that division defies any scientific logic. They draft better than any team in baseball, they've made multiple outstanding trades (Zobrist, Joyce, both Garza trades, Kazmir), they put a STRICT emphasis on defense (just check their UZR figures the last four years) and baserunning. Just an amazing organization and one that I truly envy. I know you love AA, but he should be nowhere close at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 11:56 AM) I know you love AA, but he should be nowhere close at this point. He's halfway there, and many would argue he's accomplished the more difficult half. To clean up the mess Riccardi left for him in less than two years time, amazing. Imagine a GM coming to the White Sox and somehow ridding the team of even two of Dunn, Rios and Peavy - while at the same time bringing in cheap/team-controlled talent (Lawrie, Escobar, Rasmus) and upgrading a below average farm? Again, in less than two years. We'd be ready to erect a statue for the guy (I'd be ready to suck him off). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 12:10 PM) He's halfway there, and many would argue he's accomplished the more difficult half. To clean up the mess Riccardi left for him in less than two years time, amazing. Imagine a GM coming to the White Sox and somehow ridding the team of even two of Dunn, Rios and Peavy - while at the same time bringing in cheap/team-controlled talent (Lawrie, Escobar, Rasmus) and upgrading a below average farm? Again, in less than two years. We'd be ready to erect a statue for the guy (I'd be ready to suck him off). You're just a little too over the top. The guy's team has yet to even finish in 3rd place. Yes, he's made some nice moves. But his team still has to do something of significance, which I wouldn't call "halfway there". It's going to take a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 12:15 PM) You're just a little too over the top. The guy's team has yet to even finish in 3rd place. Yes, he's made some nice moves. But his team still has to do something of significance, which I wouldn't call "halfway there". It's going to take a lot. Yes, ultimately you have to win games (divisions). And that's going to be a major hurdle to clear in the AL east. They overachieved with 85 wins last year. They'll end up about .500 this year. They're not that far away if they stay on course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 12:10 PM) He's halfway there, and many would argue he's accomplished the more difficult half. To clean up the mess Riccardi left for him in less than two years time, amazing. Imagine a GM coming to the White Sox and somehow ridding the team of even two of Dunn, Rios and Peavy - while at the same time bringing in cheap/team-controlled talent (Lawrie, Escobar, Rasmus) and upgrading a below average farm? Again, in less than two years. We'd be ready to erect a statue for the guy (I'd be ready to suck him off). Getting to mediocre is the easy part. Actually winnings something is the hard part. Tampa has gotten somewhere, Toronto hasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 12:29 PM) Getting to mediocre is the easy part. Actually winnings something is the hard part. Tampa has gotten somewhere, Toronto hasn't. There's not a thing that's been "easy" about the job he's done thus far. Sox fans are about to learn the hard way what it's like when your team is crippled with multiple albatross contracts and no farm to speak of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 12:42 PM) There's not a thing that's been "easy" about the job he's done thus far. Sox fans are about to learn the hard way what it's like when your team is crippled with multiple albatross contracts and no farm to speak of. And yet their records are still pretty much identical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 12:43 PM) And yet their records are still pretty much identical. That's the ultimate straw man and you know it. Sox are the Houston Astros in the east. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 12:55 PM) That's the ultimate straw man and you know it. Sox are the Houston Astros in the east. Wins don't matter, it is all about your spot on the top prospects list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 03:23 PM) Wins don't matter, it is all about your spot on the top prospects list. Last I checked, Lawrie, Escobar, Rasmus, Morrow and Romero, the last being a better version of John Danks, who's locked up at $5.2 to 7.75 million through 2015 and a club option for 2016, aren't prospects anymore. And if the Phillies of the last three years haven't illustrated how important it is to have a productive system (Hallday, Lee, Oswalt, Pence), nothing will. Edited September 23, 2011 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 03:34 PM) Last I checked, Lawrie, Escobar, Rasmus, Morrow and Romero, the last being a better version of John Danks, who's locked up at $5.2 to 7.75 million through 2015 and a club option for 2016, aren't prospects anymore. And if the Phillies of the last three years haven't illustrated how important it is to have a productive system (Hallday, Lee, Oswalt, Pence), nothing will. that and a massive payroll, which Toronto will never have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattZakrowski Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 11:13 AM) nancygay Nancy Gay by MDGonzales @ RT: @darrenrovell: At a reported $47 million, it cost Sony more to make "Moneyball" than it cost the A's to field their entire 2002 roster. This is why what Beane did with those teams was impressive, even if the rest of baseball caught up in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (MattZakrowski @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 05:10 PM) This is why what Beane did with those teams was impressive, even if the rest of baseball caught up in time. The jerk answer is "Have a ton of really good pitching and needles". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 04:01 PM) that and a massive payroll, which Toronto will never have. You would've said the same thing about Philly in '06. They came out of nowhere. Toronto is capable of something similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 12:42 PM) There's not a thing that's been "easy" about the job he's done thus far. Sox fans are about to learn the hard way what it's like when your team is crippled with multiple albatross contracts and no farm to speak of. Two bad contracts won't kill this team if we have the right manager. Peavy has a buyout after this year right? Dunn or rios could bounce back to somewhere near their career average, but they won't need to if some of the young sox continue to develop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 QUOTE (MAX @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 06:33 PM) Two bad contracts won't kill this team if we have the right manager. Peavy has a buyout after this year right? Dunn or rios could bounce back to somewhere near their career average, but they won't need to if some of the young sox continue to develop. Ummm...no. The White Sox are going to be lucky to get to 72-75 wins if the same thing happens with next year's Rios/Dunn. For sure, they will tear apart the team at the All-Star Break this time around and start getting ready for 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 05:15 PM) You would've said the same thing about Philly in '06. They came out of nowhere. Toronto is capable of something similar. Not unless Toronto is getting a new stadium and fan base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 08:08 PM) Not unless Toronto is getting a new stadium and fan base. They did pack that place non stop pre strike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 06:37 PM) Ummm...no. The White Sox are going to be lucky to get to 72-75 wins if the same thing happens with next year's Rios/Dunn. For sure, they will tear apart the team at the All-Star Break this time around and start getting ready for 2013. Its hard to argue with your opinion when its based on . . . "Um no"? The sox did better than 72 wins this year, and a lot more went wrong than those two. Those two are likely to make some regression toward their career averages on top of it. If they are underperforming and they get benched in mid june, this team will have a shot at the division. I think they may have had 86 or so wins if that had happened this year. Edited September 24, 2011 by MAX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 07:31 PM) They did pack that place non stop pre strike Which is before most of this board was born. Back then the Pirates were good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 24, 2011 Author Share Posted September 24, 2011 QUOTE (MAX @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 06:39 PM) Its hard to argue with your opinion when its based on . . . "Um no"? The sox did better than 72 wins this year, and a lot more went wrong than those two. Those two are likely to make some regression toward their career averages on top of it. If they are underperforming and they get benched in mid june, this team will have a shot at the division. I think they may have had 86 or so wins if that had happened this year. I'll just add the caveat that I sincerely doubt Quentin, Danks, Thornton, Floyd and Buehrle will all be back. It's hard to expect a repeat performance out of DeAza or Lillibridge. Viciedo should be much better...but it won't make a huge difference if he's basically just replacing Quentin. Other than that...the only area where we could/should have significant improvement is if Morel keeps up his late-season power binge. It's really hard to count on much of anything from Beckham at this point in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Back to the movie haha It's at 94% on Rotten Tomatoes right now. I swear the only people I've heard not liking the movie are baseball writers, which means it's probably a really good movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 This is why what Beane did with those teams was impressive, even if the rest of baseball caught up in time. I think Oakland's accomplishments are artificially inflated by the division they competed in. It was a 4-team division to start with. The one "big market" team in their division is even more of a second fiddle in their city than the Mets or Sox. For most of the 2000's, Texas didn't even know what a pitcher was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Sep 25, 2011 -> 07:51 AM) I think Oakland's accomplishments are artificially inflated by the division they competed in. It was a 4-team division to start with. The one "big market" team in their division is even more of a second fiddle in their city than the Mets or Sox. For most of the 2000's, Texas didn't even know what a pitcher was. I think it probably helped to have Tim Hudson/Mark Mulder/Barry Zito in their rotation. I definitely give them credit for what they did...it was incredibly innovative and has certainly ushered in a new era of analysis in baseball. But I think a lot of their success is misallocated to their methods and not to the fact that they had three of the premier SP's in the league during their entire run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 25, 2011 Author Share Posted September 25, 2011 Surprised nobody has commented on this movie yet. With how bad the White Sox are, I guess everyone's watching football but you'd think at least one person here would have seen it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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