witesoxfan Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 18, 2013 -> 11:07 AM) Ozzie was the manager in 2006. That team legitimately ran out of gas and there was also an unexpectedly hot Detroit team to compete with, it wasn't Ozzie's fault. In 2007 they were legitimately bad, there were injuries, a laughably bad bullpen, so Ozzie wasn't blamed for it. By 2011 we'd seen a few consecutive years of Ozzie's antics where he was sandbagging it or otherwise undermining the team, to the point where he outright quit on the team. That's the difference. I don't even think anyone's under the illusion that Robin is a great manager (how could he be?) but he doesn't have much to work with either. A+++ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 18, 2013 Author Share Posted July 18, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 18, 2013 -> 07:13 AM) It's impossible to know exactly what would have happened in 2010 had the Sox signed Thome instead of the Twins, but it's safe to say that he was the deciding factor between the Sox and Twins that season. This statement is somewhat contradicting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 18, 2013 Author Share Posted July 18, 2013 How did this thread get railroaded into an Ozzie vs. Ventura thread or even mentioning of Ozzie. "He gawn". Get over it. If Dusty Baker were managing the team with these results-I can't imagine people wanting him for next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 18, 2013 -> 01:35 PM) No greg, we know. You just will never admit it. Years ago, the Sox would have been accused of simply choking. I think it's all subjective. Last year's team was in the hunt all year, then boom. Loss after loss the final few weeks and season ova. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jul 18, 2013 -> 02:30 PM) This statement is somewhat contradicting. It kind of runs into itself a little, but it's possible that Thome could have gotten hurt or been mediocre or whoever/whatever and the Twins could have ended up signing or trading for someone else. That much is impossible to know. Because he signed with the Twins, the Sox stuck with Kotsay and the Twins won by 4 games. Many of the games between the two of them saw Jim Thome as the main difference between them, especially his walk-off homer against Thornton which sucked big time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 18, 2013 -> 02:45 PM) Years ago, the Sox would have been accused of simply choking. I think it's all subjective. Last year's team was in the hunt all year, then boom. Loss after loss the final few weeks and season ova. They choked, but considering we had no expectations going into the year and that they really had been put through the ringer all year, it's safe to say they were worn out. You could see it watching the games. Choking and being fatigured are not mutually exclusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 18, 2013 -> 03:50 PM) It kind of runs into itself a little, but it's possible that Thome could have gotten hurt or been mediocre or whoever/whatever and the Twins could have ended up signing or trading for someone else. That much is impossible to know. Because he signed with the Twins, the Sox stuck with Kotsay and the Twins won by 4 games. Many of the games between the two of them saw Jim Thome as the main difference between them, especially his walk-off homer against Thornton which sucked big time. I'm almost positive Ozzie would've played him 140 games if he was still with the team, so he'd have played full-time and gotten tired and put up one of the typical .245 average, mid 800s OPS type seasons and not that 1.039 he put up in Minnesota when they only used him like 2/3 of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 18, 2013 -> 03:55 PM) I'm almost positive Ozzie would've played him 140 games if he was still with the team, so he'd have played full-time and gotten tired and put up one of the typical .245 average, mid 800s OPS type seasons and not that 1.039 he put up in Minnesota when they only used him like 2/3 of the time. (The sad thing is Thome would have been the perfect part time DH to pair with Andruw Jones that season since Jones did nothing other than murder lefties). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 18, 2013 -> 03:56 PM) (The sad thing is Thome would have been the perfect part time DH to pair with Andruw Jones that season since Jones did nothing other than murder lefties). Yeah, and I saw absolutely no indication whatsoever that this would've even been considered, even though that would've been the perfect platoon for the rotating DH idea, and very well could've won the division. Thome wasn't grindy enough... or, well, he actually wasn't s***ty enough at baseball for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 18, 2013 -> 02:56 PM) (The sad thing is Thome would have been the perfect part time DH to pair with Andruw Jones that season since Jones did nothing other than murder lefties). Except in the beginning of April when he hit like 8 or 9 homers and Kotsay was struggling. Then Ozzie ran Jones out there full time and Jones eventually tweaked something and was virtually ineffective for the month of May (as I recall). Edited July 18, 2013 by witesoxfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jul 18, 2013 -> 07:52 AM) How do you know that he could have gotten more value? That's why I hate armchair GM'ing. Nobody here knows anything about the trade value of a player in any given year. It's not like Hudson was a top 10 prospect that was over matching everyone. It's not like Jackson wasn't highly sought after. It was a good trade that worked well for us. I don't know that they could have. I said I thought that they could have. Arizona is reluctant to trade Holmberg now because he has been pitching so well. I hated including Holmberg in the deal at the time and I hate it today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 18, 2013 Author Share Posted July 18, 2013 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 18, 2013 -> 12:29 AM) Completely agree. I didn't hate the 1st Jackson deal because they traded Hudson. I hated it because I thought they could have gotten so much more for Daniel Hudson and David Holmberg. Makes you wonder though with Hudson. Will he pitch again? I thought the Jackson trade was to have a veteran presence for a possible post season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Ok so I'm digging this out of the mothballs. Am I the only one sick of seeing Keppinger bat 6th ? The season is lost . Keppinger is old and a utility guy , hardly ever hits anything in the gaps with power etc etc for his lack of power. I do not understand DeAza at this point not being in the middle of the lineup when he's red hot , or even Tank who hits Detroit well and Phegley for that matter who hits doubles and HR's. Yes I'm tired of the Sox losing and waiting for trades to start. What is the harm in playing with the lineup and putting guys who are supposedly the future in the hot seat and seeing how they respond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 This is what flavum was referring to in the game thread http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,4523119.story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 First dumb thing Robin has done publicly since he's been manager. I don't see how that can help him with management. It's kind of an excuse for bad baseball and this team is just flat out bad. No need for excuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 24, 2013 -> 09:25 PM) This is what flavum was referring to in the game thread http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,4523119.story That doesn't even phase me . I'm more concerned with his actions than his words and he's not showing me any creative thinking, or playing hot streaks and tendencies or even trying to make it more fun. He's making it a grind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) What are these "hot streaks" of which you speak? Which of those streakers deserved to be bundled together to maximize their streakiness? I don't mean to be a Richard, but you kind of made the case FOR Robin. This team has had more than enough pitching to at least be at or above .500. And that would put them well within striking distance of what is a much better team. And the pitching did this without Gavin, but with guys like Axelrod and Santiago really stepping up. So it's easy to see how miserable the offense and defense has to be to keep losing at this rate. It's really impressive. And can everyone stop pretending they're Dr. Frank Jobe and fretting over the pitch counts of young players like Chris Sale. No wonder Don Cooper doesn't post here anymore, it's insulting. I'm not happy with this team, you're not happy with this team and Robin sure as hell isn't happy with it. So let's see if he can turn it around. Remember, it was Robin who was a big proponent of establishing a "White Sox way" when he was Buddy's boy. I believe he's a smart guy who knows this game and hates to lose. Let him get his hands on some younger guys to see what kind of manager he truly is. Edited July 25, 2013 by The Ginger Kid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 04:02 AM) What are these "hot streaks" of which you speak? Which of those streakers deserved to be bundled together to maximize their streakiness? I don't mean to be a Richard, but you kind of made the case FOR Robin. This team has had more than enough pitching to at least be at or above .500. And that would put them well within striking distance of what is a much better team. And the pitching did this without Gavin, but with guys like Axelrod and Santiago really stepping up. So it's easy to see how miserable the offense and defense has to be to keep losing at this rate. It's really impressive. And can everyone stop pretending they're Dr. Frank Jobe and fretting over the pitch counts of young players like Chris Sale. No wonder Don Cooper doesn't post here anymore, it's insulting. I'm not happy with this team, you're not happy with this team and Robin sure as hell isn't happy with it. So let's see if he can turn it around. Remember, it was Robin who was a big proponent of establishing a "White Sox way" when he was Buddy's boy. I believe he's a smart guy who knows this game and hates to lose. Let him get his hands on some younger guys to see what kind of manager he truly is. Solid post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxJon Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 New Managerial Candidates: Thomas, Thome, Konerko, Dye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 08:36 AM) New Managerial Candidates: Thomas, Thome, Konerko, Dye Why? None of these guys would be anywhere close to an improvement over Ventura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 06:02 AM) Solid post Is there any reason not to try DeAza in the middle of the order ? He has been streaking for over a month , +900 OPS. Is there any reason not to put Alexei at leadoff when he's been getting a ton of hits and stealing bases ? Why bat Keppinger 6th when he basically has no power at all ? Viciedo crushes Detroit why not him in the middle of the lineup against them ? Keppinger has no future here except as a utility guy . During the course of the season and especially now that the season is lost trotting out the same old same old every day makes very little sense to me. Why PK fifth ? Out of respect? Is he the future ? I certainly am not making a case for Robin and leaving Peavy in to start the 8th has to be the icing on the cake when so much is at stake with the immediate future of the franchise at stake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 05:20 PM) Is there any reason not to try DeAza in the middle of the order ? He has been streaking for over a month , +900 OPS. Is there any reason not to put Alexei at leadoff when he's been getting a ton of hits and stealing bases ? Why bat Keppinger 6th when he basically has no power at all ? Viciedo crushes Detroit why not him in the middle of the lineup against them ? Keppinger has no future here except as a utility guy . During the course of the season and especially now that the season is lost trotting out the same old same old every day makes very little sense to me. Why PK fifth ? Out of respect? Is he the future ? I certainly am not making a case for Robin and leaving Peavy in to start the 8th has to be the icing on the cake when so much is at stake with the immediate future of the franchise at stake. Alexei's OBP by month: .316 .316 .295 .298 Yeah that's a pretty good reason not to hit him leadoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 08:36 AM) New Managerial Candidates: Thomas, Thome, Konerko, Dye Why not? They have about the same experience Ventura did when he got the job, which is none. Of course, it pretty much shows in Ventura's results. Woefully over his head. Edited July 25, 2013 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 02:36 PM) Alexei's OBP by month: .316 .316 .295 .298 Yeah that's a pretty good reason not to hit him leadoff. So you entirely missed the point that it really makes no difference at this time of year when all is lost ? No one can hit leadoff besides DeAza is that what you're saying or just not Alexei ? Maybe you want to nitpick I used Alexei as an example and tell me why Keppinger keeps batting 6th when Viciedo hits the Tigers well or the other points I made .Jeez have a little fun screw around with the lineup what's the harm ? Edited July 25, 2013 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 04:45 PM) So you entirely missed the point that it really makes no difference at this time of year when all is lost ? None can hit leadoff besides DeAza is that what you're saying or just not Alexei ? Mayybe you want to nitpick I used Alexei as an example and tell me why Keppinger keeps batting 6th when Viciedo hits the Tigers well or the other points I made Jeez have a little fun screw around with the lineup what's the harm ? So it makes no difference, but we should do it anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.