harfman77 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Feb 19, 2014 -> 09:24 PM) If Gatewood is there, holy s*** take him. Taking him is easy, signing him isn't. If you grab Gatewood in the second, you are going to grab a guy in the first that will sign for a decent amount under slot to free up money for Gatewood. I too am all for taking Gatewood if he is there, but I think it is moot as he wont make it that far. With the Tulo comp, someone will grab him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Feb 20, 2014 -> 08:37 AM) Taking him is easy, signing him isn't. If you grab Gatewood in the second, you are going to grab a guy in the first that will sign for a decent amount under slot to free up money for Gatewood. I too am all for taking Gatewood if he is there, but I think it is moot as he wont make it that far. With the Tulo comp, someone will grab him. Well, you are either grabbing a very underslot player in the 1st or not spendnig anything on about picks 3-6, so yeah, underslot at 3. I could see some team doing this that already has a pretty good minor league system in place. Maybe the Blue Jays, Royals, Rays, Red Sox, even the Astros or the Marlins. I can't see the Sox doing this. They need to build the depth of the system. I would honestly respect the decision if they were to do that, but I just don't expect it to happen even if the possibility exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I'll gladly take Toussaint if he's still there. I might be insanely high on him and bias, and he can easily flame out I.E. Nevin Griffith, but those are the type of upside talents you have to take and hope they pan out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 20, 2014 -> 08:53 AM) Well, you are either grabbing a very underslot player in the 1st or not spendnig anything on about picks 3-6, so yeah, underslot at 3. I could see some team doing this that already has a pretty good minor league system in place. Maybe the Blue Jays, Royals, Rays, Red Sox, even the Astros or the Marlins. I can't see the Sox doing this. They need to build the depth of the system. I would honestly respect the decision if they were to do that, but I just don't expect it to happen even if the possibility exists. It really depends on what the Sox evaluations of the top players are. If they have two in the top tier and eight in the second, you find the guy in that second tier that makes the most economical sense. If you have three guys in the top tier, you take the top tier guy and take a slot level guy in the second round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Feb 20, 2014 -> 08:59 AM) I'll gladly take Toussaint if he's still there. I might be insanely high on him and bias, and he can easily flame out I.E. Nevin Griffith, but those are the type of upside talents you have to take and hope they pan out. Hes another guy like Gatewood, some have him as a top 10 guy, others as a back end of the round guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Feb 20, 2014 -> 11:33 AM) Hes another guy like Gatewood, some have him as a top 10 guy, others as a back end of the round guy. We have an entire HS/college season to go before the draft. These things will sort themselves out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 20, 2014 -> 12:08 PM) We have an entire HS/college season to go before the draft. These things will sort themselves out. Yep. Will be fun to sit back and watch it unfold. Going to watch Hoffman's start against Virginia this Friday. Derek Fisher will be worth seeing too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 20, 2014 -> 12:08 PM) We have an entire HS/college season to go before the draft. These things will sort themselves out. Yes, it just demonstrates the volatility of HS talent. And even at draft time, there are guys that are projected as 2-3 round talent taken in the first round because some teams scouts like a guy more than the media guys that do the mocks. College guys less so, Rodon will be a top 3 pick, Hoffman will be in the top 5, and Turner will go top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royoung Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 This is an insert from an article titled "Five biggest draft storylines" by Christopher Crawford of ESPN. He highlights my fear that Rodon and Hoffman go 1 and 2, then we are left with a tough decision at #3. 2. Who's No. 3? He may not be the lock that Rodon is at the top spot, but East Carolina right-hander Jeff Hoffman is the clear-cut No. 2 talent in the class to start the year, with a fastball that touches 97 mph and a curveball that could already be a big league offering. Hoffman is the most realistic candidate to challenge Rodon for the first pick, though Miami is likely to consider several options with the No. 2, including hard-throwing right-hander Tyler Kolek from Shepherd (Texas) HS. The third spot, which belongs to the Chicago White Sox, is very much up for debate. Most believe that catcher Alex Jackson of Rancho Bernando HS (San Diego) starts the year in that position, but the lack of a knockout tool could see Jackson slide towards the back half of the top 10. Jacob Gatewood of Clovis (Calif.) HS is the type of player the White Sox have coveted in the past, an athletic player with plus-plus power from the right side, though the concern that he may not have more than a fringe-average hit tool concerns teams. Chicago has very little pitching depth in its system, so arms such as Hartford left-hander Sean Newcomb or UNLV right-hander Erick Fedde could move their way into consideration with big campaigns; if Hoffman were to "fall" to pick No. 3, the White Sox would likely jump for joy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feeky Magee Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 My hope is that either Trea Turner excels enough to make it a true top 3, or else if there is a big drop-off and then a lot of roughly equal players, that the Sox take an under-slot guy and spread it throughout the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakes Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 19, 2014 -> 04:54 PM) That's insane that Law considers Gatewood a top 5er but McDaniel has him in the sixth TIER. Law just locks into a love/hate relationship with too many guys. It's the biggest problem I have with him as an evaluator. He is just too stubborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 QUOTE (southside hitman @ Feb 20, 2014 -> 08:34 PM) This is an insert from an article titled "Five biggest draft storylines" by Christopher Crawford of ESPN. He highlights my fear that Rodon and Hoffman go 1 and 2, then we are left with a tough decision at #3. 2. Who's No. 3? He may not be the lock that Rodon is at the top spot, but East Carolina right-hander Jeff Hoffman is the clear-cut No. 2 talent in the class to start the year, with a fastball that touches 97 mph and a curveball that could already be a big league offering. Hoffman is the most realistic candidate to challenge Rodon for the first pick, though Miami is likely to consider several options with the No. 2, including hard-throwing right-hander Tyler Kolek from Shepherd (Texas) HS. The third spot, which belongs to the Chicago White Sox, is very much up for debate. Most believe that catcher Alex Jackson of Rancho Bernando HS (San Diego) starts the year in that position, but the lack of a knockout tool could see Jackson slide towards the back half of the top 10. Jacob Gatewood of Clovis (Calif.) HS is the type of player the White Sox have coveted in the past, an athletic player with plus-plus power from the right side, though the concern that he may not have more than a fringe-average hit tool concerns teams. Chicago has very little pitching depth in its system, so arms such as Hartford left-hander Sean Newcomb or UNLV right-hander Erick Fedde could move their way into consideration with big campaigns; if Hoffman were to "fall" to pick No. 3, the White Sox would likely jump for joy. Is this true or not? I think it is and it's scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 21, 2014 -> 07:46 AM) Is this true or not? I think it is and it's scary. I think little is the wrong term. They have adequate depth, but I do not believe they have enough high upside talent nor do I believe they have enough pitching. And, while I think that's always going to be true, I think they have a need for it more than most teams. It's not scary though. It's at a suitable level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 21, 2014 -> 08:23 AM) I think little is the wrong term. They have adequate depth, but I do not believe they have enough high upside talent nor do I believe they have enough pitching. And, while I think that's always going to be true, I think they have a need for it more than most teams. It's not scary though. It's at a suitable level. I agree. I think they have better pitching depth than some other systems, but lack a starter or two who look like #1 or #2 guys in a rotation. They have a few #3-#4, a few more maybe back end guys, and a handful of raw, high-talent, high-bust potential guys. IMO, the starting P's in the system to watch (and who I think are likely to stay starters) that are semi-close right now are Beck, Danish, Snodgress. Bassitt is 50/50 to keep starting but is likely a major leaguer in some form. Andrew Mitchell is intriguing but I'm not convinced he will be a starter yet. Jaye is worth keeping an eye on but I'm not sold on him. Montas and Olacio are likely relievers but some see a starter, but they aren't close the majors - both do have a ton of raw talent though. Hasnen is in a similar vein. Surkamp, if he finds his old self, could be a #4 guy. Braulio Ortiz is my sleeper, I think he's got major league potential. This leaves off Johnson of course, who is slated for the rotation. Rienzo is also no longer technically a "prospect", but is certainly part of the depth picture. There's some good depth there, just no elite pitching talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Also, in the reliever world, in addition to some of those starters who may become relievers (Bassitt, Mitchell, Montas, Olacio, etc.), you've got Webb and Petricka on the verge, and I think Goldberg (who will start for now) will be a major league reliever and probably pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 The elite upside pitcher will be in the system in June. That number three pick in the draft is the future #2 to Chris Sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 21, 2014 -> 07:46 AM) Is this true or not? I think it is and it's scary. It really is tough to say at this point, there is some depth, probably 10 or so guys that could end up in a major league rotation at some point. The question on most of them is how good they can be when they get there. Chris Beck is a guy that I really like, was projected as a top 10 pick, then slid to the second round. He has the upside of a #2, and the floor of a #5. Tyler Danish is another guy with a similar profile, his upside could be that of a #1, his floor is probably a high leverage reliever. There are a number of arms in the system that have a chance to be pretty good ML pitchers, but it all depends on how they develop. Andrew Mitchell, Braulio Ortiz, Jefferson Olacio, and Myles Jaye are examples of guys that we will learn a lot about what their future is this year. What the system does lack is the guys like Shelby Miller, Dylan Bundy, Taijuan Walker, elite prospects that have a floor of a mid-rotation guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royoung Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 21, 2014 -> 10:01 AM) The elite upside pitcher will be in the system in June. That number three pick in the draft is the future #2 to Chris Sale. Ha. No pressure kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 QUOTE (southside hitman @ Feb 21, 2014 -> 11:04 AM) Ha. No pressure kid. When you are drafted #3 overall, there is high level of expectations that come with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royoung Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 21, 2014 -> 11:42 AM) When you are drafted #3 overall, there is high level of expectations that come with it. No doubt. I hope the spring differentiates some pitchers from the pack to join to Rodon and Hoffman at the top of the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 keithlaw @keithlaw 35m ECU RHP Jeff Hoffman was 94-96 in the first, got the last out on a 90 mph change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 21, 2014 -> 02:49 PM) keithlaw @keithlaw 35m ECU RHP Jeff Hoffman was 94-96 in the first, got the last out on a 90 mph change Any further update on how he's pitching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Feb 21, 2014 -> 02:59 PM) Any further update on how he's pitching? Nothing else from law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Clint Longenecker @Clint_BA 29m Thru 2 Jeff Hoffman 94- 97. Good feel for 87-90 CH against LH heavy lineup. 2 SO. One base runner allowed. HR by Brandon Downes He's given up 2 runs in 3 innings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 21, 2014 -> 11:42 AM) When you are drafted #3 overall, there is high level of expectations that come with it. Last 5 #3 picks: 2013 - Jonathan Gray 2012 - Mike Zunino 2011 - Trevor Bauer 2010 - Manny Machado 2009 - Donovan Tate So.... Two appear to be busts, one is elite, and the last two are too early to tell though Zunino is moving toward the bust column, but still has a lot of time to recover. After Rodon and Hoffman, there aren't any guys that you can look at and know a guy is a MLB'er. If the Sox miss out on those two, I am all for them saving money in the first to spread out on guys throughout the draft that slide, like they did with Michaleski last year. Of course another guy could have a great year and vault himself into the conversation, but at this point, I dont see that can't miss guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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