Viciedo to 1st Base?

[2nd_city_saint787]

What have you seen out of Hahn that makes you think he'd sign Granderson . I'd say it's a long shot at best.

 

We've only had 1 year of Hahn, you can't really make a case either way right now. Just because he didn't add to an already rather high payroll last year doesn't mean he won't this year with a much, much lower payroll.

[knightni]

Viciedo - 5'11"

 

Keith Hernandez - 6'0"

Lou Gehrig - 6'0"

George Sisler - 5'11"

Rod Carew - 6'0"

Steve Garvey - 5'10"

Pete Rose - 5'11"

Don Mattingly - 6'0"

George Brett - 6'0"

Harmon Killebrew - 6'0"

Stan Musial - 6'0"

Carl Yastrzemski - 5'11"

[GreenSox]

Why does a 3B, 1B, RF, and LF have to have a certain amount of power?? We need players who get on base and can knock people in who are on base. Look at the Cardinals. Allen Craig has 11 home runs this year, a lot of power? Nope, but he gets hits. That is all we need.

Economics.

Teams need power. Power hitters who can play corner positions are more plentiful, thus they are cheaper to obtain. If you try to get your power from CF, C, SS and 2b, you have to pay more for it... it is scarce. Thus, it is a more efficient use of resources to take your power at the corners.

 

That's also why it's worthwhile to give our new acquisition a fair look in CF.

Edited August 3, 2013 by GreenSox

[Jake]

Viciedo - 5'11"

 

Keith Hernandez - 6'0"

Lou Gehrig - 6'0"

George Sisler - 5'11"

Rod Carew - 6'0"

Steve Garvey - 5'10"

Pete Rose - 5'11"

Don Mattingly - 6'0"

George Brett - 6'0"

Harmon Killebrew - 6'0"

Stan Musial - 6'0"

Carl Yastrzemski - 5'11"

 

Sold

 

[BigHurt3515]

Economics.

Teams need power. Power hitters who can play corner positions are more plentiful, thus they are cheaper to obtain. If you try to get your power from CF, C, SS and 2b, you have to pay more for it... it is scarce. Thus, it is a more efficient use of resources to take your power at the corners.

 

That's also why it's worthwhile to give our new acquisition a fair look in CF.

 

False. They don't need it. St. Louis is 27th in the league in home runs with 83 and have one of the best records in the league. If you can get enough hitters at the top of the line up that get on base (can be singles, walks, HBP, anything to get on) and have the middle of the order be able to get hits with those runners on base is all you need.

 

There always has been the stigma that corner infield and outfield players need to put up good power numbers. That isn't the case. Teams can win without hitting home runs all the time. And you don't have to have tons of power in order to get doubles. Manny Machado- 9 home runs, but 39 doubles and he plays 3B.

 

James Loney- 10 HR but is batting .313

Playing 1B for Tampa Bay who has the 2nd best record in the AL.

 

We don't NEED hitters at 1st or 3rd or LF or RF that are going to all hit at least 20 home runs.

 

I just don't understand why everyone thinks that a certain player can't play a position because he doesn't have enough power. If the guy can play good defense and gets on base he can play wherever the hell he wants

Edited August 3, 2013 by BigHurt3515

[Paulstar]

What have you seen out of Hahn that makes you think he'd sign Granderson . I'd say it's a long shot at best.

I still think KW still has a lot of influence in the organization and player acquisitions.

[Y2Jimmy0]

False. They don't need it. St. Louis is 27th in the league in home runs with 83 and have one of the best records in the league. If you can get enough hitters at the top of the line up that get on base (can be singles, walks, HBP, anything to get on) and have the middle of the order be able to get hits with those runners on base is all you need.

 

There always has been the stigma that corner infield and outfield players need to put up good power numbers. That isn't the case. Teams can win without hitting home runs all the time. And you don't have to have tons of power in order to get doubles. Manny Machado- 9 home runs, but 39 doubles and he plays 3B.

 

James Loney- 10 HR but is batting .313

Playing 1B for Tampa Bay who has the 2nd best record in the AL.

 

We don't NEED hitters at 1st or 3rd or LF or RF that are going to all hit at least 20 home runs.

 

I just don't understand why everyone thinks that a certain player can't play a position because he doesn't have enough power. If the guy can play good defense and gets on base he can play wherever the hell he wants

 

I disagree. Those cases are the exception and not the rule. While most of your points are valid, that power has to come from somewhere. It doesn't have to be 200 homers but power is important. Machado doesn't have big HR numbers but their CF and SS hit for power. Their Catcher is capable of hitting for power as well. The Cubs of the 90's were able to survive with Grace at 1B because they had a 2B who hit for power. Trust me I understand what you are saying but the White Sox cannot get outslugged in their own park. If the White Sox are going to play in US Cellular Field they need to hit for a good amount of power in my opinion.

[TaylorStSox]

I disagree. Those cases are the exception and not the rule. While most of your points are valid, that power has to come from somewhere. It doesn't have to be 200 homers but power is important. Machado doesn't have big HR numbers but their CF and SS hit for power. Their Catcher is capable of hitting for power as well. The Cubs of the 90's were able to survive with Grace at 1B because they had a 2B who hit for power. Trust me I understand what you are saying but the White Sox cannot get outslugged in their own park. If the White Sox are going to play in US Cellular Field they need to hit for a good amount of power in my opinion.

Agreed. Another reason we need to hit home runs at the Cell is that the gaps play so small. There just isn't a lot of room for doubles and triples.

 

I really don't worry about Viciedo because he's learning on the job. He probably should have been held back in the minors to refine his approach. He was rushed and has to do it at the MLB level. I love his tools, his strength and his swing. He has the ability to adjust pitch to pitch, which is probably the hardest thing in baseball. I can't remember who was pitching, but last week he looked awful swinging at a fastball up and away. He was really late and the swing was pathetic. 2 pitches later, he put that same pitch deep into the RF seats. That's really impressive. He needs to work on his approach and have a plan for every AB. Right now, he's just winging it. When he first came back from injury, he had a plan to be patient and he worked counts and drew walks. He got away from that, but he showed me that with the right guidance, it can be done. We just need to be patient and let him mature. He's exactly the type of high upside hitter we should be running out there in a rebuild.

Edited August 3, 2013 by TaylorStSox

[Marty34]

Agreed. Another reason we need to hit home runs at the Cell is that the gaps play so small. There just isn't a lot of room for doubles and triples.

 

I really don't worry about Viciedo because he's learning on the job. He probably should have been held back in the minors to refine his approach. He was rushed and has to do it at the MLB level. I love his tools, his strength and his swing. He has the ability to adjust pitch to pitch, which is probably the hardest thing in baseball. I can't remember who was pitching, but last week he looked awful swinging at a fastball up and away. He was really late and the swing was pathetic. 2 pitches later, he put that same pitch deep into the RF seats. That's really impressive. He needs to work on his approach and have a plan for every AB. Right now, he's just winging it. When he first came back from injury, he had a plan to be patient and he worked counts and drew walks. He got away from that, but he showed me that with the right guidance, it can be done. We just need to be patient and let him mature. He's exactly the type of high upside hitter we should be running out there in a rebuild.

 

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. I'm not worried about Viciedo either. He's got at most another 400 AB's to figure it, if he doesn't anyone can play LF with Jacobs the likely next man up.

[TaylorStSox]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. I'm not worried about Viciedo either. He's got at most another 400 AB's to figure it, if he doesn't anyone can play LF with Jacobs the likely next man up.

Are you talking about Viciedo or yourself?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Viciedo - 5'11"

 

Keith Hernandez - 6'0"

Lou Gehrig - 6'0"

George Sisler - 5'11"

Rod Carew - 6'0"

Steve Garvey - 5'10"

Pete Rose - 5'11"

Don Mattingly - 6'0"

George Brett - 6'0"

Harmon Killebrew - 6'0"

Stan Musial - 6'0"

Carl Yastrzemski - 5'11"

Half this list is composed of players from different era's when ballplayers we're shorter and guys who played other positions for the the earlier parts of there careers . There are no players listed that short playing now . I'll save you the trouble. Prince Fielder is 5'11 , Mike Napoli is 6' 0" ,Swisher 6"0, Brandon Moss 6'0". That's all I could find in a limited search . So Viciedo would be tied with Fielder as the shortest. It's just not ideal but it is possible.

 

Moss has played all outfield positions for the A's and 3rd and 1st so he's a versatile guy.

[BigHurt3515]

I disagree. Those cases are the exception and not the rule. While most of your points are valid, that power has to come from somewhere. It doesn't have to be 200 homers but power is important. Machado doesn't have big HR numbers but their CF and SS hit for power. Their Catcher is capable of hitting for power as well. The Cubs of the 90's were able to survive with Grace at 1B because they had a 2B who hit for power. Trust me I understand what you are saying but the White Sox cannot get outslugged in their own park. If the White Sox are going to play in US Cellular Field they need to hit for a good amount of power in my opinion.

 

There is no rule. I know I am in the minority but we don't need tons of home runs to win. Hasn't worked and it won't continue to work. Viciedo, Dunn, Garcia, and Rios/De Aza will provide home runs. We need guys that do more then that which we don't have on this current team.

[Andy the Clown]

Viciedo - 5'11"

 

Keith Hernandez - 6'0"

Lou Gehrig - 6'0"

George Sisler - 5'11"

Rod Carew - 6'0"

Steve Garvey - 5'10"

Pete Rose - 5'11"

Don Mattingly - 6'0"

George Brett - 6'0"

Harmon Killebrew - 6'0"

Stan Musial - 6'0"

Carl Yastrzemski - 5'11"

 

Gregg Jefferies was also 5-11

[ChiSox59]

Chances are Dunn is the DH with Tank at 1B.

 

Dunn has been really good for 2 months now, when are you haters gonna cut him some slack. We want obp on this team right? his obp the last 2 months has been in the .390s.

 

Just reading this thread for the first time, but you couldn't be more right. Dunn has been the best player on this team sans Chris Sale for a few months. Not saying much, but he is far from the crux of the SOX problems at this stage. Let him play out his contract and he gone.

[southsider2k5]

Viciedo - 5'11"

 

Keith Hernandez - 6'0"

Lou Gehrig - 6'0"

George Sisler - 5'11"

Rod Carew - 6'0"

Steve Garvey - 5'10"

Pete Rose - 5'11"

Don Mattingly - 6'0"

George Brett - 6'0"

Harmon Killebrew - 6'0"

Stan Musial - 6'0"

Carl Yastrzemski - 5'11"

 

None of those guys is from the last two generations of first basemen.

[knightni]

None of those guys is from the last two generations of first basemen.

Very true, but they played 1b just fine at their height.

[southsider2k5]

Very true, but they played 1b just fine at their height.

 

Baseball has changed a lot in two generations. Taller 1B's is one of those things.

[Andy the Clown]

Baseball has changed a lot in two generations. Taller 1B's is one of those things.

 

Having tall 1Bs has more to do with the classic profile of a power player at the corner, rather than any defensive necessity. Teams want power players at 1B, power players tend to be bigger guys, etc., etc. As a counterexample, Allen Craig is 6-2. Do you think his 3 inches on Dayan really means anything defensively? Probably not.

 

Personally, I don't care where Dayan plays. He needs to hit better, or he won't be worth much either way.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Wonder what Tanks reach/arm length is. That could play into whether he's too short or not. If he's got a long reach that could make up for a few inches he lacks......Too add to the previous lists Carlos Santana who played some first is also 5'11".

[southsider2k5]

Having tall 1Bs has more to do with the classic profile of a power player at the corner, rather than any defensive necessity. Teams want power players at 1B, power players tend to be bigger guys, etc., etc. As a counterexample, Allen Craig is 6-2. Do you think his 3 inches on Dayan really means anything defensively? Probably not.

 

Personally, I don't care where Dayan plays. He needs to hit better, or he won't be worth much either way.

 

You don't think an extra 3 inches helps you at 1B? There is a reason 1B's have gotten tall.

[Andy the Clown]

I wish Dayan could pick it at 3B. That would be awesome. I know that's almost stupid to say but it would be very helpful for next year if he had the skills to stick there a couple years back.

 

He would have a chance to be an above-average offensive player at 3B...

[Andy the Clown]

You don't think an extra 3 inches helps you at 1B? There is a reason 1B's have gotten tall.

 

You're right. There is a reason. I explained it in my previous post.

[southsider2k5]

You're right. There is a reason. I explained it in my previous post.

 

You can still be strong at 5'8". That is just silly.

[Andy the Clown]

You can still be strong at 5'8". That is just silly.

 

Sure. But those guys are more rare, at least according to the bell curve.

[southsider2k5]

Sure. But those guys are more rare, at least according to the bell curve.

 

And guys with longer arms and legs are going to be able to catch more balls at first base.