Paul Konerko Returning to White Sox

[Vance Law]

With the Sox defense last year we need all the defensive replacements we can get.

 

So Konerko's spot should be used for a defensive replacement--- for who?

[BlackSox13]

Use konerko's bench spot for an extra arm in the pen.

[Dick Allen]

Use konerko's bench spot for an extra arm in the pen.

That's why Axe was let go. Gee thanks Paulie.

[LittleHurt05]

Adam Dunn?

 

Yup, just slightly behind Donnie Veal.

[Balta1701]

I'm not happy Konerko's back, but really, I could not care less because, as I've said, I think this is overall a rather meaningless move. If I believed they were going to be competitive and they did this, I'd be just as upset as quite a few others on here.

Well there's one explanation. I'm one of those who, in the back of my mind, kept thinking with this pitching staff they had a shot.

 

Now at least I know they don't care about winning, so I can save myself $200 next year as I can catch the late-season standing ovation for the guy on highlights.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Thome was going to be the starting DH for the White Sox with Kotsay moving to DH. Thome ultimately signed with the Sox most direct rival and had a monstrosity of a season.

 

Konerko was only going to sign with the White Sox. He is going to be a bench player.

 

Those situations are not comparable. I liken this signing to that Kosuke Fukudome.

Montrosity of a season ? Is that good or bad . Sounds bad to me . He signed a one-year, $1.5 million deal with the Twins in 2010 in hopes of showing he could still swing the bat. And that's what he did, pounding 25 homers and putting up 59 RBIs in 276 at-bats. .410 OBP.

 

In the meantime the Sox used Kotsay, Andruw Jones , Mark Teahen Omar Vizquel and finally Manny Ramirez instead . The Sox decided they needed to do things their way instead of what turned out to be the best free agent value on the market. Back then the move was made in the name of "flexibility." Results : Twins win division despite losing Morneau for 29 games when Thome replaced him and the Twins went 19-10 . Now they are forfeiting flexibility.Then they realized they needed a LH power hitter and signed Dunn. Downhill since then. I was talking the whole trickle down effect theory how its helped Minnesota and hurt the Sox not comparing anything else.

 

One move begets a move ,which begets a move ,which begets another move. The whole thing has the same stamp on it . We'll do things OUR way forget being smart.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Montrosity of a season ? Is that good or bad . Sounds bad to me . He signed a one-year, $1.5 million deal with the Twins in 2010 in hopes of showing he could still swing the bat. And that's what he did, pounding 25 homers and putting up 59 RBIs in 276 at-bats. .410 OBP.

 

In the meantime the Sox used Kotsay, Andruw Jones , Mark Teahen Omar Vizquel and finally Manny Ramirez instead . The Sox decided they needed to do things their way instead of what turned out to be the best free agent value on the market. Back then the move was made in the name of "flexibility." Results : Twins win division despite losing Morneau for 29 games when Thome replaced him and the Twins went 19-10 . Now they are forfeiting flexibility.Then they realized they needed a LH power hitter and signed Dunn. Downhill since then. I was talking the whole trickle down effect theory how its helped Minnesota and hurt the Sox not comparing anything else.

 

One move begets a move ,which begets a move ,which begets another move. The whole thing has the same stamp on it . We'll do things OUR way forget being smart.

So you are saying because they wanted to be more flexible back then, it was dumb. Now, signing Paulie makes them less flexible and that is dumb. We need circus music.

[witesoxfan]

Huh? That has nothing do with what I'm trying to say.

 

Had the Sox signed Jim Thome as a JR "loyalty" move two weeks after signing Dunn, that would be a more similar situation to signing PK right now.

 

I still don't understand why this matters. The White Sox gave a huge contract to Abreu, Hahn and Konerko have both said he's going to be a part time player. I believe you are insinuating that Konerko is going to get the majority of playing time. He's not.

 

Montrosity of a season ? Is that good or bad . Sounds bad to me . He signed a one-year, $1.5 million deal with the Twins in 2010 in hopes of showing he could still swing the bat. And that's what he did, pounding 25 homers and putting up 59 RBIs in 276 at-bats. .410 OBP.

 

In the meantime the Sox used Kotsay, Andruw Jones , Mark Teahen Omar Vizquel and finally Manny Ramirez instead . The Sox decided they needed to do things their way instead of what turned out to be the best free agent value on the market. Back then the move was made in the name of "flexibility." Results : Twins win division despite losing Morneau for 29 games when Thome replaced him and the Twins went 19-10 . Now they are forfeiting flexibility.Then they realized they needed a LH power hitter and signed Dunn. Downhill since then. I was talking the whole trickle down effect theory how its helped Minnesota and hurt the Sox not comparing anything else.

 

One move begets a move ,which begets a move ,which begets another move. The whole thing has the same stamp on it . We'll do things OUR way forget being smart.

 

Monstrosity meaning good, as in he was a monster.

 

People saw the Dunn signing coming from a mile away. The Sox tried to trade for him in July of that season. That was an obvious hole that needed to be filled, and Dunn has disappointed. There were not many people upset with it at the time.

 

What possible trickle down effect do you think this Konerko signing can have? This isn't the Sox blowing off signing Jim Thome because they want Kotsay to be the DH. This is the Sox signing a bench player who just so happens to be pretty important in the organization's history.

 

I think the best comparison that could possible be made is to Harold Baines. Baines was brought back in 2001 to do this Konerko role. Thomas tore his triceps and Baines was thrust into the full time role. He was ineffective and stopped being use, save for one final plate appearance in September.

[TaylorStSox]

So you are saying because they wanted to be more flexible back then, it was dumb. Now, signing Paulie makes them less flexible and that is dumb. We need circus music.

I really don't care about this signing, but honestly, you're getting beat up in this thread.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

So you are saying because they wanted to be more flexible back then, it was dumb. Now, signing Paulie makes them less flexible and that is dumb. We need circus music.

If you can't understand then you need to play your own circus music and quit trying to understand the use of a 25 man roster in baseball. Your purposefully turning what I said into something much less. Back then it was dumb. Now it's dumb for the same reason. Doing things that have nothing to do with winning baseball games.

[BlackSox13]

I have to say don't agree with this one bit. Assuming Gillespie, Alexei, Gordon and Abreu is the infield that leaves Garcia, Paulie, Keppinger, Jordan and a backup catcher on the bench which shorts the pen an arm they will most likely need. Not signing Paulie adds an arm to the pen with Keppinger as a backup 1B. I guess what I'm saying is do we really need another backup 1B on the bench? Seems a waste to me.

Edited December 5, 2013 by StRoostifer

[Dick Allen]

I really don't care about this signing, but honestly, you're getting beat up in this thread.

No I'm not. This is a guy who has a now defined role, both he and the team confirmed it. The complainers are ignoring it.

 

 

 

 

[Balta1701]

No I'm not. This is a guy who has a now defined role, both he and the team confirmed it. The complainers are ignoring it.

And having him in that role makes the team worse right now.

[LittleHurt05]

I still don't understand why this matters. The White Sox gave a huge contract to Abreu, Hahn and Konerko have both said he's going to be a part time player. I believe you are insinuating that Konerko is going to get the majority of playing time. He's not.

 

No, I realize that Abreu will get the majority of playing time. But if he starts 120 games instead of 140 simply because Konerko wants one more go around is silly and could stunt Abreu's development and adjustment to the majors.

[Dick Allen]

I have to say don't agree with this one bit. Assuming Gillespie, Alexei, Gordon and Abreu is the infield that leaves Garcia, Paulie, Keppinger, Jordan and a backup catcher on the bench which shorts the pen an arm they will most likely need. Not signing Paulie adds an arm to the pen with Keppinger as a backup 1B. I guess what I'm saying is do we really need another backup 1B on the bench? Seems a waste to me.

It's not ideal, and they won't be short a pitcher, but what it means is a guy like Leury or Elmore or another guy they acquire who can play both the infield and outfield will be on the bench instead of someone who is strickly an infielder or an outfielder. You also improve your pinch hitting, as Paulie, even when depleted, has hit lefties, and if a tough lefty starts and they go to a righty, Dunn will be available. Right now, I would guess the guys on the bubble because of this are Keppinger and Jordan Danks. Not exactly franchise changing players.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I still don't understand why this matters. The White Sox gave a huge contract to Abreu, Hahn and Konerko have both said he's going to be a part time player. I believe you are insinuating that Konerko is going to get the majority of playing time. He's not.

 

 

 

Monstrosity meaning good, as in he was a monster.

 

People saw the Dunn signing coming from a mile away. The Sox tried to trade for him in July of that season. That was an obvious hole that needed to be filled, and Dunn has disappointed. There were not many people upset with it at the time.

 

What possible trickle down effect do you think this Konerko signing can have?

 

Guess you were using the literal defintion whereas I was using the the more standard definition of something large and ugly. Was hoping it wasn't a deliberate attempt to deceive. So I'll be happy since you say it wasn't.

 

One not related to the roster is that for all the good feelings signing Abreu gave me this had the exact opposite effect. And I know I'm far from being alone in that regard. Over at SSS most of the over 500 comments on the initial reaction were much the same as mine. What price can you put on dashing hopes of competing ?

 

Again, asking me to predict the future as far as the construction of future rosters is beyond impossible to say. How can I know if that one move not made because of this would've been the best move of Hahn's career or the worst ?

Edited December 5, 2013 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[2nd_city_saint787]

Well there's one explanation. I'm one of those who, in the back of my mind, kept thinking with this pitching staff they had a shot.

 

Now at least I know they don't care about winning, so I can save myself $200 next year as I can catch the late-season standing ovation for the guy on highlights.

 

I have that same feeling in the back of my mind.....Not sure why upgrading the DH position as opposed to someone like a Angel Sanchez who isn't gonna get a lot of playing time eliminates that feeling.

 

 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

TWO roads diverged in a yellow wood,

And sorry I could not travel both

And be one traveler, long I stood

And looked down one as far as I could

To where it bent in the undergrowth; 5

 

Then took the other, as just as fair,

And having perhaps the better claim,

Because it was grassy and wanted wear;

Though as for that the passing there

Had worn them really about the same, 10

 

And both that morning equally lay

In leaves no step had trodden black.

Oh, I kept the first for another day!

Yet knowing how way leads on to way,

I doubted if I should ever come back. 15

 

I shall be telling this with a sigh

Somewhere ages and ages hence:

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—

I took the one less traveled by,

And that has made all the difference.

 

Robert Frost

[Balta1701]

It's not ideal, and they won't be short a pitcher, but what it means is a guy like Leury or Elmore or another guy they acquire who can play both the infield and outfield will be on the bench instead of someone who is strickly an infielder or an outfielder. You also improve your pinch hitting, as Paulie, even when depleted, has hit lefties, and if a tough lefty starts and they go to a righty, Dunn will be available. Right now, I would guess the guys on the bubble because of this are Keppinger and Jordan Danks. Not exactly franchise changing players.

The trouble with "improving the bench right now" is that it actually doesn't.

 

First of all, aside from Gillaspie, our entire bench is RH. Furthermore, outside of De Aza and Dunn, there aren't lefties in the lineup.

 

In other words, if paul konerko is pinch hitting late in the game...it doesn't improve the matchup unless he pinch hits for Dunn after a lefty is brought in.

 

Furthermore, it was noted to me in the other thread how hesitant the White Sox are to use their backups at the catcher's position when they only have 1 backup. We've all seen this through the years, usually the guy who starts the game finishes the game and only rarely do they sub in.

 

Now, the "one backup" state that we have for catcher is the same situation 5 different positions are in. If its an RBI situation, outside of 1b, 2b and 3b, Konerko pinch hitting leaves no one on the bench capable of playing those positions if an injury happens. If you stick Leury in CF in the 7th inning after Konerko pinch hits and then Viciedo turns an ankle or something like that, we get to see Keppinger in LF. The proper reaction to that would be to be even more hesitant to pinch hit for anyone because there is only 1 backup for the entire OF and SS positions.

 

On top of that...what happens if, for example, Viciedo or Garcia get hit by a ball and need 2-3 days off and legitimately can't go? On those days...there are zero backups on the entire roster. You can't pinch hit for Leury or anyone else because you don't have a single backup for those positions.

 

Basically, they need to cut Keppinger or Dunn to make this work, because otherwise it's a trainwreck, and any team the white sox approach in a trade should knwo that.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I have that same feeling in the back of my mind.....Not sure why upgrading the DH position as opposed to someone like a Angel Sanchez who isn't gonna get a lot of playing time eliminates that feeling.

Because despite your arguments that it doesn't hurt the team you know in your heart it was the wrong decision on based on the rebuild/retool that has to be given every consideration.

[witesoxfan]

No, I realize that Abreu will get the majority of playing time. But if he starts 120 games instead of 140 simply because Konerko wants one more go around is silly and could stunt Abreu's development and adjustment to the majors.

 

I think this will cut into Dunn's time far more than it will Abreu's, but I guess that's just opinion. We'll have to see how that plays out.

 

Guess you were using the literal defintion whereas I was using the the more standard definition of something large and ugly. Was hoping it wasn't a deliberate attempt to deceive. So I'll be happy since you say it wasn't.

 

One not related to the roster is that for all the good feelings signing Abreu gave me this had the exact opposite effect. And I know I'm far from being alone in that regard. Over at SSS most of the over 500 comments on the initial reaction were much the same as mine. What price can you put on dashing hopes of competing ?

 

Again, asking me to predict the future as far as the construction of future rosters is beyond impossible to say. How can I know if that one move not made because of this would've been the best move of Hahn's career or the worst ?

 

That makes sense, and I understand it from that aspect.

 

Like I said, I'm not crazy about this move either, but it's small. Like you, I think it stunts the development of some unknown. It's likely that the unknown is someone like Brent Lillibridge or Tyler Greene, but it could also be Carlos Quentin too. It's incredibly frustrating because if the team is serious about winning, they don't go into the season with 3 exclusive 1B/DHs but rather sign or trade for a guy like Craig Gentry (who I seem to remember mashed lefties and was also great defensively; if I'm mistaken, just think lefty masher) who does have added versatility. If they're serious about rebuilding, why are they bringing back a guy who is almost 40? It doesn't make sense other than as a gesture of respect and loyalty, which seems silly.

 

Still, if done right, I don't see it being totally unfeasible that this move actually benefits the Sox and helps them win more games. At this point, in theory, you have a perfect platoon at DH. No, it is not the ideal spot for a platoon, but it will get those two out of the lineups when they should be out of the lineups, so it's not inconceivable that they could ultimately get like 3 WAR out of the DH spot and 8 WAR total between 1B and DH, which would be an incredible improvement. Add an upgrade at 3B and C, even if marginal upgrades, and the Sox almost look like a team that will battle for 2nd or 3rd.

 

Ultimately, I think it's a nil move. I don't think it's going to have much of an effect either way. That's why I really don't care.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I have seen a lot of people in this thread mentioning cutting Dunn or Keppinger? How does this help? If the Sox were to eat Keppinger's entire contract that would mean that it cost $10.5 million to bring back a mascot as the 25th guy. This is one of the negatives about Reinsdorf. It's just a pointless signing.

[BlackSox13]

It's not ideal, and they won't be short a pitcher, but what it means is a guy like Leury or Elmore or another guy they acquire who can play both the infield and outfield will be on the bench instead of someone who is strickly an infielder or an outfielder. You also improve your pinch hitting, as Paulie, even when depleted, has hit lefties, and if a tough lefty starts and they go to a righty, Dunn will be available. Right now, I would guess the guys on the bubble because of this are Keppinger and Jordan Danks. Not exactly franchise changing players.

2 things. 1: does Danks have options left? 2: what do we do with Keppinger? Obviously trading him is best case scenario but who would be interested? I suppose the clerk at the liquor store might give up a twelver but would the clerk take on that salary?

[Dick Allen]

The trouble with "improving the bench right now" is that it actually doesn't.

 

First of all, aside from Gillaspie, our entire bench is RH. Furthermore, outside of De Aza and Dunn, there aren't lefties in the lineup.

 

In other words, if paul konerko is pinch hitting late in the game...it doesn't improve the matchup unless he pinch hits for Dunn after a lefty is brought in.

 

Furthermore, it was noted to me in the other thread how hesitant the White Sox are to use their backups at the catcher's position when they only have 1 backup. We've all seen this through the years, usually the guy who starts the game finishes the game and only rarely do they sub in.

 

Now, the "one backup" state that we have for catcher is the same situation 5 different positions are in. If its an RBI situation, outside of 1b, 2b and 3b, Konerko pinch hitting leaves no one on the bench capable of playing those positions if an injury happens. If you stick Leury in CF in the 7th inning after Konerko pinch hits and then Viciedo turns an ankle or something like that, we get to see Keppinger in LF. The proper reaction to that would be to be even more hesitant to pinch hit for anyone because there is only 1 backup for the entire OF and SS positions.

 

On top of that...what happens if, for example, Viciedo or Garcia get hit by a ball and need 2-3 days off and legitimately can't go? On those days...there are zero backups on the entire roster. You can't pinch hit for Leury or anyone else because you don't have a single backup for those positions.

 

Basically, they need to cut Keppinger or Dunn to make this work, because otherwise it's a trainwreck, and any team the white sox approach in a trade should knwo that.

That kind of stuff doesn't happen very often. It could happen, and is a reason why this isn't exactly ideal. Why don't you see what the White Sox actual roster looks like when they actually have to play the games before complaining about what happens if Garcia has to miss 2 games because he gets hit by a pitch. The Sox said they can make it work. The Indians made it work with the same type of guy.

[witesoxfan]

I have seen a lot of people in this thread mentioning cutting Dunn or Keppinger? How does this help? If the Sox were to eat Keppinger's entire contract that would mean that it cost $10.5 million to bring back a mascot as the 25th guy. This is one of the negatives about Reinsdorf. It's just a pointless signing.

 

There is no way they'd eat his entire deal. I could see them eating like $5-6 mill of the $9 mill he has remaining, but that's about it.