White Sox draft day one thread

[The Ultimate Champion]

I checked the draft tracker & started to read about this kid & was like Goddamnit Motherf***er we went & drafted Drew O'Neill again, but now reading the other stuff, it appears we didn't, and we maybe got something of an extreme value pick here ala Sale falling. Very excited about this pick now, more than Anderson, but I like Anderson not being another K machine so that's good too. It's nice to get a hitter who isn't a K machine & a pitcher who is. Regardless of whether either of these players ever step foot on a Major League field, at least when you go with ceiling you are giving yourself some time to personally evaluate someone you think might be a real difference maker, and if you act quickly enough, should you decide the risk isn't worth it, you can turn around and deal that kind of prospect in a package for a proven player. Seems smarter all the way. And I'm putting this all on Kenny Williams the personal scout (unless these kids don't turn out, then he's had nothing to do with it).

[The Ultimate Champion]

Well, heres to hoping Danish can stay healthy long enough to become a RP for the Sox in 3-4 years.

If he can stay healthy (always the biggest question when dealing with a high school pitcher) then even if he does end up a reliever, this kid doesn't sound like a run of the mill righty specialist or 1IP right handed setup man, he would seem to be potentially dynamite, like the type of pitcher you bring in whenever you need a key big out in a big situation, and 6 years of that kind of player has a ton of value.

 

The point of the draft is to extract the most value period, and whether you develop & keep the prospects or trade them, that value is supposed to translate on the MLB field. As a 2nd rounder, a pure reliever with average MLB relief stuff would be a massive overdraft and a very poor value pick (the type of pick the Sox have made many tiems over in the draft), but the mechanics here make this a pretty unique pick & push the ceiling much higher, making it likelier that this piece ends up benefiting future Sox teams in some capacity. But again, should he stay healthy.

[ShandyMan]

Well, heres to hoping Danish can stay healthy long enough to become a RP for the Sox in 3-4 years.

 

Or possibly become one of our starters?

 

We got a kid with good potential, no reason to not give him a chance.

 

He probably is a better choice than Wahl/Ziomek.

[Dick Allen]

Or possibly become one of our starters?

 

We got a kid with good potential, no reason to not give him a chance.

 

He probably is a better choice than Wahl/Ziomek.

94 innings with a zero ERA is unheard of. Hopefully they can sign him and he can develop further. One thing I read once is HS kids who throw 95 usually are throwing 88 in their early 20s. But I don't know how you can not be at least intrigued with this kid.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Or possibly become one of our starters?

 

We got a kid with good potential, no reason to not give him a chance.

 

He probably is a better choice than Wahl/Ziomek.

 

Well obviously you give him a chance to prove that he can't start, but everything about the way he throws screams reliever eventually.

[ShandyMan]

94 innings with a zero ERA is unheard of. Hopefully they can sign him and he can develop further. One thing I read once is HS kids who throw 95 usually are throwing 88 in their early 20s. But I don't know how you can not be at least intrigued with this kid.

 

Could that have anything to do with the fact college coaches absolutely run their arms into the ground?

[caulfield12]

Justin Verlander had been a high school prospect (Goochland High School in Virginia), throwing as high as 94 mph, before illness (strep throat) limited his performance as a senior and scared some scouts off.

[witesoxfan]

Well obviously you give him a chance to prove that he can't start, but everything about the way he throws screams reliever eventually.

 

Why, because he throws almost sidearm? I can't think of any current effective major league starter who throws side arm

[ptatc]

Well obviously you give him a chance to prove that he can't start, but everything about the way he throws screams reliever eventually.

The way he throws screams shoulder injury. Anterior capsule, subscapularis or labrum most likely. Not a fan of guys who don't have the good trunk flexion and follow through.

Edited June 7, 2013 by ptatc

[DirtySox]

The way he throws screams shoulder injury. Anterior capsule, subscapularis or labrum most likely. Not a fan of guys who don't have the good trunk flexion and follow through.

 

The are reports he is very willing to change arm slot and accompanying mechanics if so desired by the drafting team. Maybe the Sox plan to clean it up.

[caulfield12]

The way he throws screams shoulder injury. Anterior capsule, subscapularis or labrum most likely. Not a fan of guys who don't have the good trunk flexion and follow through.

 

 

Maybe they are going to rush him up to the big leagues as a reliever....seems when you take a high school kid these days, you're almost betting on him going through TJ surgery at some point in the minors or first six years in the majors.

 

However, as we all know from the John Danks discussion/s, shoulder injuries aren't easy to come back from at 100%.

 

Still, if the White Sox are really going with TBA philosophy, they have to be considering him as a starter FIRST, because you don't draft relievers generally before the 5th/6th rounds.

 

There have been some exceptions with the White Sox, Royce Ring, Poreda (they wanted him to be a starter), Addison Reed was 3rd round, I think Josh Fogg was picked in the first five rounds (yep, looked it up, 3rd round) as a closer out of the Univ. of Florida and then converted to starter, and Sale started out in the bullpen his first two seasons.

Edited June 7, 2013 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

The are reports he is very willing to change arm slot and accompanying mechanics if so desired by the drafting team. Maybe the Sox plan to clean it up.

 

 

The question is how much velocity or movement might be affected should they go that route...

 

For example, Jose Contreras, that arm slot/angle always made a huge difference between dominant and ineffective.

 

Then you have the control/command issues and changing "muscle memory."

 

I think Greg has brought this up a few times in reference to Nathan Jones and the way he slings the ball...but it doesn't seem the White Sox have ever really tried to change his mechanics (correct me if I'm wrong, minor league experts).

Edited June 7, 2013 by caulfield12

[Jake]

You don't turn 18 year olds into relievers, unless we promised him a Sale-esque shot at the big leagues. The kid has two plus pitches and some scouts like his change and curve as well. He could be an excellent starter.

 

You have to wonder if there is more velocity to get in a conventional motion, not to mention just from growing up.

[ptatc]

The are reports he is very willing to change arm slot and accompanying mechanics if so desired by the drafting team. Maybe the Sox plan to clean it up.

That would be a big risk. I'm sure a lot of his effectiveness is similar to Peavy, those mechanics create a very different movement on his pitches. If you "straighten him out" there is no guarantee he will be effective.

[ptatc]

Maybe they are going to rush him up to the big leagues as a reliever....seems when you take a high school kid these days, you're almost betting on him going through TJ surgery at some point in the minors or first six years in the majors.

 

However, as we all know from the John Danks discussion/s, shoulder injuries aren't easy to come back from at 100%.

 

Still, if the White Sox are really going with TBA philosophy, they have to be considering him as a starter FIRST, because you don't draft relievers generally before the 5th/6th rounds.

 

There have been some exceptions with the White Sox, Royce Ring, Poreda (they wanted him to be a starter), Addison Reed was 3rd round, I think Josh Fogg was picked in the first five rounds (yep, looked it up, 3rd round) as a closer out of the Univ. of Florida and then converted to starter, and Sale started out in the bullpen his first two seasons.

I'm sure they are thinking long term starter. It could be a Sale or Buehrle scenario where he comes up as a reliever but the plan is to make him a starter. Those mechanics just scare me. Not to say that he can't pitch with those but it leaves alot of room for doubt.

[ptatc]

The question is how much velocity or movement might be affected should they go that route...

 

For example, Jose Contreras, that arm slot/angle always made a huge difference between dominant and ineffective.

 

Then you have the control/command issues and changing "muscle memory."

 

I think Greg has brought this up a few times in reference to Nathan Jones and the way he slings the ball...but it doesn't seem the White Sox have ever really tried to change his mechanics (correct me if I'm wrong, minor league experts).

The White sox are very good about letting pitchers throw the way they want to and focus more on the grip and quality of pitches. Cooper has often said that it's the results they look at. They only thing I've really ever heard him discuss with mechanics much was balance but this too was more related to being able to throw with command rather than actual mechanics.

 

I like this approach. As a person who has studied throwing mechanics and worked with pitchers, people are far too concerned with minute differences in mechanics.

[TomPickle]

I'm sure they are thinking long term starter. It could be a Sale or Buehrle scenario where he comes up as a reliever but the plan is to make him a starter. Those mechanics just scare me. Not to say that he can't pitch with those but it leaves alot of room for doubt.

Those guys were handled a lot differently though. Buehrle had 30 starts in the minors before he came up and Sale didn't even have 30 IP before he was called up. I don't see how they could take this kid and not at least try him out as a starter first.

[ptatc]

Those guys were handled a lot differently though. Buehrle had 30 starts in the minors before he came up and Sale didn't even have 30 IP before he was called up. I don't see how they could take this kid and not at least try him out as a starter first.

I would as well. However, if there is a contract clause similar to Sale's (I would doubt that as a HS is different than a college pitcher) it could change. The key factor will be if he develops something other than the FB/slider mix, although some MLB pitchers can get away with that as well especially with the deception in his delivery.

[Jake]

The White sox are very good about letting pitchers throw the way they want to and focus more on the grip and quality of pitches. Cooper has often said that it's the results they look at. They only thing I've really ever heard him discuss with mechanics much was balance but this too was more related to being able to throw with command rather than actual mechanics.

 

I like this approach. As a person who has studied throwing mechanics and worked with pitchers, people are far too concerned with minute differences in mechanics.

 

Agree completely. Fairly large mental adjustments can be easy to implement while those minute changes in mechanics can be a big hindrance. Likewise, sometimes an approach change can unintentionally change mechanics for the better.

[sammy esposito]

Agree completely. Fairly large mental adjustments can be easy to implement while those minute changes in mechanics can be a big hindrance. Likewise, sometimes an approach change can unintentionally change mechanics for the better.

What I saw was how fast he delivered a 93 mph fastball. this could prove usefull as a reliever as a deterrent for would be base stealers.

Edited June 8, 2013 by sammy esposito

[Cerbaho-WG]

The way he throws screams shoulder injury. Anterior capsule, subscapularis or labrum most likely. Not a fan of guys who don't have the good trunk flexion and follow through.

 

I was hoping you'd chime in on this. As usual, solid stuff. Knowing very little about biomechanics, his delivery and specifically his lack of use of his lower body would seem to add a lot of stress to his shoulder to drive the arm forward.

[beautox]

Late to the party but I really like the direction the sox went with this draft. The sox have some interesting prospects up the middle right now but anderson tops them all and Danish excites me a lot, quirky delivery but the sox seem to let them roll with their mechanics until it becomes an issue, developing a change will be huge for this kid, that and maybe a cut fast ball.

[TaylorStSox]

The question is how much velocity or movement might be affected should they go that route...

 

For example, Jose Contreras, that arm slot/angle always made a huge difference between dominant and ineffective.

 

Then you have the control/command issues and changing "muscle memory."

 

I think Greg has brought this up a few times in reference to Nathan Jones and the way he slings the ball...but it doesn't seem the White Sox have ever really tried to change his mechanics (correct me if I'm wrong, minor league experts).

One of the things that I always loved about Contreras was that he changed his arm slot constantly. When he was right, it made him incredible. It wasn't just the stuff. Hitters couldn't lock into a release point because the arm slot was all over the place. I seriously loved that guy. He and Pedro are possibly my 2 favorite pitchers of all time.

 

Overall, I really think mechanics are incredibly overrated. The study employs a lot of people, but ultimately, IMO, it simply comes down to certain people having a body that can withstand the punishment of pitching. You refine mechanics to maximize talent and to have a repeatable delivery, but I don't think you can save a career.

[Soxfest]

•ESPN's Keith Law broke down the first ten rounds of each of the American League clubs. You should check out the entire piece for all the details (Insider subscription required).

•Law praised the White Sox for prioritizing upside in its first-round selection of shortstop Tim Anderson, though he was less high on the club's drafting of pitcher Tyler Danish (who Law says "has the worst arm action I've seen in this draft class") in the number 55 slot. Likewise, Law was underwhelmed by third-round center fielder Jacob May but felt that the Sox' fourth-round chioce, Andrew Mitchell, could be a steal if he can develop an effective third pitch.

 

Per MLBRUMORS

[Y2Jimmy0]

Not sure if this is the thread for this but it sounds like Danish may be signing on Friday

 

 

Tyler Danish ⚾ ‏@danish_Tyler7 48m

Well flying out to Chicago on Friday ✈