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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 14, 2014 -> 04:57 PM)
Even when it is included, they still extremely close, as I clearly stated in the post.

 

How about another set of numbers to drive home the point? Jeff Keppinger career WAR 1.1. Gordan Beckham 5.6. Over the last five seasons Keppinger is 3.4, compared to Gordon's 5.6. In the last four years Kepp is 0.6, while Beckham is 3.5. Those numbers include Keppingers career season, and leave out Beckhams best season.

 

In other words, you are letting your emotions get the best of you here.

 

My emotions? I'm not the one defending Beckham. Emotion would be the only reason. There isn't a person outside of a handful of people in Chicago that would ever think he had any value.

 

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QUOTE (Vance Law @ Apr 14, 2014 -> 03:23 PM)
Blue Jays just lost their second baseman for the season.

 

Tripped on his way to the bat rack, yet another entry into the annals of freaky baseball injuries. If I recall correctly the Blue Jays expressed interest in Beckham before plus there is the Marco Paddy connection so there might be something there. Now the question is what is the asking price given their current circumstances?

 

I'd be comfortable with a return of 2-3 C+ project prospects for Beckham, something like Matthew Smoral, Richard Urena & maybe Deck McGuire as a throw-in flyer might be realistic.

Edited by Bruce_Blixton
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QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 14, 2014 -> 05:02 PM)
Let me ask this...do you guys believe Semien will provide significantly better production this year than Beckham?

 

If so, fine, go with it, bench Beckham or super-sub him, and give Semien the regular every day 2nd base job.

 

If not, send Semien back down and let him get at-bats in Charlotte and allow Gordon to either make or break himself with the White Sox.

 

It's really not that difficult.

 

I would guess they put up about the same numbers if either was given the starting job.

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 14, 2014 -> 05:02 PM)
Let me ask this...do you guys believe Semien will provide significantly better production this year than Beckham?

 

If so, fine, go with it, bench Beckham or super-sub him, and give Semien the regular every day 2nd base job.

 

If not, send Semien back down and let him get at-bats in Charlotte and allow Gordon to either make or break himself with the White Sox.

 

It's really not that difficult.

Yes, I believe Marcus is already better than Gordon. Semien should be our starting 2b right now.

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I have an awfully hard time with the hate Beckham group many of whom were hating on Alexei last season and the off season. Now that clamor has stopped and it's hate Beckham. Gordon is a good talent and is a top notch defender. He seemed to be coming around with the bat and then gets injured. Let's give this stuff time to shake out. I like Semien over L Garcia for the super sub role although some think he might benefit from another tear in the minors. As a super IF sub Semien would get lots of playing time I think

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QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Apr 14, 2014 -> 11:54 PM)
Yes, I believe Marcus is already better than Gordon. Semien should be our starting 2b right now.

 

 

After 14 games you say this? I remember hw Josh Fields was anointed as the next 3Bman of the future based on half a year stats and where did he go?

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Is this the thread where I state that Gillaspie is a better fit as the 3rd baseman of the Sox for the next 5 years than Davidson is? Gillaspie isn't great, but he provides some solid offense as a lefty hitter in a lineup stacked with righties in the middle of the order.

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QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Apr 14, 2014 -> 05:54 PM)
Yes, I believe Marcus is already better than Gordon. Semien should be our starting 2b right now.

 

Agree 100% with this. Marcus is an incredibly smart, selective hitter. He'll have his struggles at times, but offers an offensive dimension that Beckham doesn't possess. He also fits the 2 hole perfectly and makes the entire lineup better. His ability to take pitches not only helps to wear down opposing pitchers but also gives our middle of the order hitters more looks prior to their at-bats. Semien may never be a star, but he's exactly what this team needs more of offensively.

 

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Apr 14, 2014 -> 05:56 PM)
After 14 games you say this? I remember hw Josh Fields was anointed as the next 3Bman of the future based on half a year stats and where did he go?

Please don't compare Semien to Fields. They are nothing alike as hitters and it's an incredibly lazy comparison in hopes of making a point that doesn't exist. Like I said before, Semien is an incredibly smart, selective hitter. Prospects with his skills typically translate well to the majors and everything I've seen from him suggests the same.

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QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 14, 2014 -> 06:14 PM)
Is this the thread where I state that Gillaspie is a better fit as the 3rd baseman of the Sox for the next 5 years than Davidson is? Gillaspie isn't great, but he provides some solid offense as a lefty hitter in a lineup stacked with righties in the middle of the order.

Conor is starting to look legit against RHP, but he still sucks against lefties. I still think his role is ultimately as a utility player that can fill in at 3B, 1B, 2B & LF. Obviously he'd have to learn a few positions there, but there's no reason we couldn't get his bat into the lineup 4 or 5 times a week if he's backing up Davidson, Abreu, Semien, & Viciedo (or whoever the LF is) next year. With a four man bench like we typically go with, I think having a reserve like that would be ideal.

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QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 14, 2014 -> 06:14 PM)
Is this the thread where I state that Gillaspie is a better fit as the 3rd baseman of the Sox for the next 5 years than Davidson is? Gillaspie isn't great, but he provides some solid offense as a lefty hitter in a lineup stacked with righties in the middle of the order.

I haven't seen enough of Davidson, but I like Conor.

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QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Apr 14, 2014 -> 05:56 PM)
After 14 games you say this? I remember hw Josh Fields was anointed as the next 3Bman of the future based on half a year stats and where did he go?

I've been saying it since the end of last year. No doubt in my mind that Marcus is already the better player and he's going to get better, Gordon is not no matter what excuse we give him this year.

 

And please stop with the Josh Fields and Gordon Beckham examples as to why Marcus shouldn't be up here or starting or whatever. He's not Fields and he's not Beckham and just because those guys are bad baseball players doesn't mean we should be scared to push Marcus. He's going to be able to handle it just fine.

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And I have to disagree with you Fathom. I'm not 100 percent convinced that Davidson is the answer long term at 3b but it's not Conor either, he'll hit a slump soon where his numbers start to plummet. Of course I hope I'm wrong about that but I really don't believe Gillaspie is a legit starting 3b in the majors.

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QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Apr 14, 2014 -> 06:32 PM)
I haven't seen enough of Davidson, but I like Conor.

 

Honestly with a great year from Conor, you could probably flip him for a couple prospects or since we need a lefty bat, you can deal Davidson instead for another prospect of an area of need (say catcher: maybe Hedges or Grandal with Headley likely on his way out in San Diego).

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QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Apr 14, 2014 -> 05:55 PM)
I have an awfully hard time with the hate Beckham group many of whom were hating on Alexei last season and the off season. Now that clamor has stopped and it's hate Beckham. Gordon is a good talent and is a top notch defender. He seemed to be coming around with the bat and then gets injured. Let's give this stuff time to shake out. I like Semien over L Garcia for the super sub role although some think he might benefit from another tear in the minors. As a super IF sub Semien would get lots of playing time I think

 

Some hate Beckham, but it's been pretty rational and calm in this thread. The fact of the matter is, Gordon Beckham just isn't a good major leaguer. You just mentioned Josh Fields, but I didn't jump down your throat and say "what's with the Josh Fields hate?" because I also realize that Josh Fields sucks as a major league baseball player.

 

As a person, I think Beckham seems like a badass dude and he seems like a great teammate. As a baseball player, he's not good. Just because Hawk says it does not make it true.

 

Shack, I do feel that Semien puts up considerably better numbers than Beckham this year, and the year of experience makes it more worthwhile. I think about the only area where Beckham could be better is average, but Semien does so many little things that typically go unappreciated that really help make the lineup work much better.

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QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 14, 2014 -> 06:14 PM)
Is this the thread where I state that Gillaspie is a better fit as the 3rd baseman of the Sox for the next 5 years than Davidson is? Gillaspie isn't great, but he provides some solid offense as a lefty hitter in a lineup stacked with righties in the middle of the order.

 

Conor fits approximately 1000x better if he can just learn to play 2B and/or corner OF. LH Keppinger, basically

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QUOTE (Jake @ Apr 14, 2014 -> 08:26 PM)
Conor fits approximately 1000x better if he can just learn to play 2B and/or corner OF. LH Keppinger, basically

Exactly, I'm a big proponent of Conor but unless he can manage a 630ish OPS against left handers he is a platoon player (which there is nothing wrong with) he adds a good amount of value to this team. Especially if our bench next year is going to shake out looking like this.

 

OF Danks

UTL Garcia

UTL Gillaspie

C Flowers/Nieto

 

that is a solid 1.7-2.5 Win bench with slightly above average defense.

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QUOTE (beautox @ Apr 14, 2014 -> 08:42 PM)
Exactly, I'm a big proponent of Conor but unless he can manage a 630ish OPS against left handers he is a platoon player (which there is nothing wrong with) he adds a good amount of value to this team. Especially if our bench next year is going to shake out looking like this.

 

OF Danks

UTL Garcia

UTL Gillaspie

C Flowers/Nieto

 

that is a solid 1.7-2.5 Win bench with slightly above average defense.

 

Even if the guy is just a platoon player at best, being the left-handed partner in the platoon gets him anywhere between 65-75% of the starts. Finding someone capable of playing a little bit of third and hitting lefties isn't terribly hard.

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QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Apr 14, 2014 -> 07:10 PM)
Beckham wasn't rushed. He has a horrible looking swing and pitchers adjusted. He never had a good approach, but had the wrists and reflexes to hit mediocre pitching. He wasn't able to adapt. He's a bust. Even if he starts out on fire, he won't have any value. Teams aren't clamoring for busted prospects in arbitration.

 

I wouldn't compare him to Semien. Semien has a much better approach and a lower maintenance swing.

 

If Semien wasn't a White Sox, I'd be all for keeping Beckham. I LOVE Beckham in comparison to Keppinger.

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QUOTE (chisoxfan310 @ Apr 14, 2014 -> 09:11 PM)
Even if the guy is just a platoon player at best, being the left-handed partner in the platoon gets him anywhere between 65-75% of the starts. Finding someone capable of playing a little bit of third and hitting lefties isn't terribly hard.

 

Unless you select Keppinger coming off a career season, haha.

 

(Yes, yes, I know there are many things that Hahn has done quite well, this was the only real black mark so far on his regime).

 

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I've been searching for the seriously written article about how beckham has potential to be a hall of famer. Failing miserably however. It was a large thread on soxtalk, I think it was last year. Thought there could be a few good laughs in there.

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 14, 2014 -> 11:37 PM)
Unless you select Keppinger coming off a career season, haha.

 

(Yes, yes, I know there are many things that Hahn has done quite well, this was the only real black mark so far on his regime).

 

I would say it's not even a black mark. Paying Youkilis $10 or $12 million for the 17 games he played would have been. We were coming off almost making the playoffs and had no one for 3rd base. Keppinger was the best option available. It's free agency. It's the convenience store. You overpay. But its not like it's an enormous amount of money overall.

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