Shooting at Seattle college campus

[Soxbadger]

Rock,

 

1 person can create a religion. But almost all definitions of "religion" accept that there is some sort of structure/rules for people to follow, even if it is just 1 person.

[Jenksismyhero]

I dont see what the relevance is. Some people may follow atheism in a religious structure, not sure how that is relevant to anything. The comment was atheism is as much as a religion as Christianity, which is simply not true.

 

By definition I am an atheist, but there is no "religion" that I subscribe to. The reason is that my belief is not immutable. It is my best attempt at an answer today, but it does not define me at all. Its entirely irrelevant to who I am. Its no more important than any of my other ideas.

 

You're ignoring that people like Dawkins want to change people's minds. It's not just what he personally believes, he's trying to start a movement (and has for a while). That's my point. In that sense, it's just as much of a religion as Christianity. It's going beyond a mere belief into something of a practice based on those beliefs.

[StrangeSox]

You're ignoring that people like Dawkins want to change people's minds. It's not just what he personally believes, he's trying to start a movement (and has for a while). That's my point. In that sense, it's just as much of a religion as Christianity. It's going beyond a mere belief into something of a practice based on those beliefs.

 

 

 

1) Your definition proves far too much. Philosophers form beliefs and arguments about morals, ethics, aesthetics etc. and attempt to put those beliefs into practice through philosophical arguments. Proponents of competing anthropological or historical analyses have beliefs and attempt to put them into practice by presenting papers, writing text books, etc. All sorts of political, economic and social ideologies follow the same pattern. They are not all a religion unless you broaden the definition of what a religion is to the point that it essentially becomes meaningless.

 

2) Dawkins does not represent the entirety of what atheism is. Plenty of people are atheist or agnostic without being activist about it. The particular way that movement atheists act may resemble a religion, but many more atheists don't give much of a f*** either way. I am no more religious about my lack of belief in a god than I am about my lack of belief in say the superiority of soccer over baseball.

[Soxbadger]

You're ignoring that people like Dawkins want to change people's minds. It's not just what he personally believes, he's trying to start a movement (and has for a while). That's my point. In that sense, it's just as much of a religion as Christianity. It's going beyond a mere belief into something of a practice based on those beliefs.

 

Im not ignoring him at all. You said "just as much as", when I think you meant to say "to some atheism is the equivalent of a religion like Christianity". Which is true.

[CrimsonWeltall]

You're ignoring that people like Dawkins want to change people's minds. It's not just what he personally believes, he's trying to start a movement (and has for a while). That's my point. In that sense, it's just as much of a religion as Christianity. It's going beyond a mere belief into something of a practice based on those beliefs.

 

How does trying to change peoples' minds make it a religion?

 

To use my example earlier. A geologist would surely try to change the minds of the Thor worshippers and get them to accept the scientific explanation for earthquakes in favor of their religious explanation, but that doesn't make the geologist religious himself.

[StrangeSox]

How does trying to change peoples' minds make it a religion?

 

To use my example earlier. A geologist would surely try to change the minds of the Thor worshippers and get them to accept the scientific explanation for earthquakes in favor of their religious explanation, but that doesn't make the geologist religious himself.

 

Hell, to make it completely non-religious, there's often very strong disagreements and differing interpretations at the edge of all fields.

 

Look at plate tectonics as an example. Wegener came up with the theory in the early 20th century, but the idea was largely ridiculed and dismissed until the 1960's until we had a better understanding of the sea floor. Were the beliefs of either side "religious"?

[Jenksismyhero]

Come on, you guys keep using these terrible analogies to topics that have nothing to do with the origin of man. That's a huge component of what is/is not "religious."

[Soxbadger]

Come on, you guys keep using these terrible analogies to topics that have nothing to do with the origin of man. That's a huge component of what is/is not "religious."

 

Believing or not believing in evolution does not make you a Christian or an atheist.

 

Perhaps you meant the beginning of the universe?

 

And in that respect, I have no answer. It is possible that human intelligence is so limited that we will never be able to truly understand the universe or its beginning.

[StrangeSox]

Come on, you guys keep using these terrible analogies to topics that have nothing to do with the origin of man. That's a huge component of what is/is not "religious."

The origin of the universe, of life on earth or of homo sapien sapiens are not inherently religious topics, nor does atheism have anything specific to say about them other than maybe "they weren't supernatural events."

 

edit: Answering "how did the universe start?" with "I don't know" isn't a religious answer. You can answer "why is man here" with a philosophical answer.

Edited June 9, 2014 by StrangeSox

[CrimsonWeltall]

Come on, you guys keep using these terrible analogies to topics that have nothing to do with the origin of man. That's a huge component of what is/is not "religious."

 

The existence of humans is just one of many things that religions often try to explain.

 

A scientific explanation for human existence isn't a religion just because it concerns that topic.

[farmteam]

At first I was abstractly confused how a school shooting thread had about 80% posts discussing the definition of "religion."

 

Then I remembered that there's been so many shootings recently that of course it was going to evolve into something else, because talking about the shootings in general has been done too many times already. Sad day.

[Brian]

Pepper spray is against the weapons policy? I'd think that pepper spray or mace would be fairly commonly possessed on college campuses, particularly by female students.

 

Agree.

[EvilMonkey]

Agree.

The student handbook I found online doesn't specify that they are banned (although it does specify water balloon slingshots?), but it references a Washington State regulation about weapons where it says that mace and pepper spray may be considered weapons, depending on the circumstances. pretty vague.

[greg775]

I sent the Seattle hero a gift off their Target wedding registry. A 50 buck coffee maker. Since I couldn't buy him a cup of coffee in thanks for his heroism, I sent the coffee maker. Now I am having second thoughts that I may have done something stupid/improper. Hope they accept my gift. There was no opportunity to leave a card.

[Quin]

I sent the Seattle hero a gift off their Target wedding registry. A 50 buck coffee maker. Since I couldn't buy him a cup of coffee in thanks for his heroism, I sent the coffee maker. Now I am having second thoughts that I may have done something stupid/improper. Hope they accept my gift. There was no opportunity to leave a card.

 

Not stupid at all, this is incredibly kind and thoughtful of you.

[greg775]

Not stupid at all, this is incredibly kind and thoughtful of you.

Thanks, Quin. I truly was starting to second guess my move in this regard.

[witesoxfan]

The student handbook I found online doesn't specify that they are banned (although it does specify water balloon slingshots?), but it references a Washington State regulation about weapons where it says that mace and pepper spray may be considered weapons, depending on the circumstances. pretty vague.

 

Seems to me that if you use it in an aggressive fashion, randomly going up to strangers and spraying it in their face, it would be considered a weapon and act of violence, but if someone were to attack you and you used it against them, it's a matter of self-defense.

 

Again, we want more of it, but less of it, which is where the conundrum lies.

[RockRaines]

We were both describing the same thing, despite using words that seem opposed. Everyone holds countless beliefs to varying degrees of certainty. I believe there's some dijon mustard in my fridge. This doesn't constitute a religion.

If you believe that the mustard is a supreme deity, it may be.

[cabiness42]

I dont see what the relevance is. Some people may follow atheism in a religious structure, not sure how that is relevant to anything. The comment was atheism is as much as a religion as Christianity, which is simply not true.

 

By definition I am an atheist, but there is no "religion" that I subscribe to. The reason is that my belief is not immutable. It is my best attempt at an answer today, but it does not define me at all. Its entirely irrelevant to who I am. Its no more important than any of my other ideas.

 

The exact same thing can be used to describe many Christians.

[Soxbadger]

The exact same thing can be used to describe many Christians.

 

Im not sure that they are actually Christians then. In order to be a Christian you have to believe in things like Jesus, etc. The closest comparison to atheist is a deist, and a deist would not be a Christian.

[greg775]

Back to the original topic. Another shooting today...So now it's a weekly occurrence. At this rate, these horrific incidents truly will start eliciting yawns and no coverage edicts from the national media.

So sad Obama is in charge right now of a horribly violent country in which people are killing each other left and right so to speak.

"Any time. Any place" is the new motto for murder in America. Schools pretty much are known for shootings as much as education. Soon as we get one of these sprees in a sports stadium that isn't called "soccer" and the face of sports will change forever.

How can Obama be so silent when we're getting at least one of these incidents a week now???

 

http://news.yahoo.com/police-gunman-kills-...-170534882.html

[farmteam]

Seems to me that if you use it in an aggressive fashion, randomly going up to strangers and spraying it in their face, it would be considered a weapon and act of violence, but if someone were to attack you and you used it against them, it's a matter of self-defense.

 

Again, we want more of it, but less of it, which is where the conundrum lies.

I think this is correct. Typically the law looks at "deadly weapons" contextually. Take a screwdriver. It has a perfectly legitimate intended purpose most of the time. But you could still kill someone with it, and in those instances it would be a "deadly weapon."

[Y2HH]

Back to the original topic. Another shooting today...So now it's a weekly occurrence. At this rate, these horrific incidents truly will start eliciting yawns and no coverage edicts from the national media.

So sad Obama is in charge right now of a horribly violent country in which people are killing each other left and right so to speak.

"Any time. Any place" is the new motto for murder in America. Schools pretty much are known for shootings as much as education. Soon as we get one of these sprees in a sports stadium that isn't called "soccer" and the face of sports will change forever.

How can Obama be so silent when we're getting at least one of these incidents a week now???

 

http://news.yahoo.com/police-gunman-kills-...-170534882.html

 

Actually, sorry to correct you, but this is a daily occurrence that occurs multiple times per day.

 

And once again, the country is STILL less violent today than it was 5, 10, 20, and 25 years ago, so whether you like it or not, progress has been made.

 

You've now shown, MULTIPLE times in these threads that you subscribe to the, "If a tree falls in a forest and I didn't see it, hear it or read about it, it didn't fall" mentality.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Y2HH

[LittleHurt05]

Actually, sorry to correct you, but this is a daily occurrence that occurs multiple times per day.

 

And once again, the country is STILL less violent today than it was 5, 10, 20, and 25 years ago, so whether you like it or not, progress has been made.

 

You've now shown, MULTIPLE times in these threads that you subscribe to the, "If a tree falls in a forest and I didn't see it, hear it or read about it, it didn't fall" mentality.

 

The country is much less violent than 10-20 years ago. Much of that is due to the explosion in violence in inner cities in the 80s & 90s due to the crack epidemic. NYC hit nearly 2,000 murders a year, now they are around 500. Even Chicago had nearly twice as many murders in the 90s than they do now. If you simply compared the 10 most populous cities in America, I'm sure that makes up the bulk of your murder rate decrease.

 

While the large cities are becoming much, much safer, these random mass shootings in low crime areas might be becoming more commonplace. To be honest I don't have data to know if these shootings happened as much in the 90s and they just weren't talked about as much, but I wonder.

[StrangeSox]

The country is much less violent than 10-20 years ago. Much of that is due to the explosion in violence in inner cities in the 80s & 90s due to the crack epidemic. NYC hit nearly 2,000 murders a year, now they are around 500. Even Chicago had nearly twice as many murders in the 90s than they do now. If you simply compared the 10 most populous cities in America, I'm sure that makes up the bulk of your murder rate decrease.

 

While the large cities are becoming much, much safer, these random mass shootings in low crime areas might be becoming more commonplace. To be honest I don't have data to know if these shootings happened as much in the 90s and they just weren't talked about as much, but I wonder.

 

there's a pretty good case to make that the main driver of the crime wave was actually lead exposure