elrockinMT Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 16, 2012 -> 11:23 PM) So we can expect 190 innings from Danks next year. If we do that's a good thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 16, 2012 -> 03:58 PM) I wouldn't say great. Totally. I can't speak for Marty but in my opinion a few mph of fastball is the difference between 3.70 ERA JD and 6+ ERA JD. I fear that he's going to sit high 80s and won't have a prayer. He's not crafty nor does he possess pitches with movement. I feel like best case scenario is we get the typical John Danks who can't get through the order the third time and walks 3-5 guys. We win if the offense scores at least 4-6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Dec 16, 2012 -> 05:24 PM) At this point no one is wrong so let's assume it's a 50/50 split OK ;) But, the reports on his progress have been good. I tend to believe he will come back and pitch very well. Who would have thought Jake P was going to rebound like he did? I don't think the surgery Danks had was as bad as Jake's. This is all true, but I'll believe Danks recovery when I see it (velocity mostly) and not before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 16, 2012 -> 08:23 PM) So we can expect 190 innings from Danks next year. I dunno. Likely not, but probably not because he's still injured. If ptatc says his injury is likely to heal well, I trust his opinion because he's been right in the past, and not because he pulled stuff out of his butt. Because he knows the difference between various shoulder operations and injury sites. And, if I recall the way ptatc has phrased things in the past, he's usually said that things are unlikely, not impossible. So you may still be right, but it, like the rest of baseball, is an odds game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) The last guy to have the surgery that John Danks did was Chris Young. (I remember reading that in an article around the time that Danks' surgery was performed) Before Young's injury that caused the surgery, he threw low 90s. He came back from surgery throwing low to mid 80s. I'm with Marty on this one. Most pitchers who have shoulder surgery at any point in their careers are done within 2-4 years after their shoulder procedure. Look at Brandon Webb. He won a Cy Young award in 2008 or so, he can't find a job now because his stuff is so bad. He's relegated to tryouts for teams just to get a minor league contract. Peavy is not the norm; he is a one in a small number of success stories. Danks' best chance is to try to reinvent himself as Mark Buehrle. I don't think he has the command to do that. Edited December 17, 2012 by Elgin Slim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Dec 16, 2012 -> 05:56 PM) The last guy to have the surgery that John Danks did was Chris Young. (I remember reading that in an article around the time that Danks' surgery was performed) Before Young's injury that caused the surgery, he threw low 90s. He came back from surgery throwing low to mid 80s. I'm with Marty on this one. Most pitchers who have shoulder surgery at any point in their careers are done within 2-4 years after their shoulder procedure. Look at Brandon Webb. He won a Cy Young award in 2008 or so, he can't find a job now because his stuff is so bad. He's relegated to tryouts for teams just to get a minor league contract. Peavy is not the norm; he is a one in a small number of success stories. Danks' best chance is to try to reinvent himself as Mark Buehrle. I don't think he has the command to do that. This is overly pessimistic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (ptatc @ Aug 7, 2012 -> 07:29 AM) This is pretty much what I was talking about earlier when they were so vague as to what was going on. The rotator cuff and biceps debridement are the "cleaning up" of normal wear and tear on a pitcher. The capsular repair is the key. He should recover just fine depending on how loose the capsule was. Hopefully, the surgeon was able to determine how tight it needed to be. With no real muscle damage his strength will be fine and the rehab will be quick. Either way he will be throwing again by Spring Training. It will be a 3-6 months rehab protocol. QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 4, 2012 -> 08:27 AM) There is really no reason he shouldn't be ready. The tissues involved are all static structures like ACL reconstruction or UCL replacement in the elbow. These are all very predictable in the recovery time. Moreso, than when you are dealing with active dynamic structures such as muscle or tendon repairs. The usual recovery time is 3-6 months depending on the extent of the repair. His wasn't too bad considering they have him throwing 3 months after the surgery. Edited December 17, 2012 by Jake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 16, 2012 -> 05:23 PM) So we can expect 190 innings from Danks next year. This is possible but I doubt it. He will suffer from missing so much time last year. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me but I know he missed most of the year. With this type of surgery it depends on accurrate the surgeon was and if the medical staff needed to stretch out the capsule. As I stated earlier it's a big advantage not having the primary problem being the rotator cuff or bicep tendon. No surgery is a sure thing but this one is a "lesser of the evils." You are being too pessimistic about his chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Really getting the feeling that this is the team heading into Arizona... Which is not very exciting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 There's still 2+ months before ST...sit back, relax, and strap it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickofypres Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Has there been any kind of rumours as of late or? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 QUOTE (whitesox901 @ Dec 17, 2012 -> 02:47 AM) Has there been any kind of rumours as of late or? Not that I know, but there is a piece from Merkin, on the official website saying how Hahn will have to get creative to catch the Tigers. No news here but I guess he's hinting trades will come. LINK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 17, 2012 Author Share Posted December 17, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 16, 2012 -> 04:04 PM) I have no evidence only opinion. I do question conventional wisdom here on Soxtalk. So you finally admitting you were trolling at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 With Dickey gone, Gavin has to be about the best arm left on the trading block, right? Rangers and Angels -- especially the Angels -- need pitching badly. Unless they want to gamble on Lohse, I would have to think there's a good chance for a Sox trade soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 17, 2012 -> 07:41 AM) So you finally admitting you were trolling at least. No. Another case of Soxtalk Group Think. Dissenting opinions aren't welcomed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 17, 2012 Author Share Posted December 17, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 17, 2012 -> 09:21 AM) No. Another case of Soxtalk Group Think. Dissenting opinions aren't welcomed. So you say you have no evidence of anything, no history, no similarities, yet you expect your opinion to be just as valued as a medical professional who has experience in this exact area. Then if people don't give your opinion the same weight, it is Soxtalk Group Think, all in capital letters. Read that sentence again, and as yourself why people think you troll. Dissenting opinions are accepted. Well thought-out and reasoned opinions are much more weighted. Just "because I think so", just isn't good enough. But you know that, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 17, 2012 -> 09:25 AM) So you say you have no evidence of anything, no history, no similarities, yet you expect your opinion to be just as valued as a medical professional who has experience in this exact area. Then if people don't give your opinion the same weight, it is Soxtalk Group Think, all in capital letters. Read that sentence again, and as yourself why people think you troll. Marty is a guy who posts here. He doesn't insult people. Why is that we treat him like this villain when he's simply a guy who posts here? If he thinks there is group think here, and it blinds us to a few things, and wants to point it out, it's his right. No one needs to take offense to that. o i forgot he's cowley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 17, 2012 Author Share Posted December 17, 2012 QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Dec 17, 2012 -> 09:47 AM) Marty is a guy who posts here. He doesn't insult people. Why is that we treat him like this villain when he's simply a guy who posts here? If he thinks there is group think here, and it blinds us to a few things, and wants to point it out, it's his right. No one needs to take offense to that. o i forgot he's cowley I think you conveniently missed that part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Dec 17, 2012 -> 09:47 AM) Marty is a guy who posts here. He doesn't insult people. Why is that we treat him like this villain when he's simply a guy who posts here? If he thinks there is group think here, and it blinds us to a few things, and wants to point it out, it's his right. No one needs to take offense to that. o i forgot he's cowley Because you guys keep quoting him and it ruins the ignore feature!! Seriously, hows the Upton trade coming these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 17, 2012 -> 09:49 AM) I think you conveniently missed that part. He gets under people's skin but he doesn't use out-and-out insults. There's a difference there, because personalities clash but it's not like he's on the warpath going after people personally. Also to be debating this indicates how unbelievably bored I am .yikes. Edited December 17, 2012 by Jose Paniagua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 17, 2012 Author Share Posted December 17, 2012 QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Dec 17, 2012 -> 10:07 AM) He gets under people's skin but he doesn't use out-and-out insults. There's a difference there, because personalities clash but it's not like he's on the warpath going after people personally. Also to be debating this indicates how unbelievably bored I am .yikes. General insults of an entire group just because they don't agree with you, aren't any better than individual insults in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 17, 2012 -> 10:18 AM) General insults of an entire group just because they don't agree with you, aren't any better than individual insults in my book. When was the last time I insulted anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 17, 2012 Author Share Posted December 17, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 17, 2012 -> 10:49 AM) When was the last time I insulted anyone? So "Soxtalk Group Think" was meant to be a complement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 17, 2012 -> 09:50 AM) Because you guys keep quoting him and it ruins the ignore feature!! Seriously, hows the Upton trade coming these days? If it happens, we'll get confirmation from you 15 minutes after the fact I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 17, 2012 -> 10:57 AM) So "Soxtalk Group Think" was meant to be a complement? Did you not accuse me of trolling before that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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