Managing a Rebuilding Team Wouldn't Scare Ventura

[Balta1701]

Not that it matters, but I don't think Viciedo is a good fit at all for 1B. It takes away his throwing arm, which is one of his biggest tools.

 

Just so it's said, last year he was nearly an average fielder in LF at age 23. He was -3.0 runs in UZR. But like everyone else on the team, his fielding has collapsed this year. He's already at -3.6 runs in UZR this year and his full season pace is -12 runs. He's been about a win worse in LF this year than last year.

 

The guy from last year I can take out in LF. The guy from this year's squad, well he needs to start hitting sometime. With a little bit more experience, the guy from 2012 could have become an average fielder out there, but like everyone else on the team he's taken a huge step backwards.

[fathom]

Just so it's said, last year he was nearly an average fielder in LF at age 23. He was -3.0 runs in UZR. But like everyone else on the team, his fielding has collapsed this year. He's already at -3.6 runs in UZR this year and his full season pace is -12 runs. He's been about a win worse in LF this year than last year.

 

The guy from last year I can take out in LF. The guy from this year's squad, well he needs to start hitting sometime. With a little bit more experience, the guy from 2012 could have become an average fielder out there, but like everyone else on the team he's taken a huge step backwards.

 

You know my thoughts on Viciedo...at this time, he's looking like a future platoon player. He needs a big 2nd half to cement his full-time starting spot going forward, in my opinion.

[Balta1701]

You know my thoughts on Viciedo...at this time, he's looking like a future platoon player. He needs a big 2nd half to cement his full-time starting spot going forward, in my opinion.

He's still 24 so he's still early in his career, but his performance all around this year is very disappointing.

[fathom]

He's still 24 so he's still early in his career, but his performance all around this year is very disappointing.

 

Is he in Ventura's doghouse? Getting benched twice in a week is very un-Robin-like

[Balta1701]

Is he in Ventura's doghouse? Getting benched twice in a week is very un-Robin-like

I missed the game but supposedly he had quite the baserunning blunder last week in that 18-10 game or whatever it wound up being.

[kitekrazy]

I missed the game but supposedly he had quite the baserunning blunder last week in that 18-10 game or whatever it wound up being.

 

That seems to be an organization thing.

 

[Balta1701]

That seems to be an organization thing.

I'd call it a 2013 thing.

[iamshack]

He's still 24 so he's still early in his career, but his performance all around this year is very disappointing.

You guys know my thoughts on Viciedo as well...but let me ask this because I honestly haven't been watching...does he look like he is recognizing pitches and what pitchers are trying to do to him any better? Or still the same approach? I see his home runs are way down...

[Dick Allen]

I'd call it a 2013 thing.

Funny thing is that happened about a week after Gonzo tweeted a photo of Daryl Boston holding a pre game baserunning seminar for the team.

[Balta1701]

Funny thing is that happened about a week after Gonzo tweeted a photo of Daryl Boston holding a pre game baserunning seminar for the team.

Remember the one single 45 minute session they ran on basic fielding drills mid-May? My response to that was "they ought to be doing this every single day".

 

They still ought to be doing that every single day. This team ought to be exhausted from fielding drills at this point as much as they need them.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I'd call it a 2013 thing.

For sure. This year so much has gone wrong you start to wonder about stupid stuff like the odd number year jinx, the unlucky #13, and other twilight zone crap, anything other than facing the reality that the Sox suck just to be able to cope with it.

Edited July 5, 2013 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Jake]

I know you're looking at the Sox competing next year and surely I'd love for that to happen but chances are it won't. Just too many holes to fill and question marks. After the trade deadline chances are the only thing the Sox will have going for them is starting pitching. Everything else will a big IF and 3 year deals to 30YO+ players shouldn't be considered unless the Sox pick up some sure things at the trade deadline ,which likely isn't happening.

 

I think the White Sox will/should plan to definitely compete in 2015. This means you start adding pieces next year, but not all of them. Next year is one of those "if everything goes right" years. You fill a hole or two with veterans that you think are worth building around, keep some decent players from this year (like every player that hasn't yet reached free agency). Then you can roll the dice with guys in a couple spots - unless there is a total disaster in the second half, I think Phegley is a shoo-in as a guy you let develop into next season. Maybe, if we're lucky, somebody like Trayce might look ready for the outfield. We'll have to see. Might get somebody in trade that deserves a shot to develop.

[Balta1701]

I think the White Sox will/should plan to definitely compete in 2015. This means you start adding pieces next year, but not all of them. Next year is one of those "if everything goes right" years. You fill a hole or two with veterans that you think are worth building around, keep some decent players from this year (like every player that hasn't yet reached free agency). Then you can roll the dice with guys in a couple spots - unless there is a total disaster in the second half, I think Phegley is a shoo-in as a guy you let develop into next season. Maybe, if we're lucky, somebody like Trayce might look ready for the outfield. We'll have to see. Might get somebody in trade that deserves a shot to develop.

Whether the Sox should target 2014 or 2015 depends entirely on the kinds of offers they get for Rios, Alexei, and Peavy (and to a lesser extent, De Aza, Dunn, etc.)

[Jake]

I missed the game but supposedly he had quite the baserunning blunder last week in that 18-10 game or whatever it wound up being.

 

Yeah, he was benched the next game. RV talked about it. The next game he went out and had a good day at the plate and a made a couple diving catches in the next game. My guess is that this a planned day off because he's been looking a hair better lately.

[LittleHurt05]

For sure. This year so much has gone wrong you start to wonder about stupid stuff like the odd number year jinx, the unlucky #13, and other twilight zone crap, anything other than facing the reality that the Sox suck just to be able to cope with it.

 

I blame Theo

[caulfield12]

 

 

 

 

Setting a tone

 

Sveum: A.

 

Ventura: D.

 

With his trademark stubble and steel worker's eyes, Sveum sometimes looks like the dirtiest guy in the dugout. Ventura cleaned up well as a player and still does, which isn't great when his team is going down in flames and he seems headed to a cookout on his cul-de-sac.

 

There was no visible sense of urgency during the 8-23 slide that took the White Sox from 24-24 and third place in the AL Central to oblivion, and that rests as much on the shoulders of the laid-back manager as the clubhouse missing its sandpaper guy, A.J. Pierzynski.

 

Ventura missed a chance to make an example of Dayan Viciedo after a game last weekend when he threw to the wrong base and twice failed to hustle running the bases. This was in the first game of the doubleheader against the Indians. Viciedo didn't start the second game, but when quizzed by reporters Ventura explained that it was more about matchup numbers than punishment. Nobody yells in baseball anymore, and sometimes it's a shame.

 

Sveum did a remarkable job by keeping the overmatched Cubs playing hard all last season, even after pitchers Ryan Dempster and Paul Maholm were traded away at the deadline. That will be tougher this time around, with Jeff Samardzija's comments after the Scott Feldman trade an example.

 

 

 

COMMITMENT

 

Sveum: A.

 

Ventura: D.

 

You know Sveum is in it for the long haul, working to hang on to his job until the better teams are built. Ventura turned down a one-year contract extension last winter, saying he wanted to serve out this three-year contract before deciding if this is the life he wants for the long haul.

 

"I wonder if Robin is motivated to be a part of a complete rebuild,'' an MLB executive said. "Maybe that's why he did not take the extension. They'll be bad for an extended period. He's such a winner, this might not be something he wants to endure''

 

Given the job demands that require 12-hour work days and the relentless nature of a 162-game schedule, it would be easy to understand if Ventura walked away. But White Sox GM Rick Hahn needs to resolve this question as soon as possible, not after the 2014 season. If the manager is taking a wait-and-see approach, it's easy for fans to follow that example.

 

Final grade

 

Sveum: B.

 

Ventura: C.

 

That's a high B for Sveum and a low C for Ventura, who probably didn't get too many of those while attending Oklahoma State.

 

progers@tribune.com

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...3.column?page=3

 

Judging managers mostly based on Pythagorean is SILLY and outdated, Phil. You've been doing it for more than a decade now.

[Dick Allen]

Setting a tone

 

Sveum: A.

 

Ventura: D.

 

With his trademark stubble and steel worker's eyes, Sveum sometimes looks like the dirtiest guy in the dugout. Ventura cleaned up well as a player and still does, which isn't great when his team is going down in flames and he seems headed to a cookout on his cul-de-sac.

 

There was no visible sense of urgency during the 8-23 slide that took the White Sox from 24-24 and third place in the AL Central to oblivion, and that rests as much on the shoulders of the laid-back manager as the clubhouse missing its sandpaper guy, A.J. Pierzynski.

 

Ventura missed a chance to make an example of Dayan Viciedo after a game last weekend when he threw to the wrong base and twice failed to hustle running the bases. This was in the first game of the doubleheader against the Indians. Viciedo didn't start the second game, but when quizzed by reporters Ventura explained that it was more about matchup numbers than punishment. Nobody yells in baseball anymore, and sometimes it's a shame.

 

Sveum did a remarkable job by keeping the overmatched Cubs playing hard all last season, even after pitchers Ryan Dempster and Paul Maholm were traded away at the deadline. That will be tougher this time around, with Jeff Samardzija's comments after the Scott Feldman trade an example.

 

 

 

COMMITMENT

 

Sveum: A.

 

Ventura: D.

 

You know Sveum is in it for the long haul, working to hang on to his job until the better teams are built. Ventura turned down a one-year contract extension last winter, saying he wanted to serve out this three-year contract before deciding if this is the life he wants for the long haul.

 

"I wonder if Robin is motivated to be a part of a complete rebuild,'' an MLB executive said. "Maybe that's why he did not take the extension. They'll be bad for an extended period. He's such a winner, this might not be something he wants to endure''

 

Given the job demands that require 12-hour work days and the relentless nature of a 162-game schedule, it would be easy to understand if Ventura walked away. But White Sox GM Rick Hahn needs to resolve this question as soon as possible, not after the 2014 season. If the manager is taking a wait-and-see approach, it's easy for fans to follow that example.

 

Final grade

 

Sveum: B.

 

Ventura: C.

 

That's a high B for Sveum and a low C for Ventura, who probably didn't get too many of those while attending Oklahoma State.

 

progers@tribune.com

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...3.column?page=3

 

Judging managers mostly based on Pythagorean is SILLY and outdated, Phil. You've been doing it for more than a decade now.

 

The other thing is the quote by the executive. The Sox weren't in rebuilding mode when the extension was rejected, and an extention being rejected doesn't always mean someone doesn't want to be there. No one reported the terms being offered etc. also Viciedo did sit out the game Rogers wanted him to sit out, and while Robin told the press it was match ups, how does Phil know that it isn't Robin keeping team business in house? Maybe he did bench him for his transgressions, let him know that but didn't sell him up the river to the press. And if Phil has a problem with how Robin handles Viciedo why doesn't he have a problem with how Sveum handles Castro?

Edited July 8, 2013 by Dick Allen

[witesoxfan]

Well had I known that was Phil Rogers, I would have stopped reading immediately. I just do not respect his opinion when it comes to baseball, even if he is a baseball writer.

[Jake]

No surprise when Phil Rogers is trying to s*** on the White Sox. Anyways, Robin did later admit that he benched Dayan (during that game mind you) for the blunder. Dayan talked the next day about how he had to learn a lesson from it.

[GreenSox]

Hopefully, he won't have the opportunity to be scared.

 

the White Sox need a professional, experienced manager who understands basic strategy (that befuddles Ventura), can evaluate talent and can develop talent and properly use the talent that he has. Ventura has shown none of these skills.

Edited July 8, 2013 by GreenSox

[caulfield12]

Hopefully, he won't have the opportunity to be scared.

 

the White Sox need a professional, experienced manager who understands basic strategy (that befuddles Ventura), can evaluate talent and can develop talent and properly use the talent that he has. Ventura has shown none of these skills.

 

 

Neither has Bell. Neither has Hahn, for that matter. Gillaspie was a good move, Keppinger a bad one.

 

 

http://csnchicago.nbcsports.acquia-ps.com/...ite-sox-pulse-0

And what the hell is White Sox Pulse? If there was/is one, it's dead now.

Edited July 9, 2013 by caulfield12

[GreenSox]

Neither has Bell. Neither has Hahn, for that matter. Gillaspie was a good move, Keppinger a bad one.

 

 

http://csnchicago.nbcsports.acquia-ps.com/...ite-sox-pulse-0

And what the hell is White Sox Pulse? If there was/is one, it's dead now.

Well Hahn has worked in this front office for a long time. Bell has been in baseball since forever, although I have no idea what good he's done for the Sox.

Ventura had been out of baseball for a decade. He was hired to be a compliant house-horse. Ridiculous.

 

Can't argue about the moves.

Heck, they probably should clean out the entire front office as well.

Edited July 9, 2013 by GreenSox

[caulfield12]

Braves catcher Brian McCann finally seems to be fully healthy and has been red-hot over the last two weeks, leading David O'Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution to predict that if McCann keeps it up, he'll score a free agent contact close to Yadier Molina's five-year, $75MM deal with the Cardinals. O'Brien notes that this deal will come from an AL team that will eventually transition McCann to a DH role, which is why I'd argue that McCann's eventual contract will fall at least $10-$15MM short of Molina's deal. McCann's bat doesn't carry a $15MM average annual value if it's not coming from the catcher position, plus Molina brought elite defense and a less-checkered injury history into his new contract.

Does anyone want to commit 5 years and $60-65 million to Brian McCann at his age?

 

Looks like we're back to Utley (75% chance he stays in Philly), Granderson and Morales for our FA aspirations.

 

And guess who has Kendrys Morales as their client? Mr. Scott Boras

 

 

 

After the Mariners moved in the fences at Safeco Field and acquired several veteran bats in the offseason, it has to be disheartening for the team and their fans that the M's are again struggling at the plate. The Mariners are near the bottom of the league in most offensive categories, carrying an overall team slash line of .233/.296/.371 heading into Friday's action.

 

The offensive slump can't be blamed on at least one of those newcomers. Kendrys Morales hit .253/.354/.422 with three homers though his first 96 PA, roughly on pace with the .787 OPS he posted with the Angels in 2012 though this season Morales has hit for less power and reached base more often. He's been one of the bright spots in the Seattle lineup but if the M's can't pull themselves together, Morales could be expendable come the July trade deadline.

 

Morales was acquired by the Mariners in December in a one-for-one swap with the Angels that sent Jason Vargas to Anaheim. It was a logical move for both teams as the Angels needed space at DH and the Mariners had an excess of starting pitching given the number of young arms in their system. Morales was a short-term investment for the M's since he is only under contract through this season, earning $5.25MM in his last year of arbitration eligibility. That's a very good price for a solid bat, and if Morales is a deadline pickup, a trade suitor would owe the switch-hitter just $1.75MM over the last two months of the season.

 

Here are some of the teams that could be a trade fit with the Mariners...

 

* Rockies. While Morales has played some first base since his return from the leg injury that cost him almost the entirety of the 2010-11 seasons, he is best suited for a DH role. An NL team might not want to risk playing Morales in the field every day, but if the surprising Rockies stay in the NL West race, they could acquire Morales and only use him against right-handed starters. Colorado has the right-handed hitting Jordan Pacheco to use against southpaws as Morales only has a career .714 OPS against lefty pitching. Todd Helton (currently on the DL) is also still in the mix at first for the Rockies but the club can't expect much from their former franchise player given his recent injury history.

 

* Giants. Brandon Belt's struggles have left the Giants thin at first base, but I see Morales as very much a longshot fit for their needs.

 

* Tigers. If Victor Martinez still hasn't returned to form by midseason, Detroit might look to improve their designated hitter spot. Scott Boras, Morales' agent, could be a factor in such a trade given his good relationship with Tigers owner Mike Ilitch.

 

* Rays. Tampa Bay is another offensively-challenged team that has Wil Myers waiting in the wings for a call-up to play right field and Luke Scott on a minor league rehab assignment. Morales would be an upgrade over Scott at DH and, since Morales' remaining salary would be in the $1.75MM range, he'd fit into the Rays' limited payroll.

 

* Orioles. Nolan Reimold has been getting the majority of the DH at-bats with Wilson Betemit out until June. The O's could be in the market for an upgrade but it's doubtful given that a healthy Betemit hits right-handers well enough to make Morales redundant.

 

It could be argued that the Mariners should not only keep Morales but also pursue an extension with him, given that the 29-year-old is one of the team's few productive bats. Scott Boras clients, however, generally go to free agency and you wonder if Morales would want to remain at pitcher-friendly Safeco Field over the long term. Besides, the M's could always deal Morales at the deadline and then pursue him again as a free agent in the offseason. Trading Morales in June or July would net the Mariners a decent prospect or two as they may already be looking to reload for 2014.

Edited July 9, 2013 by caulfield12

[Jake]

There are free agents other than Utley, McCann, Granderson, and Morales. Granderson is not even the best FA OF in the market.

[caulfield12]

There are free agents other than Utley, McCann, Granderson, and Morales. Granderson is not even the best FA OF in the market.

 

 

Yes, I know, Choo is probably the best, and he's not going to think of giving any "hometown discount" unless we signed 2-3 other Korean players (which wouldn't be a terrible idea, since they actually play the game in a fundamentally sound way and can bunt and execute).