iamshack Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 11:24 PM) When did I say they had to spend every dime? Give me evidence. I've only stated they claim they spend every dime. When I pointed out for years that really wasn't accurate, you argued with me about that. You say $10 million isn't a lot of money, that would indicate they should be able to acquire a pretty good player since they only have to pay him for half a year. Perhaps a $20 million a year guy. Since you are so tuned into White Sox finances, how much are they looking to recoup from last season? There is a second part to that statement. You are saying that if the White Sox claim they do not have much money with which to use to acquire a player making a significant salary, they are necessarily lying if they are not spending every penny. I'm pointing out that their statement is not necessarily false just because it is possible in some scenario that they could afford the player. Dick, let me ask you this...when all is said and done, how much money do you think the entire operating expenses of the White Sox is for any given year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 11:27 PM) Im taken pretty seriously actually. More than you think. I'm sorry Baron, I didn't mean to not take you seriously. But I didn't actually mean you, as in yourself. I meant "you" as in a person in general. Sorry for not making that more clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 11:30 PM) I'm sorry Baron, I didn't mean to not take you seriously. But I didn't actually mean you, as in yourself. I meant "you" as in a person in general. Sorry for not making that more clear. Yeah nice little swipe there. Reeks of desperation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 11:33 PM) Yeah nice little swipe there. Reeks of desperation. Well your nose isn't very good either then. But you still haven't addressed my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 11:34 PM) Well your nose isn't very good either then. But you still haven't addressed my point. I did consider all the information and read this entire thread since it was created. I always do. You just think I dont. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 11:36 PM) I did consider all the information and read this entire thread since it was created. I always do. You just think I dont. Just because you said you do doesn't make it so. Your posts in this thread certainly would lead one to think otherwise. Actually, I take that back. Your posts in this thread actually haven't pointed out anything of substance. You've just been piggybacking DA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Goodnight, Fellas! It has been fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 11:38 PM) Just because you said you do doesn't make it so. Your posts in this thread certainly would lead one to think otherwise. Actually, I take that back. Your posts in this thread actually haven't pointed out anything of substance. You've just been piggybacking DA. Its true because I actually did. I wasnt the one that started insulting people by saying they needed to be talked down to like children. I asked you a simple question when we started this debate. You have no proof to back up your point. All you've been trying to do is point out that there is a rare chance my poor is wrong( I actually have proof some which is nice). Thats where this has gone so far. As for what you've been saying to DA. It looks like you've been making up his point to try and make your argument. Im not a fan of that. Edited June 22, 2012 by Baron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Yep Im off...night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 If they can make a $25M offer to Soler they have more money than any of us think. Doesn't matter what "budget" they are pulling it from. Sorry if this was already brought up as I skipped over a lot of the bickering that ensued after this post, but the $25M offer was over several years. The upfront amount likely would have been less than the cost of taking on a contract like Youkilis'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:37 PM) Do either of you two have children? If your kids ask you for a new XBox do you feel obliged to tell them that you have the money because you could possibly take a loan out or put it on your credit card or pay for it with cash intended to fix the garbage disposal? Just because it is possible that you could scrape up the money in a pinch does not mean you are lying to them when you say "I don't have the money for a new XBox right now." Awful analogy. A better one would be a parent having the money to send kid to college, but making him decide to either go to college and pay for it himself or not go at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 08:39 AM) Awful analogy. A better one would be a parent having the money to send kid to college, but making him decide to either go to college and pay for it himself or not go at all. Because going to a baseball game is a great career move that can pay you back 5x in terms of total lifetime income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 07:51 AM) Because going to a baseball game is a great career move that can pay you back 5x in terms of total lifetime income. As usual, no idea what it is you are saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:17 PM) I just don't understand how you could be a CPA and not see the different budgets that are in play here. I am sure each area has a budget and they try to stay within those budgets. Signing Soler would probably come out of a different budget than the one intended for making in-season acquisitions. I know our Organization gets creative with money, and will pull from one area to another and vice versa, but I am not sure what you would have them do. Signing Soler is probably based on payrolls in the future and not necessarily money they have right now from which to draw against. How could you possibly not get your mind around that as an accountant? We also know that the Board does authorize one time expenditures for specific players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 09:03 AM) As usual, no idea what it is you are saying. You just treated an entertainment option (baseball, XBox, etc) the same as something that can be key to the development of a person's career/life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 07:36 AM) Sorry if this was already brought up as I skipped over a lot of the bickering that ensued after this post, but the $25M offer was over several years. The upfront amount likely would have been less than the cost of taking on a contract like Youkilis'. This is a really good point. The signing bonus is a fraction of the total deal, which was likely to run over 4 to 6 years, judging by how the Sox have structured these deals in the past, and what the market looks like now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 08:15 AM) You just treated an entertainment option (baseball, XBox, etc) the same as something that can be key to the development of a person's career/life. Also, a baseball game and four years of college are equivalent in cost and time commitment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 08:17 AM) Also, a baseball game and four years of college are equivalent in cost and time commitment. Though it might feel like it with a couple of kids... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I want the 20 minutes of my life back I just spent reading the past few pages. I'm not even sure where that argument began or what it was about. Something about xBoxes or something? I did pick up on the sniping about the purported Soler bid. To me, there was plenty of evidence showing that the Sox had interest and were involved in the bidding for the guy. Apparently the Sox offered (or were prepared to offer) around $25 million. Why argue that? We (on this board) have been talking about Soler since before the season started. But, just because the Sox may have offered the money doesn't mean they have $25 million to spend to make the team better today. When KW talks to the press and says he has no money to spend on players, that's fine. We all know that more often than not, he uses a lot of misdirection. So, who knows if he's actually willing to spend some money. I would hazard to guess that he will spend the money if there's a deal that could truly make the team better and help get them to the post season. But to blame attendance (or lack thereof) is ridiculous. The Sox have one of the highest average ticket price is baseball, and they are in a city with two freaking teams. And the other team has a cult following...well, more acurately the stadium in which that team plays has a cult following (look at me, I'm at Wrigley!). The attendance at The Cell will always be disappointing until the team that plays there can win consistently. A team that was expected to play at or just below .500 performing slightly better will not cause 10,000 extra people to show up each day. A team making it to the playoffs on a consistent basis and winning the occasional playoff series will increase attendance. Like I (and others) have said, going to a Sox game is a big commitment financially, especially if you're taking a family. I would love to go to a half dozen games a season, but I like cash in my pocket more. I like being able to sit my ass on my couch with my kids and a 6-pack of Blue Moon just fine. Sorry, Kenny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 08:16 AM) This is a really good point. The signing bonus is a fraction of the total deal, which was likely to run over 4 to 6 years, judging by how the Sox have structured these deals in the past, and what the market looks like now. That was pointed out. The point remains, they were going to have to give him some kind of a bonus, and have to pay him some sort of salary this season. I don't think they will pick up anyone they have to pay a lot of money the rest of the year, but unless they fall apart by the deadline, I think they will upgrade where they can, and would probably do it today if they found the right deal. And if the right player comes along who makes a lot of money, if the deal is right, they will make it as long as there's a legit chance to win. If the Mets were giving David Wright away today for nothing but salary relief, there's no question in my mind KW and JR would jump on it, although I actually agree with Shaq that pitching, IMO starting pitcher, is even more important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 08:30 AM) I want the 20 minutes of my life back I just spent reading the past few pages. I'm not even sure where that argument began or what it was about. Something about xBoxes or something? I did pick up on the sniping about the purported Soler bid. To me, there was plenty of evidence showing that the Sox had interest and were involved in the bidding for the guy. Apparently the Sox offered (or were prepared to offer) around $25 million. Why argue that? We (on this board) have been talking about Soler since before the season started. But, just because the Sox may have offered the money doesn't mean they have $25 million to spend to make the team better today. When KW talks to the press and says he has no money to spend on players, that's fine. We all know that more often than not, he uses a lot of misdirection. So, who knows if he's actually willing to spend some money. I would hazard to guess that he will spend the money if there's a deal that could truly make the team better and help get them to the post season. But to blame attendance (or lack thereof) is ridiculous. The Sox have one of the highest average ticket price is baseball, and they are in a city with two freaking teams. And the other team has a cult following...well, more acurately the stadium in which that team plays has a cult following (look at me, I'm at Wrigley!). The attendance at The Cell will always be disappointing until the team that plays there can win consistently. A team that was expected to play at or just below .500 performing slightly better will not cause 10,000 extra people to show up each day. A team making it to the playoffs on a consistent basis and winning the occasional playoff series will increase attendance. Like I (and others) have said, going to a Sox game is a big commitment financially, especially if you're taking a family. I would love to go to a half dozen games a season, but I like cash in my pocket more. I like being able to sit my ass on my couch with my kids and a 6-pack of Blue Moon just fine. Sorry, Kenny. No one suggested they had $25 million available. But if the Soler report is true, they have something available. The funny thing is the guy arguing against us when we said that also pointed out when it was mentioned Forbes said the Sox made $10 million last year, that $10 million was just a sliver of money to the Sox, its a pretty insignificant amount. Since he seems to know so much, and is far more knowlegeble, that means the Sox should have more than enough money to bring in someone this season if they so choose. $10 million is nothing to them. I totally agree with you regarding attendance. People are too focused on attendance and not revenue. The Sox obviously feel their ticket prices are maximizing their revenue or they would do something about them. Brooks has declined. Edited June 22, 2012 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 So, when is this thread going to be locked/deleted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 09:13 AM) So, when is this thread going to be locked/deleted? why should it be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 08:41 AM) No one suggested they had $25 million available. But if the Soler report is true, they have something available. The funny thing is the guy arguing against us when we said that also pointed out when it was mentioned Forbes said the Sox made $10 million last year, that $10 million was just a sliver of money to the Sox, its a pretty insignificant amount. Since he seems to know so much, and is far more knowlegeble, that means the Sox should have more than enough money to bring in someone this season if they so choose. $10 million is nothing to them. I totally agree with you regarding attendance. People are too focused on attendance and not revenue. The Sox obviously feel their ticket prices are maximizing their revenue or they would do something about them. Brooks has declined. No, I agree that there was no indication that $25 million was available, but if they even pursue a guy (whether or not an actual offer was made), that's a clear indication that there is SOME money available. And not to necessarily validate the xBox comparison, but if there was a guy available (say David Wright), and the team looking to trade him is looking for salary refielf and a prospect, the Sox would find a way to do it. Just as a parent might find a way to purchase something for their kid for a birthday or whatever. I know it's a very weak comparison, but it's like me having to "find" $300 to spend and the Sox having to "find" several million dollars. If you want/need something bad enough, you'll find the cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 08:28 AM) No, I agree that there was no indication that $25 million was available, but if they even pursue a guy (whether or not an actual offer was made), that's a clear indication that there is SOME money available. And not to necessarily validate the xBox comparison, but if there was a guy available (say David Wright), and the team looking to trade him is looking for salary refielf and a prospect, the Sox would find a way to do it. Just as a parent might find a way to purchase something for their kid for a birthday or whatever. I know it's a very weak comparison, but it's like me having to "find" $300 to spend and the Sox having to "find" several million dollars. If you want/need something bad enough, you'll find the cash. And also that the parent would not be being disingenuous to their kid if they said they didn't have the money, when it is actually possible that they could scrape it up. That's the key here. We, as fans, don't have a particularly great picture of the team's finances, and so we're not in a particularly great position to understand what moves can be made or which moves cannot. The Organization has no obligation to explain in incredible detail what their revenue sources or funding sources are. And so when asked about whether any upgrades are going to be made to the roster, what is Kenny to do? He is being completely honest when he says that their ability to improve the roster will be directly related to the revenue at the gate. The fact that it is indeed possible for them to scrape together some funds elsewhere is in no way inconsistent with his statement. To look at it otherwise is to take an incredibly naive and unsophisticated view of an incredibly complex situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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